Bris Vegas Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: again... you get me every time... Where every Ram and his dog think it's to do with Shackell and Keogh (improving) and Christie getting back to form, and the signing of Bradley Johnson and Butterfield that the pre-christmas results were good, you think somehow it's because Bent isn't playing and Martin is! The same reason why Swansea haven't had a 'play on the shoulder' striker for the past seven years. Bent doesn't suit the team, and his sheer presence created a massive void last season, which was proven on many occasions how we simply couldn't build from the back. No coincidence that with Martin we broke clean sheet records last season, and as soon as Bent came in we shipped goals left right and centre. Team shape had disappeared the moment he joined. Similar to when Kuqi left, and we swapped him with Luke Moore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 14 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: again... you get me every time... Where every Ram and his dog think it's to do with Shackell and Keogh (improving) and Christie getting back to form, and the signing of Bradley Johnson and Butterfield that the pre-christmas results were good, you think somehow it's because Bent isn't playing and Martin is! 12 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: The same reason why Swansea haven't had a 'play on the shoulder' striker for the past seven years. Bent doesn't suit the team, and his sheer presence created a massive void last season, which was proven on many occasions how we simply couldn't build from the back. No coincidence that with Martin we broke clean sheet records last season, and as soon as Bent came in we shipped goals left right and centre. Team shape had disappeared the moment he joined. Similar to when Kuqi left, and we swapped him with Luke Moore. As much as Iove a bit of Bris-bashing I've been saying this for ages... Bent is a great striker but Martin adds much more defensively than Bent (or it seems Blackman) do... "I striker adding to defence? Are you mad?"... Yeh I hear you... But it's a simple answer: Hold up play When the ball gets whacked out of defence Martin holds onto the ball longer than Bent... Allowing the midfield to get out and the defence to re-organise... with Bent up top on his own the ball comes back towards our defence much much sooner, less time to get sorted and therefore more chance of conceding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: As much as Iove a bit of Bris-bashing I've been saying this for ages... Bent is a great striker but Martin adds much more defensively than Bent (or it seems Blackman) do... "I striker adding to defence? Are you mad?"... Yeh I hear you... But it's a simple answer: Hold up play When the ball gets whacked out of defence Martin holds onto the ball longer than Bent... Allowing the midfield to get out and the defence to re-organise... with Bent up top on his own the ball comes back towards our defence much much sooner, less time to get sorted and therefore more chance of conceding... Good point, also I've lost count the amount of times Martin clears a ball from a corner with his head at the near post. Blackman it seems has been told to stay up the pitch for breakaways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, cheron85 said: As much as Iove a bit of Bris-bashing I've been saying this for ages... Bent is a great striker but Martin adds much more defensively than Bent (or it seems Blackman) do... "I striker adding to defence? Are you mad?"... Yeh I hear you... But it's a simple answer: Hold up play When the ball gets whacked out of defence Martin holds onto the ball longer than Bent... Allowing the midfield to get out and the defence to re-organise... with Bent up top on his own the ball comes back towards our defence much much sooner, less time to get sorted and therefore more chance of conceding... 6 minutes ago, Shang said: Good point, also I've lost count the amount of times Martin clears a ball from a corner with his head at the near post. Blackman it seems has been told to stay up the pitch for breakaways. I would agree if I hadn't seen the goals conceded and how the contributory factors were mistakes that, IF also made when Martin was playing, would've made your arguments nonsense, as the goals would have been scored regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 47 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: I would agree if I hadn't seen the goals conceded and how the contributory factors were mistakes that, IF also made when Martin was playing, would've made your arguments nonsense, as the goals would have been scored regardless. You understand how that statement is totally redundant right? IF Martin was playing and IF those mistakes were made still THEN you'd have a point... Seems a very odd argument... Since it's fairly easy to argue that Martin's presence/ability to hold up the ball means that the defence had longer to organise themselves and therefore with more time are less prone to mistakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't think the way we are playing really suits Martin either, he is more isolated than he has ever been before, he always had midfield runners going past him and around him who he linked up with, the midfield 3 under Clement play deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkeggyRam Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, emjlc02 said: I don't think the way we are playing really suits Martin either, he is more isolated than he has ever been before, he always had