Giles Barnes

[Albert]

​You've sort of shot yourself in the foot there...

All of the players you mentioned are all past their peak and left to the US to continue their careers that they couldn't continue anywhere else. Jozy Altidore looked like a world beater in the MLS but then came on loan to Sunderland and looked incredibly average.

So, while the MLS is certainly a league on the rise, it's not one where stats prevail over playing ability. A reverse example is Bradley Wright Phillips, couldn't cut it in the Championship so left for the US where he is being hailed as an incredible talent and banging in goals left right and centre.

Giles Barnes had potential while he was with us but spending time playing in the MLS won't have developed him as a player that much. He's certainly not on the same level as other wide players we've been linked with ie. Ince, Weimann

​- Obafemi Martins was actually doing well for Levante and Seattle had to pay his buyout clause. 

- Robbie Keane was still scoring fairly consistently at Premier League level when he left to go to the MLS. If fact, I'd say he was doing better than Bent was before coming here

- Clint Dempsey Clint Dempsey proved himself to still be a good Premier League player when he left to return home, and he's still a very good player. If you offered me having him in the side this upcoming season I'd snap your hands off

 - Landon Donovan played his peak for LA Galaxy, and did well in his loans at Everton, they even wanted him back. He's retired now, but he was a good player

Also, it's worth noting that Jozy Altidore did not go from the MLS to Sunderland. He hadn't actually been in the MLS for 5 years at that point. It was his form for AZ in the Netherlands that earned him that move. He's only just returned to the MLS if I recall right, and he's doing alright, but it's early days for him. 

Good players can fail in different surroundings. It happens. Sometimes players who have previously struggled can suddenly become world beaters as well. Not to bring him up again, but Martin struggled before coming to us, even at Championship level, with his only near prolific season being in League One if I recall right. Barnes was already a quality player when he left us, with the vast majority of issues being fitness related, to say him not being fighting fit and performing well can be written off like that requires some massive missteps in logic. 

I really don't get the English arrogance about leagues not in Europe, leagues that aren't England, Spain, Germany or Italy. The MLS is actually not a bad quality of league in the slightest. It's not the Premier League, but there is some absolute class in the MLS, and not just geriatrics who want their last payday. Again, it's telling that one of the countries that always finds itself surprised by how they fail at every major tournament is so arrogant about the quality of the rest of the world. 

Barnes performing in the MLS is a better sign of a good player than us scouting out the SPL, League One or some journeyman from the Championship who scored 3 in 40 last season. He's performed well, and if the club are having a look at him, I'd trust their decision, although I honestly don't want him back for other reasons. 

[TheDeadlySaul]

​- Obafemi Martins was actually doing well for Levante and Seattle had to pay his buyout clause. 

- Robbie Keane was still scoring fairly consistently at Premier League level when he left to go to the MLS. If fact, I'd say he was doing better than Bent was before coming here

- Clint Dempsey Clint Dempsey proved himself to still be a good Premier League player when he left to return home, and he's still a very good player. If you offered me having him in the side this upcoming season I'd snap your hands off

 - Landon Donovan played his peak for LA Galaxy, and did well in his loans at Everton, they even wanted him back. He's retired now, but he was a good player

Also, it's worth noting that Jozy Altidore did not go from the MLS to Sunderland. He hadn't actually been in the MLS for 5 years at that point. It was his form for AZ in the Netherlands that earned him that move. He's only just returned to the MLS if I recall right, and he's doing alright, but it's early days for him. 

Good players can fail in different surroundings. It happens. Sometimes players who have previously struggled can suddenly become world beaters as well. Not to bring him up again, but Martin struggled before coming to us, even at Championship level, with his only near prolific season being in League One if I recall right. Barnes was already a quality player when he left us, with the vast majority of issues being fitness related, to say him not being fighting fit and performing well can be written off like that requires some massive missteps in logic. 

I really don't get the English arrogance about leagues not in Europe, leagues that aren't England, Spain, Germany or Italy. The MLS is actually not a bad quality of league in the slightest. It's not the Premier League, but there is some absolute class in the MLS, and not just geriatrics who want their last payday. Again, it's telling that one of the countries that always finds itself surprised by how they fail at every major tournament is so arrogant about the quality of the rest of the world. 

