Pressure is on Clough to deliver. Starting today.

[davenportram]

Oh so I'm right with that statement to?

With the exception of the football manager wages comments, I've backed up practically everything I've said thus far mate.

If someone can prove me wrong re wages of barker and Shackell, go for it.

The thing us it's you making assertions do the burden of proof lies with you not others.

[smiffy]

Were we ever interested in Miller ?

[VulcanRam]

Oh sweet baby jesus and all the all orphans

Now that's a team that could get into the play offs, surely.

[Mr Tibbs]

Were we ever interested in Miller ?

Same sort of rumours as the ALF talk. Not the point, both were available for transfer. Clough could have signed him just like he culd have signed ALF.

[smiffy]

Same sort of rumours as the ALF talk. Not the point, both were available for transfer. Clough could have signed him just like he culd have signed ALF.

I thought the point was that we were interested in ALF, but did not follow through.

The way you are talking you could say why did we not buy Fletcher

[Hucknall Ram]

If someone can prove me wrong re wages of barker and Shackell, go for it.

have you proved you are right?

[Jourdan]

To be honest, it amazes me that Clough is still in the job almost four years down the line. I would have to think that under any other regime, he would have been long gone by now.

Clough has been at the club for three full seasons and our highest finish is 12th in the Championship.

Sean Dyche spends one full season in charge at Watford, his first managerial job, and eclipses Clough's 'achievement'.

Dyche guides them to 11th, their highest league finish in four years, at the same time Marvin Sordell, Will Buckley, Don Cowie and Danny Graham all leave the club. Their replacement for Danny Graham? None other than Chris Iwelumo. And guess what despite all that, he is sacked!

It might not tell the whole story, but it makes painful reading. Clough hasn't had it easy by any means but people go on like he is some beacon of football management and that no-one could do any better but there's one example of a manager with less resources, less time and most galling of all, less experience who has already outperformed Clough.

Sure, a period of stability, financial austerity and giving a manager time bucks the trend but unless success on the pitch follows, I have to wonder if we would be better served with someone else in charge and I have thought that for some time now.

Of course, the reality is Clough is here to stay and I just hope that he can prove he's up to the task but it seems unlikely.

[smiffy]

To be honest, it amazes me that Clough is still in the job almost four years down the line. I would have to think that under any other regime, he would have been long gone by now.

Clough has been at the club for three full seasons and our highest finish is 12th in the Championship.

Sean Dyche spends one full season in charge at Watford, his first managerial job, and eclipses Clough's 'achievement'.

Dyche guides them to 11th, their highest league finish in four years, at the same time Marvin Sordell, Will Buckley, Don Cowie and Danny Graham all leave the club. Their replacement for Danny Graham? None other than Chris Iwelumo. And guess what despite all that, he is sacked!

It might not tell the whole story, but it makes painful reading. Clough hasn't had it easy by any means but people go on like he is some beacon of football management and that no-one could do any better but there's one example of a manager with less resources, less time and most galling of all, less experience who has already outperformed Clough.

Sure, a period of stability, financial austerity and giving a manager time bucks the trend but unless success on the pitch follows, I have to wonder if we would be better served with someone else in charge and I have thought that for some time now.

Of course, the reality is Clough is here to stay and I just hope that he can prove he's up to the task but it seems unlikely.

Good post, will not wash on here though, TOO,TOO many with Clough tinted specs, they think he is a one off , and has a gleaming ar se

[Jayram]

At the moment we should just try and enjoy yesterdays win. I am not a fan of Clough and have consistently said so on here but we are 4 games into the campaign and the way I see it this is his make or break season, and he deserves the chance to show us what he can do. The squad is entirely his now, and he can have no excuses re the players or lack of funds. If we are stone bottom by Christmas then of course he should go but somehow I don't think we will be. The big decision will be at the end of the season if we do not finish higher than last season. At that point you would hope that the board would reconsider where we are going under Nigel. I do think there are a lot of fans on here who are a lot more forgiving than they would be if his surname wasn't Clough, and that there are better managers out there who have had similar situations to deal with, but lets just see how things pan out over the next few months rather than calling for his head now.

[BOB BIGGS]

To be honest, it amazes me that Clough is still in the job almost four years down the line. I would have to think that under any other regime, he would have been long gone by now.

Clough has been at the club for three full seasons and our highest finish is 12th in the Championship.

Sean Dyche spends one full season in charge at Watford, his first managerial job, and eclipses Clough's 'achievement'.

