toddy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Simply because they are not good enough. If we had have won promotion last season, do you seriously think we would have those players mentioned as first team players or do you reckon we might have done a Watford and blasted £70 million and bought some quality. We all love our team but you also have to be realistic on how good the individuals actually are, they are playing in the championship for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Good or Bad?.....I've just done the ironing and the hoovering and I'm currently contemplating on doing a bit of weeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 1 hour ago, LanguedocFox said: I read somewhere that City are interested in Hughes, though I can't find where that was (maybe imagining it - you know what I'm like). Certainly we've got the kind of fitness/sports science set-up that might enable him to get and stay fit, and from the little I've seen he looks like a good player. I have a feeling that Pearson might want to try and sign Matty James, who's a defensive midfielder, to play alongside Hughes, but what do I know. I don't think there is much wrong with his general fitness. He just picked up a nasty injury at the start of the season that could happen to anyone and the best "fitness/sports science" set-up in the world couldn't have prevented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: From your list..... Martin, Bryson, Russell, Johnson and Keogh are all championship players, not good enough at all for the top division, if we go up all of them would either be sold or would be subs. Ince, Weimann and Thorne have all had their chance in the top division and failed to make any impact, if you aren't good enough for West Brom, Hull or Villa then you aren't going to get a move to Everton anytime soon are you? That's a very narrow minded view… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: From your list..... Martin, Bryson, Russell, Johnson and Keogh are all championship players, not good enough at all for the top division, if we go up all of them would either be sold or would be subs. Ince, Weimann and Thorne have all had their chance in the top division and failed to make any impact, if you aren't good enough for West Brom, Hull or Villa then you aren't going to get a move to Everton anytime soon are you? Thorne was 21 when he left WBA, having been injured for a year. Weimann DID perform well for Villa (but still was only 24 when he joined us and they were all sad to see him go), just didn't perform better than the likes of Benteke to avoid being played out of position in a team that only played with one striker. The biggest culprit of the 3 is Ince and even then he was in at a club that didn't use any formations that had his position in them. You're right, we would have to spend A LOT when we go up, but if you think that equals a squad overhaul you're mental. I'd say half of, maybe just over, our current strongest XI would have new people signed ahead of them and have to step-up their game to get their place back. Don't put it past anyone to improve their game anbd actually perform in the prem, regardless of their age. ******* Wes Morgan lifted the ******* trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Tbh I think only some of our players are of premier league quality. Those players for me are Hughes,Thorne,Carson, Keogh,Shackell and maybe Forsyth. Christie would be in this list if he has another season like last season. Hendrick's linked with a few premier league clubs and played well in the euros, which is a higher level than the prem so I guess you could say him too, although I'm not convinced he would be consistent enough. The rest of our players would look out of place in the prem IF they went to a premier league club in my opinion, I'm not talking about if they get promoted with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Ram@Lincoln said: Bryson is 29. How old do you think he is? Thought he'd turned 30, apologies. The point is, nobody would stump up the £3m we'd ask for a who'll have 2 good years left in him. And who's never played in the top flight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 8 hours ago, SaintRam said: Also a lack of media chatter does not equal a lack of interest. Following on from @Srg's point, I'd imagine a lot of our players are on a lot of shortlists, but teams see more accessible targets elsewhere. We've been informed that Keogh, for example, was on Newcastle's shortlist. So why did they buy Hanley, who is worse than Keogh? Because they'd have to pay even further over the odds for Derby to accept a Keogh offer than they did for B'burn to accept the Hanley offer. But Newcastle are NOT in the Premier League any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Srg said: Because we're not an easy target. We have decent players who are all under contract and are under no pressure to sell. Teams see others as softer targets before us. Are these players not ambitious and hungry enough to want to play with the best in the PL because their Championship contracts are too cushy?......I am thinking of Bryson here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Definitely a good thing. a team of average players can perform well a group of individuals can't I'm not saying our players are average, but a lot would struggle to play in most other sides systems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 39 minutes ago, Grantona said: Are these players not ambitious and hungry enough to want to play with the best in the PL because their Championship contracts are too cushy?......I am thinking of Bryson here. Wanting to and teams being able to pay the money the club which owns the contract wants are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Grantona said: Are these players not ambitious and hungry enough to want to play with the best in the PL because their Championship contracts are too cushy?......I am thinking of Bryson here. 3 Years on £20,000, likely to be reduced had he been relegated with Burnley. 