Hodgson Resigns - Next England Manager?

[McRamFan]

18 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Benitez couldn't save a better Newcastle squad. He's more highly regarded. Do you think Wenger could've done the things Allardyce has done? starting with poor teams and not spending massively to achieve. Wenger inherited a quality squad, and revolutionised the game in this country, but it's since overtaken him and he's been left behind. Allardyce has evolved.

May have evolved but not enough. Your point is right about Wenger, he has gone as far as he can, so has Allardyce.

It matters little as the problem is the FA.

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, McRamFan said:

May have evolved but not enough. Your point is right about Wenger, he has gone as far as he can, so has Allardyce.

It matters little as the problem is the FA.

I totally disagree. When has Allardyce been given the chances that Wenger has? When Allardyce has been allowed to spend £40m+ on players, whilst already having players of similar value, then perhaps he can be judged equally, but he hasn't, so he can't.

[G STAR RAM]

13 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Oh forgot Bolton won the title and all those cups and consistently finished in the top six.

As I said in an earlier post, if you only judge a managers success by how many times he has won a league and a cup then you are blinkered and have no concept of relativity.

[Mostyn6]

24 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

As I said in an earlier post, if you only judge a managers success by how many times he has won a league and a cup then you are blinkered and have no concept of relativity.

AND, there would only be a handful of managers worthy.

[Rampage]

Allardyce would have done better than we did in France if he had been made manager, one day before the Iceland match. Playiing against Iceland is meat and drink to Sam. 

[G STAR RAM]

31 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

AND, there would only be a handful of managers worthy.

...none of whom are English!

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Blinkered view if you think winning a league or cup is the only measure of achievement.

Look at what Allardyce did with Bolton and West Ham. Look how he saved Sunderland. All success stories.

His only real failure was Newcastle.

What is wrong with building a team around a target man? Maybe building a team where we play to individuals strengths is a better idea than just picking 11 good players and hoping it works?

Arguably, West Ham was a success (promotion followed by a consolidation) and then an ultimate failure as he failed to progress the team to where the chairmen and the fans wished to go. They have since performed at a higher level- or been more successful if you will (although not winning anything).

HIs Sunderland stint was not like a Benitez - he had most of the season (including a transfer window) to get them playing and away from the bottom. People have a tendency to define great escapes by the last 7 or 8 games, whilst forgetting that a whole pile of previous crap (quite a bit of which had sam in charge) got them there. I imagine that if Sam serves up another season where Sunderland languish in the bottom 3 for a large part and then perform another great escape act then that will not be seen as "success" when looked at across the piece.

To be clear - I do not have a problem with him being considered, but as one of a list of candidates and at present all we are hearing about is Sam. Most of my criticism is not aimed at Sam per se but at the 3 so called wise men.

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

I totally disagree. When has Allardyce been given the chances that Wenger has? When Allardyce has been allowed to spend £40m+ on players, whilst already having players of similar value, then perhaps he can be judged equally, but he hasn't, so he can't.

If he was that good he would have been hired by a top six club somewhere in Europe, and given the big budget.

He is a good solid manager, just not good enough for the England job.

[Red_Dawn]

Sam Allardyce, but couldn't give a **** to be honest

[McRamFan]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

As I said in an earlier post, if you only judge a managers success by how many times he has won a league and a cup then you are blinkered and have no concept of relativity.

So wanting a manager that is a proven winner is being blinkered to not wanting one who is a survivalist?

Was Sam in the frame for the Man U job, Chealski or even Everton?

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

So wanting a manager that is a proven winner is being blinkered to not wanting one who is a survivalist?

Was Sam in the frame for the Man U job, Chealski or even Everton?

Proven winners like Erikkson and Capello you mean?

Allardyce is not just a survivalist, he took Bolton to 5th in the Premier League and into Europe...do you not see that as any sort of achievement?

He probably wasn't hired because of the negative stigma attached to his football...which incidentally was created by the likes of Ferguson and Wenger when their world beaters were losing to Bolton.

I have no idea which jobs he has been considered/interviewed for I'm afraid.

[ramsbottom]

I reckon there's a lot of truth in what he said about not getting a top job because his surname isn't Alladicini.  People look at him, his name, his accent, the fact he doesn't look great in a suit and think he's a dinosaur.  If he had achieved Bolton's success with say, Reading or Charlton (both teams in the division the season Bolton went up in '95) then you imagine a lot of the south (fans, press, other clubs) wouldn't have viewed him a gobby Northerner and he'd have gotten better opportunities.  The sad truth is that football is more image conscious than ever and if your face doesn't fit a particular club's brand/image you won't get a chance.  Everybody loves Eddie Howe because he's a nice, Southern boy but he hasn't achieved half of what Sam has...

[McRamFan]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Proven winners like Erikkson and Capello you mean?

Allardyce is not just a survivalist, he took Bolton to 5th in the Premier League and into Europe...do you not see that as any sort of achievement?

He probably wasn't hired because of the negative stigma attached to his football...which incidentally was created by the likes of Ferguson and Wenger when their world beaters were losing to Bolton.

I have no idea which jobs he has been considered/interviewed for I'm afraid.

When have I mentioned any past manager? You are just trying to crowbar stuff to prove your point.

Bolton, one off, every dog has its day. West Ham, bigger club, more cash failed to replicate it on a bigger stage.

I think people can see past managers sour grapes blaming the long ball game beat them.

