wixman1884 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Give Martin a full season under McClaren and he will score 20+ goals. I have no doubt in my mind about that. He would have scored a shed load more in his 2nd season if wasn't injured for half of it. Using his record under clement/wassall isn't really useful because they aren't currently managing the club. Gonna have to pull out the old angry @toddy meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Imagine if you will that we've somehow made it to the playoff final and are 1-0 up at Wembley in the 94th and final minute of the game, playing the dirty Leeds. Stupidly, our boys have all rushed forward and now Leeds are breaking. On the halfway line Chris Woods flicks the ball past Keogh and will have a clear run on the Derby goal. However, Keogh has the chance to block him and take him out, accepting he'll be red carded for it. I would be appalled if Keogh did not commit the foul and win us promotion. Many would call it cheating. Leeds fans would be outraged. But for me he'd be doing the right thing for his employer. Imagine if we had Chris Wood on loan at Derby, we had a penalty in the last minute of the last game to secure us promotion at the expense of his parent club Leeds, who otherwise will go up instead of us. He quite deliberately boots it into the stand meaning we miss out and Leeds go up. That ok with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: Imagine if we had Chris Wood on loan at Derby, we had a penalty in the last minute of the last game to secure us promotion at the expense of his parent club Leeds, who otherwise will go up instead of us. He quite deliberately boots it into the stand meaning we miss out and Leeds go up. That ok with you? Not in the slightest, but I wouldn't be surprised. If it realistically came to that situation, iwikldnt let him take it. Even if he didn't miss deliberately, there'd be so much going through his head, that he'd be likely to take a crap peno anyway. It would be more interesting if a rule was introduced that the person who wins the penalty has to take it (which I think should be a thing, by the way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 hours ago, toddy said: I will do it for you then.... Season 13/14 - 25 goals Season 14/15 - 21 goals Season 15/16 - 15 goals Season 16/17 - currently on 11 goals There is a pattern here........ Surely goals per game would be a better measure, 14/15 he missed the last 3 months and 16/17 he has spent periods on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 14 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Why not? Please, the hypothetical refers to the last day of the season, not The play offs, so why on earth wouldn't martin be in the squad for Fulham for that game?? Because I didn't think his contract allowed him to play against his parent club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: Because I didn't think his contract allowed him to play against his parent club? The situation isn't Fulham playing against derby though, its if Fulham winning their last leave game denies derby finishing in the top six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: The situation isn't Fulham playing against derby though, its if Fulham winning their last leave game denies derby finishing in the top six. OH! I've misinterpreted the original scenario! My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Surely goals per game would be a better measure, 14/15 he missed the last 3 months and 16/17 he has spent periods on the bench Shhh don't let facts get in the way! Its not just goals though, it's the goals he creates/assists for others and the simple job of being able to keep the ball in the final third Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 24 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: OH! I've misinterpreted the original scenario! My bad. I wasn't having a gi at you in particular, there were a load of posts saying the same, although perhaps I should've been clearer and the original a bit clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, TuffLuff said: Shhh don't let facts get in the way! Its not just goals though, it's the goals he creates/assists for others and the simple job of being able to keep the ball in the final third All well and good but we need a midfield that can create before a ball goes in the final third and then we need midfielders with pace to be able to get into the final third. The problems within this team/squad are far bigger than Martin not being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Surely goals per game would be a better measure, 14/15 he missed the last 3 months and 16/17 he has spent periods on the bench Toddy doesn't do context… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Surely goals per game would be a better measure, 14/15 he missed the last 3 months and 16/17 he has spent periods on the bench Not many players manage to play in every game during a season because of injuries/sub etc - so the standard measure of a players goals has always been total scored at the end of a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, toddy said: Not many players manage to play in every game during a season because of injuries/sub etc - so the standard measure of a players goals has always been total scored at the end of a season. Standard measure?....Doesn't seem very flexible....What if they are injured for half a season l?.....Surely a goals per game is far more representative? Did you get a chance to see how vydras stats adds up in comparison to Martin's etc over the past few years toddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, toddy said: Not many players manage to play in every game during a season because of injuries/sub etc - so the standard measure of a players goals has always been total scored at the end of a season. Oh wasn't aware of that. Vydra having a bit of a shocker then only 3 goals in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Last night was a good example of what he does so well. Lump the ball up to him and he. An either hold it up or win a free kick. Either way it eases the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, toddy said: Not many players manage to play in every game during a season because of injuries/sub etc - so the standard measure of a players goals has always been total scored at the end of a season. No it isn't? The standard measurement of a players goal scoring ability is goals to minutes played. You'd be stupid to base a judgement on a player on just his goals scored at the end of a season. Imagine basing Kelechi Iheanacho's score rate around goals scored. The lad barely plays 10 games a season for Man City but manages to get 6-7 goals. That's an incredible return. You can't judge a player on just his goals scored. You have to look at his minutes on a pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Oh wasn't aware of that. Vydra having a bit of a shocker then only 3 goals in a season. Completely agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, RamsPolls said: No it isn't? The standard measurement of a players goal scoring ability is goals to minutes played. You'd be stupid to base a judgement on a player on just his goals scored at the end of a season. Imagine basing Kelechi Iheanacho's score rate around goals scored. The lad barely plays 10 games a season for Man City but manages to get 6-7 goals. That's an incredible return. You can't judge a player on just his goals scored. You have to look at his minutes on a pitch. Most records relating to a strikers goal scoring record are based on goals scored per season and then collectively at the end of his career usually as goals scored, they may also mention % of goals to games if the striker is prolific IE Shearer's record. Don't see many records of a strikers careers goal tally per season then divided up into minutes on a pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, toddy said: Most records relating to a strikers goal scoring record are based on goals scored per season and then collectively at the end of his career usually as goals scored, they may also mention % of goals to games if the striker is prolific IE Shearer's record. Don't see many records of a strikers careers goal tally per season then divided up into minutes on a pitch? I think your mixing up records and ability and arguing different points. Goals scoring records are goals over a season. Goal scoring ability is goals scored per minutes played. Player a scores 20 goals but plays 23 games player b scores 21 goals but plays 45 games. player b would get the award but I'd argue player b had been more productive and was potentially the better player hope that makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 56 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: I think your mixing up records and ability and arguing different points. Goals scoring records are goals over a season. Goal scoring ability is goals scored per minutes played. Player a scores 20 goals but plays 23 games player b scores 21 goals but plays 45 games. player b would get the award but I'd argue player b had been more productive and was potentially the better player hope that makes sense? Player A you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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