Barnes performing in the MLS is a better sign of a good player than us scouting out the SPL, League One or some journeyman from the Championship who scored 3 in 40 last season. He's performed well, and if the club are having a look at him, I'd trust their decision, although I honestly don't want him back for other reasons. 

​Conor Doyle plays up front for the top of the table side DC United and Jordon Stewart and Tyrone Mears play at full back for Seattle Sounders and they are top of the league.

A few good players doesn't hide the fact that the league is around the level of league one. 

[eddie]

A tad overboard there

​A tad thirsty.

You lot, especially @sageisback, were keeping me away from my beer. I'm better now - looking at the world through a Westmalle haze (which is the only way I can maintain this level of insanity).

[Day]

​I really don't get the English arrogance about leagues not in Europe, leagues that aren't England, Spain, Germany or Italy. The MLS is actually not a bad quality of league in the slightest. It's not the Premier League, but there is some absolute class in the MLS, and not just geriatrics who want their last payday. Again, it's telling that one of the countries that always finds itself surprised by how they fail at every major tournament is so arrogant about the quality of the rest of the world. 

How is it arrogance and what has our national sides performances in tournaments got anything to do with this?

The MLS is a poor league that will never attract any top players in their prime. It's full of washed up players that have failed elsewhere and a scattering top players looking for that final golden pay cheque.

It will never be a top league either because top players in their prime want to play in the Champions League, arrogant? No, it's the truth. 

Saying that there are other quality leagues around the world, just not the MLS or your beloved A League

[AmericanRam]

As one who has actually watched the MLS progress over past few years, I for one am happy with the direction it is going, but have admitted on several occasions on here that some things in its structure and how it does things, needs to be addressed before it gains some respect in world circles. I think one of those is having a promotion/relegation system with the NASL, but tbh most MLS owners do not want to do that. MLS from my perspective seem to want to make the league like the NFL and other similar ones and have like 30 teams. That is just too many for a single league imo.

I have never once said MLS was a great league with tons of great talent, but as a few have mentioned, it is better than it is given credit for. Some on here may never respect it and that's fine, that's their business. But in regards to world football circles as a whole, I do hope it will gain some more credibility. Will it ever be considered a top league? Well probably not I agree, but trust me I have watched it grow from what it used to be, and the progress it has made has been good.

Getting older known players has helped bring in fans, but yes to get more respect some younger talent will need to be had. But with the lure of European football, admittedly that will be hard to do without ridiculously overpaying for them to come to the MLS.

In closing, I will never back down from defending the MLS as a better league than people give it credit for. As I have admitted, I know it is not close to being a top league anytime soon by any stretch of the imagination, but as it is my national league I am hoping to see it gain more respect.

[StringerBell]

As one who has actually watched the MLS progress over past few years, I for one am happy with the direction it is going, but have admitted on several occasions on here that some things in its structure and how it does things, needs to be addressed before it gains some respect in world circles. I think one of those is having a promotion/relegation system with the NASL, but tbh most MLS owners do not want to do that. MLS from my perspective seem to want to make the league like the NFL and other similar ones and have like 30 teams. That is just too many for a single league imo.

I have never once said MLS was a great league with tons of great talent, but as a few have mentioned, it is better than it is given credit for. Some on here may never respect it and that's fine, that's their business. But in regards to world football circles as a whole, I do hope it will gain some more credibility. Will it ever be considered a top league? Well probably not I agree, but trust me I have watched it grow from what it used to be, and the progress it has made has been good.

Getting older known players has helped bring in fans, but yes to get more respect some younger talent will need to be had. But with the lure of European football, admittedly that will be hard to do without ridiculously overpaying for them to come to the MLS.

In closing, I will never back down from defending the MLS as a better league than people give it credit for. As I have admitted, I know it is not close to being a top league anytime soon by any stretch of the imagination, but as it is my national league I am hoping to see it gain more respect.

Do they still have those penalty run ups if there's a draw?  

[3232]

Can somebody please explain why he is so hated on here?

In my eyes it would be a good signing and cant understand it

[i-Ram]

​I didnt read your post, but im sure it was a load of bo11ocks

You were right. I need to learn from you JW. You are a genius who can compact so much bo11ocks into single sentences whereas I tend to drag it all out a bit. 

[StringerBell]

Can somebody please explain why he is so hated on here?

In my eyes it would be a good signing and cant understand it

Black. Stepovers.