So we should hire him to the England job as he had a one off decent run at West Ham and got Sunderland out of a hole?

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

When have I mentioned any past manager? You are just trying to crowbar stuff to prove your point.

Bolton, one off, every dog has its day. West Ham, bigger club, more cash failed to replicate it on a bigger stage.

I think people can see past managers sour grapes blaming the long ball game beat them.

So we should hire him to the England job as he had a one off decent run at West Ham and got Sunderland out of a hole?

You haven't mentioned last managers, you said we should hire a 'proven winner' and I gave you examples of 2 proven previous winners that England hired.

If you think Allardyce only had a one off decent run I can only suggest you do a bit of research into his managerial career and try and use a bit of context against of what he was up against. How are Bolton doing now?

I think he should be considered for employment by England because he has attributed which I think the national team needs:-

1 - A good man motivator 

2 - Plays to his players strengths

 

[Shang]

I couldn't disagree if Allardyce got the job. Seems to be the kind of manager that identifies the strengths of players and manages to make use of limited time given to him. Would I want to see him play every week? Probably not, but he gets teams playing as a cohesive unit, with a strong defence in a very short amount of time as we've seen with his relegation rescues.

[Highgate]

Another reason to give Allardyce the England job would be that we wouldn't have to listen to him moan about never getting the England job.  Maybe that was his strategy all along ! 

[Day]

5 hours ago, ramsbottom said:

Everybody loves Eddie Howe because he's a nice, Southern boy but he hasn't achieved half of what Sam has...

Sam Allardyce - 61 years old with a free bus pass

1x League of Ireland title
1x Division 2 title
2x Championship play off win

1x Championship manager of the month
6x Premier League manager of the month

In 22 years.

Eddie Howe - 38 years old

1x Championship title
1x League 1 runner up
1x League 2 runner up

1x Football League manger of the decade
2x Championship manager of the months
1x LMA manager of the year
1x LMA Championship manager of the year

In 8 years.
 

[Van der MoodHoover]

It would be a departure by the FA to appoint someone whose greatest successes appear to be those achieved 15-20 years ago with Bolton.

All other appointments in recent times seem to be one of 2 types.

Either managers with recent club successes (eriksson won Scudetto and Coppa Italia with Lazio immediately prior to England, Capello won La Liga with Real before being sacked for dull football and becoming England manager).

Or insiders - Maclaren and Southgate before he ruled himself out.

I think the last time the appointment was on the basis of presumed man management skills it was Keegan, which was unsuccessful.

I am still not seeing what it would be that makes Sam Allardyce a compelling choice. Worthy of an interview, ok - but a slam dunk for the role on the basis of some decent club work in the last century? No.

[ramsbottom]

1 hour ago, David said:

Sam Allardyce - 61 years old with a free bus pass

1x League of Ireland title
1x Division 2 title
2x Championship play off win

1x Championship manager of the month
6x Premier League manager of the month

In 22 years.

Eddie Howe - 38 years old

1x Championship title
1x League 1 runner up
1x League 2 runner up

1x Football League manger of the decade
2x Championship manager of the months
1x LMA manager of the year
1x LMA Championship manager of the year

In 8 years.
 

Howe is an excellent coach, not debating that.  I was merely pointing out that image counts for a lot these days, Big Sam isn't a Guadiola but he'd have had more high profile opportunities if he was a thin, bluepeyed boy.  I guess his nickname doesn't help either.  I don't think Howe would be able to get them playing his type of football when he's only got a few weeks a year.  Whereas Sam could give us a set way of playing in limited time cus he's a good organiser.  It's the same reason I doubt Wenger or Martinez would do very well, getting teams to play nice, fluid tikka-tikka takes a lot of time developing.

[Alex W]

7 hours ago, David said:

Sam Allardyce - 61 years old with a free bus pass

1x League of Ireland title
1x Division 2 title
2x Championship play off win

1x Championship manager of the month
6x Premier League manager of the month

In 22 years.

Eddie Howe - 38 years old

1x Championship title
1x League 1 runner up
1x League 2 runner up

1x Football League manger of the decade
2x Championship manager of the months
1x LMA manager of the year
1x LMA Championship manager of the year

In 8 years.
 

Unfair to use that as a comparison when much of his time has been spent at unfashionable outfits in the Prem, getting Bolton into the Europa League (or equivalent back then), his work with saving West Ham, his Sunderland work etc. His Blackburn efforts weren't bad either, only the Newcastle job tarnishes his reputation any.

Few of these will reward him with medals or trophies but I'd certainly put some of those above Howe's work when he has been heavily financed at Bournemouth since League One. I believe their wage bill was higher than ours under Nigel while they competed in League One to get out and failed, those figures came out as Southampton achieved what they did and people put the finances of some teams under the scope.

Howe has done an excellent job but he has always had the finances to do it. For whatever reason at Burnley where times were less financially brilliant he struggled. 

Despite this I'd rather look towards Howe and his play style than someone like Allardyce who I don't personally believe has a brand of football that could deliver any sort of success internationally. It's just unfair to judge him on those stats when many accomplishments of worth can't be detailed alongside it all. I'd actually go for Bruce but he won't get it, I've admired his management and tactical style for a long time. Nothing fancy by a long stretch but more effective and open to passing football/formation changes than many. Hull flipped between a 3-5-2 and a 4-3-3 a lot this year, good to see him trying things.