5 years on £20,000, with promotion bonus'. Easy choice really for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Bradley Johnson has played a lot of PL football hasn't he? He's not looked like a world beater at this level. It's the Premier League. West Bromwich, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Watford, Bournemouth, Leicester with all time Championship top scorer Jamie Var... what? 21? In 2 seasons? 16 in promotion season? But he's Premier League poty? It's not El Classico. Of course we have players good enough for the PL!! Was only a while back when Ibe was doing more damage for Liverpool than what he did for more than half his time here. You can mould a PL team out of our squad. And if Pearson does then I can see a few people on here being gutted the way they like to write of individuals because a team didn't get promotion. I can even see old donkey Martin who's fat and slow managing to survive on the same pitch as Premier League stars Damien Delaney and Chamakh. Do you really think there's tens of millions of pounds difference between the better players down here and the middle of up there? Between individual blokes? You think Lee Cattermole had so much more talent than Craig Bryson? It's a team sport. And if our players fit into a PL clubs style and they are prepared to chuck money at a financially strong, well equipped and strongly supported Championship club chasing promotion then they will come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I'd like to get Joe Ledley and Jeff Hendrick head to head in a test of speed, reaction, strength, stamina, passing range I'm expecting that with Ledley being a super premier league titan that he'd destroy Hendrick in every department?? Be like Neymar vs Red Dawn such is the vast chasm between individual players between the two levels. But I suspect Ledley has and will play at that level because of the purpose he serves within a team. Release Hendrick and a PL side will take him. A better side than Burnley. Why don't they buy? Because they have to weigh up his value to what they can get elsewhere. It's not a case of him not being "Premier League standard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertRam Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The only difference between our team and the PL is CONSISTENCY, you can't go missing or have a breather for 5 minutes, its give your all every match, if we can leave everything on the pitch, every game, we'll get there this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 If we go up, and IMHO, only the following would be prem material: Carson Keogh, Fozzy and maybe Christe (defensive lapses) and Shackle (due to age) Thorne, Hughes, Hendrick. and maybe Butters Ince And that is' about it. But we are not there yet. let see how this season pans out. But in all honesty, I think it is time to move away from Martin, as he only offers us one way of playing. So it would be good to get some one of equal quality but different attributes and have Martin as our Ulloa as he is to Fester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Gypsy Ram said: If we go up, and IMHO, only the following would be prem material: Carson Keogh, Fozzy and maybe Christe (defensive lapses) and Shackle (due to age) Thorne, Hughes, Hendrick. and maybe Butters Ince And that is' about it. But we are not there yet. let see how this season pans out. But in all honesty, I think it is time to move away from Martin, as he only offers us one way of playing. So it would be good to get some one of equal quality but different attributes and have Martin as our Ulloa as he is to Fester. That's nearly a whole teams worth. Would be good to draw a lower-mid prem side in a cup to test ourselves against. We haven't looked anywhere near the top end ones that we've played over past few seasons. See how we square up to the new Watford or Bournemouth for example. I realise cup football isn't the same as league but it's the closest proxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 If promotion not achieved very soon, time is running out for the likes of Bryson, Keogh, Shackell and Martin to play PL football.. None of them are spring chickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, Grantona said: If promotion not achieved very soon, time is running out for the likes of Bryson, Keogh, Shackell and Martin to play PL football.. None of them are spring chickens. It comes down to money I would imagine. I know some players have more desire than others to play at the top level but they are only human. Derby seem to pay pretty good wages so why uproot your family and move your life if the financial gain isn't a significant leap? I can't see a club like Burnley even if they are in the Premier League paying better wages that we have got our best players on. If more established clubs start coming in for these players then I understand but that's not a problem that has presented itself yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, Grantona said: If promotion not achieved very soon, time is running out for the likes of Bryson, Keogh, Shackell and Martin to play PL football.. None of them are spring chickens. You never know. Damien Delaney was a regular for Palace last season at centre back and he's 35 so there's still hope for Keogh and Shackell even if they don't make it this season. Martin is only 27 so he's still got a few years to get there and lets be honest, he isn't someone who relies heavily on pace. As for Bryson, he does rely a lot on his fitness so maybe you're right about him, but there's a few examples of older centre mids similar to Bryson who are still playing regularly in the Prem, Fletcher, Britton etc. so never say never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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