Regardless of opinion…

[Cool As Custard]

4 hours ago, sage said:

SDSR has reported the players are 'disgusted' and thought yesterday was a 'shambles'. I have heard (almost) from the horse's mouth that one of the departees was glad to get away from Derby as the atmosphere at Moor Farm was toxic.

Unhappy players don't make for high performing players. 

If this is true it's going to be a long hard season. This player power and lack of respect for the manager was clear under both Clement & Wassall - just remember Shackall at Rotherham away as one example. In a battle of wills there will only be one winner and that is the manager. I can see certain over paid prima donnas being banished to train with the kids by NP if they don't toe the line. 

We now have a manager who is tackling it head on and will sort it out long term but it might get worse before it gets better. We need committed players who will get behind the manager, buy into his ideas and show commitment for the shirt. If they do that I'm happy. ?

[SaintRam]

29 minutes ago, Tombo said:

As someone that felt Mac deserved the sack over the Newcastle frenzy, I have to now admit I was totally wrong. He definitely deserved to start the next season.

Have to add though that in a similar vein, Pearson deserves to finish this season as a minimum

Has to start next as a minimum as well in my view. 

If we go by a "lets see how a manager does in his first season" we'll have a new manager every season for the 20, Mels clearly buying into whatever NPs plan is. And I can't imagine its a one season job.

It's kind of exciting though, having this change.

Ive been supporting pretty much the same group of players for the past 4 years.

[NewhallRam71]

As a lightener to the mood today, I don't know if this podcast has ever been mentioned on this forum before (be gentle, I'm relatively new, was previously on another forum but came on here after listening to the excellent podcast) but I'd recommend that you check out a podcast called 'The Magic Sponge' with Jimmy Bullard. Its on iTunes and elsewhere.

Its basically Jimmy, a comedian, and special guests reminiscing about football. Beware though, adult language and stories!

You may find it interesting to listen to Season 1, Episode 5 where the guest is non other than old ram Craig Fagan. He and Jimmy give an interesting insight into Big Nige having played under him at Hull.

If you like the pod, make sure you listen to the Dean Windass one also.

Mods, hope I'm ok to plug another non-Rams podcast?

[cannable]

2 hours ago, NewhallRam71 said:

As a lightener to the mood today, I don't know if this podcast has ever been mentioned on this forum before (be gentle, I'm relatively new, was previously on another forum but came on here after listening to the excellent podcast) but I'd recommend that you check out a podcast called 'The Magic Sponge' with Jimmy Bullard. Its on iTunes and elsewhere.

Its basically Jimmy, a comedian, and special guests reminiscing about football. Beware though, adult language and stories!

You may find it interesting to listen to Season 1, Episode 5 where the guest is non other than old ram Craig Fagan. He and Jimmy give an interesting insight into Big Nige having played under him at Hull.

If you like the pod, make sure you listen to the Dean Windass one also.

Mods, hope I'm ok to plug another non-Rams podcast?

I gave that a listen mate! Quite interesting! Shat it when Craig Fagan gave him grief! 

I also liked the bit about the naked bench-press 

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Has to start next as a minimum as well in my view. 

If we go by a "lets see how a manager does in his first season" we'll have a new manager every season for the 20, Mels clearly buying into whatever NPs plan is. And I can't imagine its a one season job.

It's kind of exciting though, having this change.

Ive been supporting pretty much the same group of players for the past 4 years.

But what if he's clearly making a mess of it after 1 season.  I think if he finish in the bottom half, playing dull football, NP can't really complain if he gets the sack.  It's a brave chairman that would allow him a second attempt the following season.  Although to talk of sacking him before the end of the season, isn't fair in my opinion.

[maxjam]

Dunno whether what I'm reading is true or not (about there being a poor atmosphere at Derby) but I do know what I've witnessed on the pitch this season and its been woeful - being outplayed is one thing, showing a lack of desire is another.  Bar a few exceptions they have let themselves and the fans down.

