StringerBell Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 hour ago, Highgate said: Not Trump anyway....which is one reason why he shouldn't say it. But now it's been said and there are police officers saying its true then dismissing it as nonsense is something that also shouldn't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 hour ago, StringerBell said: I've not heard of any street gangs exercising cultural control that would be as widespread as Muslim culture so, though these areas might exist, they might be consigned to a building or a compound rather than streets and communities. I also suspect that such gangs aren't plotting world domination like Islamists are. But you and me sound about as informed as Trump does so, again, who knows? If the Birmingham one is the one I'm thinking of then that was when all the virtue signallers showed how not racist they aren't by calling Fox News bigoted and having a big, superior laugh about it. I mean it wasn't the best piece of journalism ever but surely the bigger issue for Britons would be the fact that parts of Birmingham are quite possibly well on the way to becoming "no go". Why do these virtue signallers complain about someone saying its "no go" when they could complain about the Trojan Horse scandal in the same city? Or that the same Fox News report made similar remarks about Paris which are, well, effectively true. Katie Hopkins is right in some things and wrong on some things but she's certainly not respected by the public. Although I do respect her right to free expression which many of her detractors don't. Those people bother me a hell of a lot more than a troll like Hopkins and I expect they're the same sort of virtue signallers who lile to play racist top trumps (I'm on a roll). Anyway, back to Trump. No matter how illiberal his solution might be it hasn't come out of a vacuum. The state of the world has helped form it. I reiterate that Obama has no solution and I don't think Clinton or Sanders do either. If I was a yank, no matter how I shudder at the thought of banning a religious group from entry, and no matter how impractical his plan may turn out to be, I might consider voting Trump at this early stage. It's a 'man with a plan' vs 'this has nothing to do with Islam'. They're both as extreme as each other. Cultural control is not the issue that apparently makes police officers fear for their lives though, is it? Trump is calling into question the very essence of the United States - the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment (I don't understand how this is less important than the Second amendment) - but then those that shout loudest about freedom all too often mean their own restricted, narrow version of it. Trump's version is anything but inclusive and internationalist. It's isolationist unless it involves attacking outsiders, it is undoubtedly a white christian version of freedom, it is exclusive - it demonises and ridicules those that are not one of his and is not extended to those on the outside. People are afraid. Soon people will join with Trump because they are afraid of the consequences of being on the outside. It has happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 12 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Cultural control is not the issue that apparently makes police officers fear for their lives though, is it? Trump is calling into question the very essence of the United States - the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment (I don't understand how this is less important than the Second amendment) - but then those that shout loudest about freedom all too often mean their own restricted, narrow version of it. Trump's version is anything but inclusive and internationalist. It's isolationist unless it involves attacking outsiders, it is undoubtedly a white christian version of freedom, it is exclusive - it demonises and ridicules those that are not one of his and is not extended to those on the outside. People are afraid. Soon people will join with Trump because they are afraid of the consequences of being on the outside. It has happened before. To the first point, yes - If the culture includes a lack of respect at best and outright hostility at worst for the law of the land and those that enforce it. The police in question have effectively said that they are going into areas in which they have no control due to the culture in question not acknowledging British law. That's precisely what's happened in several parts of France. Going into areas to restore order to a population aggressive to the objective? Isn't that a job for the armed forces? And though free trade and open(ish) borders are the hallmarks of a liberal society I reiterate what I've said earlier on this thread that sometimes ideals take a backseat to pragmatism. People may well join Trump for the reason you have given. I've no doubt there are a lot of racists in the U.S. using this as a pretext. However, they may well join Trump instead because nobody else is actually doing anything. The left have failed on the topic of Islam. And they continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 It's all just history repeating. Economic crash, everyone's lives are a little bit shitter, someone nutter uses the opportunity