midfield runners going past him and around him who he linked up with, the midfield 3 under Clement play deeper. yeah the way we play has totally nullified Martin, the amount of times Martin shows for the ball to feet and doesnt receieve is unreal. and the amount of crosses we put in is pointless, if hes going to play that way why havent we signed a striker who will win headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Ridiculous to let Bent go. If Martin or Blackman get injured then it will be Russell or Weimann. Brilliant idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: You understand how that statement is totally redundant right? IF Martin was playing and IF those mistakes were made still THEN you'd have a point... Seems a very odd argument... Since it's fairly easy to argue that Martin's presence/ability to hold up the ball means that the defence had longer to organise themselves and therefore with more time are less prone to mistakes? so Martin's absence is the reason Lee Grant punched the ball into his own net? Okay, so why do people slate Grant if it was Bent's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: so Martin's absence is the reason Lee Grant punched the ball into his own net? Okay, so why do people slate Grant if it was Bent's fault? *sigh* yes... that's exactly what I'm saying... Just pointing out the logical inconsistency in your statement... And that overall a lot of mistakes can be cut out by the defence having more time to organise themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: *sigh* yes... that's exactly what I'm saying... Just pointing out the logical inconsistency in your statement... And that overall a lot of mistakes can be cut out by the defence having more time to organise themselves... but the mistakes were not organisational, they were technical and mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: but the mistakes were not organisational, they were technical and mental. And people were making mistakes because (at least in part) they were put under considerably more pressure than earlier in the season. Mainly because we weren't retaining possession in midfield and forward areas, and the root cause of that was the loss of Martin and Thorne/Omar/Eustace. And add that to a downward spiral of confidence (people losing confidence, so making mistakes, so losing more confidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 36 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: but the mistakes were not organisational, they were technical and mental. You're falling into the trap in thinking the whole game would have panned out exactly the same way and those mistakes would have been made regardless of who was playing upfront. That's totally wrong. Bent's sheer presence changed the whole dynamics of the game. We lost possession a lot more, recieved far more shots on average and were much more open. It's also no coincidence that in Martin's absence we scored more goals too. Bent, without doubt, is a good goalscorer. We went from a team winning 2-0 comfortably, to one drawing 2-2, 3-3 and 4-4. But gone are the days when people assume strikers only have to score goals and do nothing else to warrant their place in the side. It's a team game after all. I compared the two last season in a thread which illustrated exactly how Martin posts more touches, passes, headers, tackles, ball recoveries and assists per match than Bent. Don't get me wrong, I come across as if I don't like Bent and that's not the case. He just doesn't fit the mould of a 4-3-3 and the way we play. That's no slight on him, he's just in the wrong team. I'm sure he could thrive in a 4-4-2 or a variation of 4-3-2-1 where there are one or two playmakers behind him willing to thread in through balls and get him playing on the shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Of course, completely different mistakes could have been made and we could be even worse off. Who gives a ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 4 hours ago, emjlc02 said: I don't think the way we are playing really suits Martin either, he is more isolated than he has ever been before, he always had midfield runners going past him and around him who he linked up with, the midfield 3 under Clement play deeper. Agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Has he gone get..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 4 hours ago, emjlc02 said: I don't think the way we are playing really suits Martin either, he is more isolated than he has ever been before, he always had midfield runners going past him and around him who he linked up with, the midfield 3 under Clement play deeper. I wonder whether the way we play doesn't suit 4-3-3 either. You isolate the striker and potentially the wingers too if your central midfield plays too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 we certainly seem to have lost that magical fluid movement that we had off to perfection in the latter part of the season where we lost the play-off final..we looked unbeatable at times and the football was a pleasure to behold.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor1946 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 i thought this thread was about Bent ,leaving Why i aint seen him play yet.. I understood a striker needed game time to build confidence ,and why is Russell and Weiman ,sneered at ,a brilliant idea indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Has he gone get..? Gone to get what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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