If it takes a season or so for Pearson to get the rotten core out of the club then so be it - short term pain, long term gain 'n all that.  We'll be a better club at the end of it.

 

 

[JAT]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but it's safe to say 'The Derby Way' changed or evolved as soon as we brought in a manager rather than a coach! It changes everything about how the club is ran so from that point we should expect other things, including the development of the squad and individuals to change.

I also don't believe the philosophy of 'The Derby Way' was that strong as when Mel was first quoted saying it, the most common response was, "wtf is the Derby way".

For me the Derby way should be to employ staff, both playing and backroom that go above and beyond expectation. That their commitment to the club, for however long they stay could not be questioned. Whichever way we go about recruiting those characters, whether that be through an academy process or acquiring them with money doesn't matter.

Styles of play change just as much as fashionable formations. The football world has gone through 442, 443, 352, 4231 and it seems back to 442. Basically we copy whatever the last World or European champions have been successful with. But what tends to stand the test of time is teams that are successful have the right mindset and that is what Pearson has been clear about changing since he came through the doors at Moor Farm.

Only time will tell if the evolved Derby Way will be a successful one. 

[angieram]

I just want to thank @cannable for starting this thread, that has some of the more reasoned debate about the current mood amongst Derby supporters. 

Some posters are firmly in the Pearson's right, everything's rosy camp and some in the we're doomed camp and I have found it really hard to empathise with either.

What I do know is at the moment I feel sad at seeing the start of the break up of the team I've loved watching, and very apprehensive about what will replace it. 

I feel a bit let down by the apparent change in direction - on a recent tour of the Training Centre the Derby Way and the philosophy of what that means was still being sold to us punters.

What I have seen on the pitch so far this season (and I've seen every competitive match) only adds to my apprehension. I haven't generally seen players not trying, rather players trying and failing to get to grips with what they are being asked to do.

This doesn't mean that I want to believe that Pearson hasn't got the means to change things up and eventually get us playing with much more flair and attacking intent. It's early days yet.

I'm also encouraged by the signings - if not the departures - over the last few days.

I want to be able to express both my doubts and more optimistic hopes equally without having to be completely sold on one or the other, or shouted down by either side.

In another thread people are debating whether it's too early to hear from the club about our direction. I feel it's always good to hear from the club - the more communication the better. Without it, speculation and wild theories become the currency of the day. 

So, it's been really helpful to read through this thread and find others feel similarly. Thank you.

 

[GboroRam]

Well it's peculiar to hear so many people complaining about the demise of the Derby Way, considering how much it was ridiculed on here when it was first mentioned. 

[PodgeyRam]

12 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Well it's peculiar to hear so many people complaining about the demise of the Derby Way, considering how much it was ridiculed on here when it was first mentioned. 

If you were to do a survey you'd probably find that those mourning it on here are the onees who supported it in the first place and vice versa.

[cannable]

11 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Well it's peculiar to hear so many people complaining about the demise of the Derby Way, considering how much it was ridiculed on here when it was first mentioned. 

To be fair, most of those complaining wern't particularly open minded, were they? 

[RIMBAUD]

And had little idea what TDW was...

(what is it btw?)

[JAT]

7 minutes ago, RIMBAUD said:

And had little idea what TDW was...

(what is it btw?)

When Clough had the reigns he always said about bringing players in with the right mentality. Hence why players like Bryson, Paul Green and even Connor Sammon came in. They work/ed hard! He made a few mistakes and he quickly moved those players on, some didn't even get chance to kick a ball!

When Steve came in he had more room for signings, however they still enforced players being carefully vetted before brought in.

Pearson came in and he's also keen on mindset.

The only coach who didn't seem to focus on that was Clement and he was sacked for not following 'The Derby Way'.

So could we assume TDW is based on mentality as much as style of play?