to grab power by finding a common enemy to blame for all your woes. Hitler, 'you can't afford a loaf of bread? Those Jews over there can, they must be up to something' 88% of normally fair minded people voted him in. In hard times, people go extreme. Russia - hard times - far left - Stalin. Even here, economic crash, oh, look, everyone's voting UKIP all of a sudden. And that's happening all over Europe. And in the Middle East (and marginalised areas of the west) the Muslims go extreme too. Extremism begets extremism. Ironically, it's not the Muslims, or the immigrants that have caused our current strife. It's the greedy capitalists. But I'm a greedy capitalist, so I'm not likely to point the finger at myself. Oh, thank **** for that, Jonny foreigner blew up a plane, quick, look over there, it's all their fault. Build a wall, kill them all, reduce the price of oil, and round and round and round it goes. It's a stupid bloody game, that no one needs to be playing. But stupid bloody human beings don't know how to stop. Rant over. PS By the way, do you Donald knows his name means fart in English. And did anyone see the hair vs hair match in WWE. **** me, ladies and gentlemen, I give you your next president of the u item states of America. PPS if the POTUS is the most powerful man on the planet, why don't we all get to vote for him. Why do I have to be held at the whim of a madman that's been voted for by a bunch of toothless hicks from buttfuck Alabama? It's hardly democratic is it. Now I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, StringerBell said: To the first point, yes - If the culture includes a lack of respect at best and outright hostility at worst for the law of the land and those that enforce it. The police in question have effectively said that they are going into areas in which they have no control due to the culture in question not acknowledging British law. That's precisely what's happened in several parts of France. Going into areas to restore order to a population aggressive to the objective? Isn't that a job for the armed forces? And though free trade and open(ish) borders are the hallmarks of a liberal society I reiterate what I've said earlier on this thread that sometimes ideals take a backseat to pragmatism. People may well join Trump for the reason you have given. I've no doubt there are a lot of racists in the U.S. using this as a pretext. However, they may well join Trump instead because nobody else is actually doing anything. The left have failed on the topic of Islam. And they continue to do so. What police? This is conjecture. It's also contradictory - you don't need to restore order in a muslim area. There is already order. What you are talking about is not restoring order but restoring something else. But I don't know what. The fear that's driving Trump's popularity is more than the fear of terrorist attack. People who apparently see their own culture (religion?) as so feeble as to see attacks on it from every shadow. But never mind - they have big mother funner automatic weapons and a well-regulated militia to fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 5 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: It's all just history repeating. Economic crash, everyone's lives are a little bit shitter, someone nutter uses the opportunity to grab power by finding a common enemy to blame for all your woes. Hitler, 'you can't afford a loaf of bread? Those Jews over there can, they must be up to something' 88% of normally fair minded people voted him in. In hard times, people go extreme. Russia - hard times - far left - Stalin. Even here, economic crash, oh, look, everyone's voting UKIP all of a sudden. And that's happening all over Europe. And in the Middle East (and marginalised areas of the west) the Muslims go extreme too. Extremism begets extremism. Ironically, it's not the Muslims, or the immigrants that have caused our current strife. It's the greedy capitalists. But I'm a greedy capitalist, so I'm not likely to point the finger at myself. Oh, thank **** for that, Jonny foreigner blew up a plane, quick, look over there, it's all their fault. Build a wall, kill them all, reduce the price of oil, and round and round and round it goes. It's a stupid bloody game, that no one needs to be playing. But stupid bloody human beings don't know how to stop. Rant over. PS By the way, do you Donald knows his name means fart in English. And did anyone see the hair vs hair match in WWE. **** me, ladies and gentlemen, I give you your next president of the u item states of America. PPS if the POTUS is the most powerful man on the planet, why don't we all get to vote for him. Why do I have to be held at the whim of a madman that's been voted for by a bunch of toothless hicks from buttfuck Alabama? It's hardly democratic is it. Now I'm done. That might be a part of it. That's not the whole story though. Gays aren't being thrown from buildings because some Muslims are brassic. Was Trump in WWE? I hope he had a tag team with Ted Dibiase. I'm glad the U.S. Are as powerful as they are considering the other options. The only alternative to POTUS being too powerful (besides global anarchism) I can think of would be to amalgamate all countries. Like the EU..... In which toothless hicks