[eddie]

Can somebody please explain why he is so hated on here?

In my eyes it would be a good signing and cant understand it

​Call me

[YorkshireRam]

​- Obafemi Martins was actually doing well for Levante and Seattle had to pay his buyout clause. 

- Robbie Keane was still scoring fairly consistently at Premier League level when he left to go to the MLS. If fact, I'd say he was doing better than Bent was before coming here

- Clint Dempsey Clint Dempsey proved himself to still be a good Premier League player when he left to return home, and he's still a very good player. If you offered me having him in the side this upcoming season I'd snap your hands off

 - Landon Donovan played his peak for LA Galaxy, and did well in his loans at Everton, they even wanted him back. He's retired now, but he was a good player

Also, it's worth noting that Jozy Altidore did not go from the MLS to Sunderland. He hadn't actually been in the MLS for 5 years at that point. It was his form for AZ in the Netherlands that earned him that move. He's only just returned to the MLS if I recall right, and he's doing alright, but it's early days for him. 

Good players can fail in different surroundings. It happens. Sometimes players who have previously struggled can suddenly become world beaters as well. Not to bring him up again, but Martin struggled before coming to us, even at Championship level, with his only near prolific season being in League One if I recall right. Barnes was already a quality player when he left us, with the vast majority of issues being fitness related, to say him not being fighting fit and performing well can be written off like that requires some massive missteps in logic. 

I really don't get the English arrogance about leagues not in Europe, leagues that aren't England, Spain, Germany or Italy. The MLS is actually not a bad quality of league in the slightest. It's not the Premier League, but there is some absolute class in the MLS, and not just geriatrics who want their last payday. Again, it's telling that one of the countries that always finds itself surprised by how they fail at every major tournament is so arrogant about the quality of the rest of the world. 

Barnes performing in the MLS is a better sign of a good player than us scouting out the SPL, League One or some journeyman from the Championship who scored 3 in 40 last season. He's performed well, and if the club are having a look at him, I'd trust their decision, although I honestly don't want him back for other reasons. 

​The points you make are fair enough, what are your thoughts on Bradley Wright Phillips? Couldn't cut it in the Championship but looks amazing in the MLS?

I agree about English arrogance at times however, I can think of more failed signings from the MLS than I can players who coped with the transition. Brek Shea, Simon Dawkins and Kei Kamara are all examples that spring to mind.

I'm unsure on Barnes but my gut says no. 

[irobinson]

​3:32 is that our defense? 

​even Grant could have saved that one lol!

[Gritty]

Pearce : uninspiring link. No prem or prem chasing team interest reported 

Weimann: Ditto

Barnes:Ditto

feels like we are back in bad old days of uninspiring signings. But because it's pre season we are looking at them through rose tinted glasses 

I always look at potential signings and think whether our rivals would be gutted they hadn't signed them. None would be of those 3.

bent: very good signing. Well sought after

ince: Ditto

those 3. No thanks.

[RamNut]

 

This youth might be alright.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA2bLr6XugE
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK9l1LlLuyk

 

[Albert]

​Conor Doyle plays up front for the top of the table side DC United and Jordon Stewart and Tyrone Mears play at full back for Seattle Sounders and they are top of the league.

A few good players doesn't hide the fact that the league is around the level of league one. 

Mears was one of our only players to look good in the Premier League. Stewart wasn't that bad, just inconsistent, something that can be dealt with. Doyle looked a handy player, but to my knowledge he isn't scoring over there either.

The level appears to be around the mid-upper Championship level with greater scatter in quality of players (some seem league one or worse standard, some would walk into sides in the Premier League). 

​

How is it arrogance and what has our national sides performances in tournaments got anything to do with this?

The MLS is a poor league that will never attract any top players in their prime. It's full of washed up players that have failed elsewhere and a scattering top players looking for that final golden pay cheque.

It will never be a top league either because top players in their prime want to play in the Champions League, arrogant? No, it's the truth. 

Saying that there are other quality leagues around the world, just not the MLS or your beloved A League

The arrogance is that England's expectations are drastically out of whack, because they seem to believe that their quality at Premiership level must mean that they are that much better than the rest of the world. However, when they actually face the rest of the world it becomes much more apparent that the gulf is an order of magnitude smaller than most expect. Overexpectation and overconfidence make bad bedfollows, but it's pretty much the staple of the English sporting experience. You could sum up McClaren's time as England manager that way, you could sum up the current experience that way. How many people on here still sit back and think "we were so awful that Costa Rica made it through ahead of us", rather than realising that the problem was always that you writing off the rest of the world is only going to lead to the same? 