[IlsonDerby]

19 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

Not this rubbish again. Players always put in the effort, you have to be mad to think they don't. Do you think they enjoy losing? Of course they don't. They are all extremely proud people who become the most ridiculouly someptetive people on the planet once the whistle blows.

They were outplayed by a Nigel Clough team where everyone knew their jobs and did them down to perfection, whilst ours simply didn't because they aren't used to or suited to the system Pearson tried to play. None of this not trying stuff, just players looking confused. Instead of blaming the players effort, it makes me wonder what Pearson has been doing on the training pitch for 2 months that players he has seen from day one seem to have no understanding of the way he wants them to play.

 

Not this nonsense again. If you believe players go out and give 100% every game then you didn't watch Chelsea last season. Ask Mourinho if players always put in the maximum effort. I'm sure he'd have something to counter.

[Anag Ram]

We lost against Burton because we are susceptible to crosses from the wing and because we have reverted to playing with no tempo.

Derby on form would have taken them apart. We are currently well off form.

[Mafiabob]

10 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

We lost against Burton because we are susceptible to crosses from the wing and because we have reverted to playing with no tempo.

Derby on form would have taken them apart. We are currently well off form.

Or, we are not as good as we think? 

[Kennington Ram]

Just now, Anag Ram said:

We lost against Burton because we are susceptible to crosses from the wing and because we have reverted to playing with no tempo.

Derby on form would have taken them apart. We are currently well off form.

I think all three signings were about tempo and speed. Vydra and Anya have always  played lightning fast at Watford, and Wilson appears to be quite quick too.

I guess this is why Pearson likes Bryson so much.

[duncanjwitham]

26 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said:

I think all three signings were about tempo and speed. Vydra and Anya have always  played lightning fast at Watford, and Wilson appears to be quite quick too.

I guess this is why Pearson likes Bryson so much.

Tempo and speed are completely different things.  Speed is running quickly in a straight line, tempo is moving the ball quickly and accurately.  This side, in the way Pearson is lining them up, will never play with tempo because the players are too spread out and too static - the defenders and midfield are too deep and the forwards and too far forward.  To play with tempo you need players close by, in space, to pass to.

[Kennington Ram]

Just now, duncanjwitham said:

Tempo and speed are completely different things.  Speed is running quickly in a straight line, tempo is moving the ball quickly and accurately.  This side, in the way Pearson is lining them up, will never play with tempo because the players are too spread out and too static - the defenders and midfield are too deep and the forwards and too far forward.  To play with tempo you need players close by, in space, to pass to.

Fair enough. I think we'll still play with some tempo if teams are sitting back against us, we've still got the players to do that (Hughes, Keogh, Butterfield, Thorne do what you describe very well).

Unfortunately I don't think anyone's going to bother doing that until we're an intimidating side to play again though.

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said:

Fair enough. I think we'll still play with some tempo if teams are sitting back against us, we've still got the players to do that (Hughes, Keogh, Butterfield, Thorne do what you describe very well).

Unfortunately I don't think anyone's going to bother doing that until we're an intimidating side to play again though.

You can't do it with just 2 or 3 players though.  We played with tempo under McClaren because, as well as the midfield 3, we had Martin dropping off, Keogh and Buxton showing for the ball  and Dawkins/Ward/Russell drifing in-field.  You need lots of passing options otherwise it becomes very easy to stop.  If we're loading up on players like Vydra, Ince, Camara, Anya etc, they aren't going to do that, it's just head down and run towards the opponents goal.  So the midfield 2 are going to pick up the ball, the front 4 all start making runs in behind and the midfielder has no one to pass to.  So we go long and lose it, or go backwards.

I can't see our game plan this season being anything other than punt it over the top and hope a forward gets on it. 95% of the time they won't (because they're all small and lightweight) so we lose possession.  Then try and win it back as quickly as we can (which will be difficult because we're out numbered in midfield) and then punt it forwards again.  We just going to have to hope that the 5% of times they do get on it produces enough goals to out-weight the goals we're going to concede because our defence is under continual pressure.