from buttfuck Alabama would have a say over laws in Britain. Is that more or less democratic? I see it as every country has equality of opportunity in the market place but not parity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 9 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: What police? This is conjecture. It's also contradictory - you don't need to restore order in a muslim area. There is already order. What you are talking about is not restoring order but restoring something else. But I don't know what. The fear that's driving Trump's popularity is more than the fear of terrorist attack. People who apparently see their own culture (religion?) as so feeble as to see attacks on it from every shadow. But never mind - they have big mother funner automatic weapons and a well-regulated militia to fight back. I'm aware its conjecture. It's the conjecture of people claiming to be police officers. In the news. Restoring the order that is supposed to be in place as opposed to the order that is in place then. I wouldn't claim, patriarchy say, isn't a form of order. Theocracy is also a form of order. The wrong one. To fear more than terrorist attacks? As well they should. I fear jihad. I probably fear Islamism more. Don't you? Have you not seen some of the polls about Muslims views on things like apostasy, homosexuality and women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 What concerns me more than anything is.... are all the people in Alabama buttfucks or just a few? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 24 minutes ago, StringerBell said: I'm aware its conjecture. It's the conjecture of people claiming to be police officers. In the news. Restoring the order that is supposed to be in place as opposed to the order that is in place then. I wouldn't claim, patriarchy say, isn't a form of order. Theocracy is also a form of order. The wrong one. To fear more than terrorist attacks? As well they should. I fear jihad. I probably fear Islamism more. Don't you? Have you not seen some of the polls about Muslims views on things like apostasy, homosexuality and women? I work with Muslims every day. Many of them from all over the world. I am not afraid of them. Have you seen some non-Muslim views on the same topic? Christians? Heavyweight boxers? Despicable reactionary views are not restricted to Muslims. Why isn't Trump suggesting banning from the US wackos that shoot up high schools or kill people outside abortion clinics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 29 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: I work with Muslims every day. Many of them from all over the world. I am not afraid of them. Have you seen some non-Muslim views on the same topic? Christians? Heavyweight boxers? Despicable reactionary views are not restricted to Muslims. Why isn't Trump suggesting banning from the US wackos that shoot up high schools or kill people outside abortion clinics? I never said awful views were restricted to Muslims. But overwhelming evidence would point towards such views being more common. And your perception of Muslims doesn't mean much in the great big scheme of things. Note how I haven't said I've had lots of trouble with Muslims and therefore I don't like them - the inverse of what you just said. Why isn't Trump suggesting that the U.S. bans its own citizens? The answer is in the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McMinn Football Genius Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Why is it I have never witnessed (at any time) Donald Trump and Boris Johnson in the same room at the same time....... Could it be they are one and the same person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 On 9 December 2015 at 04:58, ramsbottom said: I'm actually petrified of this lunatic having his finger of the button. And before everyone says it will never happen, just remember Bush Jnr. Bar New York, Chicago, and the West Coast, America is mostly full of God fearing inbreds who'll vote for the person who stirs up the most patriotic rhetoric. We're doomed... Apologies to @AmericanRam if you don't live in the above mentioned areas don't count California in that....it is worse there than most places in the country. The worry would be that what started off as a joke or a publicity stunt is actually gathering momentum, the funny thing is that when you speak to people over here not one person is actually going to vote for him, but a lot of people are saying that "at least he is a change from the norm" and IF he gets through and has to run against Hillary....now that could be interesting, as much negative feeling towards her as positive I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 5 hours ago, MuespachRam said: don't count California in that....it is worse there than most places in the country. The worry would be that what started off as a joke or a publicity stunt is actually gathering momentum, the funny thing is that when you speak to people over here not one person is actually going to vote for him, but a lot of people are saying that "at least he is a change from the norm" and IF he gets through and has to run against Hillary....now that could be interesting, as much negative feeling towards her as positive I would say. It astounds me that a man with such a terrible wig can rise to such a position of wealth and power... ONLY IN AMERICA!