International Rams

[DRBee]

8 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Maybe it's down to how Rowett plays him?

Exactly.... but the blind-faithers won't ever get this. (It's the way he gets the whole team to play, not just Lawrence )

[Curtains]

2 hours ago, DRBee said:

Exactly.... but the blind-faithers won't ever get this. (It's the way he gets the whole team to play, not just Lawrence )

Blind to the fact we are 7th with a game in hand with Thorne coming back and CM on a role. 

[Curtains]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Maybe it's down to how Rowett plays him?

It’s that all you can come up with .  We are 7th with a game in hand and won 4 out the last 5 and lost 1 in 8 games. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Now,I quite like Lawrence and there is lots of  potential there...

But Gary,you think he's better than tom ince??

Mind you,he would say that I suppose...he can hardly say anything else.

 

[Day]

Potential being the key word here, nowhere in the article did it say Lawrence is better than Tom Ince now. 

"I know what he has got. Long-term for the club, I think he will be a better all-round player than the ones we let go, in my opinion. I think we will see that”

"Tom is 23 and he has great potential, which is why we brought him in,"

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manager-gary-rowett-says-derby-770466

[Curtains]

Tom Ince had his detractors at Derby it must be remembered 

[Mr Tibbs]

Has this potential thing for 23 year olds always been the case or are we just making excuses for players nowadays? Or is it purely because there’s less opportunity for these players in the top leagues when they’re younger? 

A couple of decades ago players hit the ground running at 18/19, not a decade into their careers. 

Not a dig at Lawrence inperticular, just a thought. My minds clouded by the likes of Owen, Shearer, Beckham etc who were PL class at a very young age. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, curtains said:

It’s that all you can come up with .  We are 7th with a game in hand and won 4 out the last 5 and lost 1 in 8 games. 

What has that got to do with Lawrence not reproducing his form for Wales for us? Is it all you can come up 'Rowett can do no wrong?!'

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What has that got to do with Lawrence not reproducing his form for Wales for us? Is it all you can come up 'Rowett can do no wrong?!'

Is that a direct quote from me.  

[angieram]

5 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Has this potential thing for 23 year olds always been the case or are we just making excuses for players nowadays? Or is it purely because there’s less opportunity for these players in the top leagues when they’re younger? 

A couple of decades ago players hit the ground running at 18/19, not a decade into their careers. 

Not a dig at Lawrence inperticular, just a thought. My minds clouded by the likes of Owen, Shearer, Beckham etc who were PL class at a very young age. 

I think it's a factor in their later development, yes. Tom was at Leicester so his opportunity came on loan at Ipswich . I think that he took that chance well. 

He's now at a club with bigger expectations and in many matches a lot less room to play in, despite what some think! 

If you compare to Tom Ince, who had a real early chance and took it, he had to come back down to the Championship to rebuild his confidence after struggling in the Prem. I think he left us a better all round player than he joined us and I think Tom Lawrence if given some time will develop in a similar way. But he is starting that journey from a less experienced position.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

14 hours ago, mozza said:

Why can he not do that for us? 

Because he was playing as an attacking midfielder for Wales...he is played out on the wing for derby.

[May Contain Nuts]

It's a nice goal but you've got to consider the opposition. A Championship defender may well have put him in the stand after his first touch, and done better at closing him down in general.

Perhaps though we would see something more along those lines if Lawrence's role was more rigid, if he spent the majority of his time out wide on the left and cutting inside to shoot at will. 

We've been there and done that with that tactic though, it doesn't get you anywhere as team. I'm glad that we're no longer set up to allow one player's abilities to ride roughshod over everyone else's.

I just wish that the system to replace that didn't lean quite so heavily on what is, at times, little more than defensive minded, doggedly determined dross.

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

It's a nice goal but you've got to consider the opposition. A Championship defender may well have put him in the stand after his first touch, and done better at closing him down in general.

Perhaps though we would see something more along those lines if Lawrence's role was more rigid, if he spent the majority of his time out wide on the left and cutting inside to shoot at will. 