The world of football changes over time, and you never know what might happen, but I do agree with you that I doubt that the best of the best will ever play there. However, are we the best of the best? Are we even close to the best of the best? You're talking Champions League quality players when we're struggling to even keep ourselves in the top 6 in the Championship? Then you go right ahead and knock the MLS in the same breath? No, it's not the Champions League, but neither is the Championship, neither is the midtable in the Premiership. There are better players in the MLS than we could get at this time, yet you write off Giles while he's a standout? 

I'd also suggest you note that there are actually another group of players in the MLS you've actually ignored. The Americans themselves. There are occasionally very good players from America who either stay at home, or prefer home over midtable mediocrity even at Premier League (and other European league) level. 

​

​The points you make are fair enough, what are your thoughts on Bradley Wright Phillips? Couldn't cut it in the Championship but looks amazing in the MLS?

I agree about English arrogance at times however, I can think of more failed signings from the MLS than I can players who coped with the transition. Brek Shea, Simon Dawkins and Kei Kamara are all examples that spring to mind.

I'm unsure on Barnes but my gut says no. 

​Sometimes players click. Bradley Wright-Phillips showed he was a very capable goalscorer at League One level. Think of a player like Luca Toni, who only found his feet in his late 20s at Serie B level, and has performed well since. Sometimes players just get better. 

[harryram]

Pearce : uninspiring link. No prem or prem chasing team interest reported 

Weimann: Ditto

Barnes:Ditto

feels like we are back in bad old days of uninspiring signings. But because it's pre season we are looking at them through rose tinted glasses 

I always look at potential signings and think whether our rivals would be gutted they hadn't signed them. None would be of those 3.

bent: very good signing. Well sought after

ince: Ditto

those 3. No thanks.

Agree with that, maybe Pearce on a free as long as wages are small as a direct replacement for whitbread(left sided CB cover)

as for barnes and and weimann save the cash and put it towards Ince. Really think we need ince can't imagine how he would have faired in our team on form.

if we had ince close to start of last season think we would have been well away before the wheels came off

[Leicester Ram]

Pearce : uninspiring link. No prem or prem chasing team interest reported 

Weimann: Ditto

Barnes:Ditto

feels like we are back in bad old days of uninspiring signings. But because it's pre season we are looking at them through rose tinted glasses 

I always look at potential signings and think whether our rivals would be gutted they hadn't signed them. None would be of those 3.

bent: very good signing. Well sought after

ince: Ditto

those 3. No thanks.

Weimann's a PL quality striker, every one of my Leicester mates I've talked to have said they'd love him at their place and are extremely jealous we're so well linked with him. So a team above us in financial clout and the transfer food chain would like him, can't see how that's not an ambitious signing.

Pearce has played in the PL and in a promoted side, he's the calibre of player we should be looking at.

I can't make an argument for Barnes.

There's also the obvious point that some great signings don't always look good on paper, that sometimes you have to trust what a scout sees in a player. Chris Martin wasn't a particularly inspiring signing. Risks on players can pay off, and the in the case of someone like Pearce, he's clearly shown he's a capable CB, that doesn't just go away overnight, but at a club on the decline like Reading it can affect a player's performance.

I'm not really sure if you're wumming or have ridiculous expectations since you jumped on board once we got good again?

[Leicester Ram]

Also not sure why people think it's Weimann or Ince, there's been no indication we have to sign one or the other at all?

[YorkshireRam]

 

 

​Sometimes players click. Bradley Wright-Phillips showed he was a very capable goalscorer at League One level. Think of a player like Luca Toni, who only found his feet in his late 20s at Serie B level, and has performed well since. Sometimes players just get better. 

​Or, the MLS could be around his level, League 1...

[Albert]

Also not sure why people think it's Weimann or Ince, there's been no indication we have to sign one or the other at all?

​Particularly when you look at the squad at the end of last season we need to replace:

Whitbread - Pearce?

Ince - Ince?

Lingard - Weimann?

Mascarell - Barnes?

Bent - Bent?

Seems pretty much as expected so far.