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 2 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: It astounds me that a man with such a terrible wig can rise to such a position of wealth and power... ONLY IN AMERICA!!! what about Bruce Forsyth then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 http://youtu.be/UZ1L013k5Hw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 10 hours ago, StringerBell said: The left have failed on the topic of Islam. And they continue to do so. The "left" have not been in government in the UK for nearly 40 years, so i'd be interested to know how the left have failed on Islam. I believe our governments have failed miserably on dealing with radical Islam, from hate preachers in Mosques to fundamentalists in prisons being allowed to rule the roost, but from Thatcher, Major, Blair, to Cameron, i'm struggling to see how its the "lefts" fault. Please don't try and convince anyone that Blair was on the left! So, the last 36 years, we've had 23 years of Conservative rule with 13 years of New Labour sandwiched in between. You have valid points in the way we have allowed militant Islamists to openly preach their medieval hate agenda but this has been ignored/tolerated by right wing governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 25 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: The "left" have not been in government in the UK for nearly 40 years, so i'd be interested to know how the left have failed on Islam. I believe our governments have failed miserably on dealing with radical Islam, from hate preachers in Mosques to fundamentalists in prisons being allowed to rule the roost, but from Thatcher, Major, Blair, to Cameron, i'm struggling to see how its the "lefts" fault. Please don't try and convince anyone that Blair was on the left! So, the last 36 years, we've had 23 years of Conservative rule with 13 years of New Labour sandwiched in between. You have valid points in the way we have allowed militant Islamists to openly preach their medieval hate agenda but this has been ignored/tolerated by right wing governments. that's a point worth making, Tony Blair was a brought up a Tory and his old man was a Tory, hence the centre ground of the so called new labour, cannot see the socialist leader who made another error of judgement yesterday lasting long. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12044641/Jeremy-Corbyn-writes-letter-pleading-for-fraudster-Mohamed-Dahir-to-be-freed-for-Christmas.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 56 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: The "left" have not been in government in the UK for nearly 40 years, so i'd be interested to know how the left have failed on Islam. I believe our governments have failed miserably on dealing with radical Islam, from hate preachers in Mosques to fundamentalists in prisons being allowed to rule the roost, but from Thatcher, Major, Blair, to Cameron, i'm struggling to see how its the "lefts" fault. Please don't try and convince anyone that Blair was on the left! So, the last 36 years, we've had 23 years of Conservative rule with 13 years of New Labour sandwiched in between. You have valid points in the way we have allowed militant Islamists to openly preach their medieval hate agenda but this has been ignored/tolerated by right wing governments. Society as a whole has shifted away from traditional conservatism while political parties have become centrist. I could just as easily say don't try and convince me that the current conservatives are of the right. Try and have a conversation with somebody on the right about Islam. You could have tried at any point over the last 20 years at least. And you might possibly have had a constructive conversation. Try and do the same with someone who considers themselves of the left. You'll likely end up defending yourself from accusations of racism from somebody going full Michael Moore on you. And if not the conversation would surely be shifted to how it's all our fault anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 3 hours ago, LesterRam said: that's a point worth making, Tony Blair was a brought up a Tory and his old man was a Tory, hence the centre ground of the so called new labour, cannot see the socialist leader who made another error of judgement yesterday lasting long. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12044641/Jeremy-Corbyn-writes-letter-pleading-for-fraudster-Mohamed-Dahir-to-be-freed-for-Christmas.html That's nothing, its only a matter of time before Corbyn is personally responsible for the rise of Al Qaeda, Isis, the Twin Towers, London 2007, Stalin, Adolf Hitler, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and Simon Cowell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: That's nothing, its only a matter of time before Corbyn is personally responsible for the rise of Al Qaeda, Isis, the Twin Towers, London 2007, Stalin, Adolf Hitler, the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and Simon Cowell. The rise of the twin towers would actually be quite an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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