We've been there and done that with that tactic though, it doesn't get you anywhere as team. I'm glad that we're no longer set up to allow one player's abilities to ride roughshod over everyone else's.

I just wish that the system to replace that didn't lean quite so heavily on what is, at times, little more than defensive minded, doggedly determined dross.

Dross what makes you say stuff like that. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

It's a nice goal but you've got to consider the opposition. A Championship defender may well have put him in the stand after his first touch, and done better at closing him down in general.

Perhaps though we would see something more along those lines if Lawrence's role was more rigid, if he spent the majority of his time out wide on the left and cutting inside to shoot at will. 

We've been there and done that with that tactic though, it doesn't get you anywhere as team. I'm glad that we're no longer set up to allow one player's abilities to ride roughshod over everyone else's.

I just wish that the system to replace that didn't lean quite so heavily on what is, at times, little more than defensive minded, doggedly determined dross.

Fair enough comment from what I have seen up to now.....but here's hoping it improves with time

[Curtains]

Tom Lawrence has been a whisker away from scoring and has done well for Derby since he signed. 

[cannable]

3 hours ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Has this potential thing for 23 year olds always been the case or are we just making excuses for players nowadays? Or is it purely because there’s less opportunity for these players in the top leagues when they’re younger? 

A couple of decades ago players hit the ground running at 18/19, not a decade into their careers. 

Not a dig at Lawrence inperticular, just a thought. My minds clouded by the likes of Owen, Shearer, Beckham etc who were PL class at a very young age. 

Potential in football is, to me, nothing more than finding a position and role in the correct system over the course of your career in which they can perform to the best of their abilities. 

Hughes looked better as a seventeen year old than a 22 year old because Clough made him the main man in midfield, not because he ‘stagnated’.

[Dimmu]

If he comes close to Ince's, never mind of Hughes', level he'll be great. So far it's only potential tho.

He might actually become a better all-around player. IMO modern football is about specific skills matching with a playing style and position... I wouldn't mind playing like Ajax though, great all-around players each one of them.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 hours ago, curtains said:

Tom Lawrence has been a whisker away from scoring and has done well for Derby since he signed. 

He is a good player and absolute no criticism of him from me in his time with us....if anything it's the way he has been utilized that's the issue.

Nowhere near the standard up to now of either Tom ince or Hughes,up to now,with us however,depending on whether he's seen as a midfielder or winger.

I would have liked to see him play under McLaren....I think he could have got the best out of him.

[Curtains]

44 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

He is a good player and absolute no criticism of him from me in his time with us....if anything it's the way he has been utilized that's the issue.

Nowhere near the standard up to now of either Tom ince or Hughes,up to now,with us however,depending on whether he's seen as a midfielder or winger.

I would have liked to see him play under McLaren....I think he could have got the best out of him.

I think you are doing Rowett a disservice to be honest and I see no reason why he won’t get the best out of Tom .

I also disagree about him not being up to the standard of Ince and Hughes .

Ince was often berated by Derby fans and Hughes is still making his way in the game  after injury problems.  

Hughes is a totally different type of player to Lawrence .

 

[PodgeyRam]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

I think you are doing Rowett a disservice to be honest and I see no reason why he won’t get the best out of Tom .

I also disagree about him not being up to the standard of Ince and Hughes .

Ince was often berated by Derby fans and Hughes is still making his way in the game  after injury problems.  

Hughes is a totally different type of player to Lawrence .

 

Every player gets berated by Derby fans, it doesn't mean they are all of similar quality. Ince also had to contend with having an unfair reputation for not working hard and father who everyone hates.

I think the stats speak for themselves about quality.

Tom Ince: 25 years old - 272 apperences 75 goals. That's a goal every 3.6 games. 

Tom Lawrence: 23 years old - 123 appearences 19 goals. That's a goal every 6.5 games. 

There's nothing wrong with him not being up to the standard of Ince and Hughes. They were outstanding Championship players.

I fail to see the evidence for people suggesting he's up to their standard.