Dyche guides them to 11th, their highest league finish in four years, at the same time Marvin Sordell, Will Buckley, Don Cowie and Danny Graham all leave the club. Their replacement for Danny Graham? None other than Chris Iwelumo. And guess what despite all that, he is sacked!

It might not tell the whole story, but it makes painful reading. Clough hasn't had it easy by any means but people go on like he is some beacon of football management and that no-one could do any better but there's one example of a manager with less resources, less time and most galling of all, less experience who has already outperformed Clough.

Sure, a period of stability, financial austerity and giving a manager time bucks the trend but unless success on the pitch follows, I have to wonder if we would be better served with someone else in charge and I have thought that for some time now.

Of course, the reality is Clough is here to stay and I just hope that he can prove he's up to the task but it seems unlikely.

Dyche in!

[Pulpman]

I think that Clough is the right man for the job and his name has just helped him in that he was given time by the fans to carry out the wishes of the owners.

Clough now has the chance to show what he can do with the squad he has put together, of course he has signed and let players go during that time but so does every other manager.

Some players will come off some will not, that is the nature of football and having all those personalities together in a dressing room.

When we get to the end of this season we will really see what he has done and then we will be able to judge him properly, not after 4 games. Enjoyed the match yesterday and hope the football continues and the tactics are to attack and not sit back and defend a lead

[Mr Tibbs]

I thought the point was that we were interested in ALF, but did not follow through.

The way you are talking you could say why did we not buy Fletcher

If you're ignoring the fact we have a limited budget and the lack of the players intent of coming here of course, we could have gone in for Fletcher.

The point seems to be why Clough went in for Maguire instead of ALF. Like I said, hindsights a great thing.

[Jourdan]

At the moment we should just try and enjoy yesterdays win. I am not a fan of Clough and have consistently said so on here but we are 4 games into the campaign and the way I see it this is his make or break season, and he deserves the chance to show us what he can do. The squad is entirely his now, and he can have no excuses re the players or lack of funds. If we are stone bottom by Christmas then of course he should go but somehow I don't think we will be. The big decision will be at the end of the season if we do not finish higher than last season. At that point you would hope that the board would reconsider where we are going under Nigel. I do think there are a lot of fans on here who are a lot more forgiving than they would be if his surname wasn't Clough, and that there are better managers out there who have had similar situations to deal with, but lets just see how things pan out over the next few months rather than calling for his head now.

A very well-reasoned post, Jayram and I agree with the sentiment. But what worries me is that I don't think it is his make-or-break season or certainly I don't anticipate that is the board's train of thought which is the crucial aspect here.

They have shown him fierce loyalty and there are no signs of that dissipating.

The team is essentially undergoing a second rebuild under Clough now we've reached the point where there's even a high turnover of Clough's own signings - Shackell, Maguire, Cwyka, Croft et al.

I don't think Clough will be sacked if we finish lower than 12th because it is not really consistent with the board's stance. I doubt he'd be sacked even if we were relegated.

That's my concern most of all is that the normal conventions don't apply here and that we could be stranded in midtable in the Championship for a decade or worse before anything changes or until Clough gets it right.

When do you say enough is enough?

[RIMBAUD]

clough has done exactly as the board have asked.

why sack him?

[smiffy]

clough has done exactly as the board have asked.

why sack him?

No he has not mate, he has done the penny pinching part, but the septics expect promotion as well.

[gcdcfc28]

clough has done exactly as the board have asked.

why sack him?

Because He is'nt good enough perhaps?

He spends too long chasing a certain player (Davies, Maguire, Martin, Moxey..), only to when finally signed up to get rid 6 months later for practically 1/4 the price. How is that good management?

And barring the Football Manager wages remark I posted yesterday, I don't see what is far from the truth to what I have posted 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />

He's Had money to spend, despite the same old "peanuts" comment.

Wasted bucket loads of cash on loanees, only to never play them or looked just complete ****.

Extended Savages contract - taking a 34 year old to 15k a week (so much for a tight budget huh?)

Signed rubbish eg: Doyle, Pringle, Deeney, Moxey etc

Has no back up targets when another clubs snaps up one of ours eg Connor Sammon, Billy Sharp...

Failed to mastermind a play off push last season - despite Glick saying that was the aim (I even posted a video)

[Duracell]

To be honest, it amazes me that Clough is still in the job almost four years down the line. I would have to think that under any other regime, he would have been long gone by now.

Clough has been at the club for three full seasons and our highest finish is 12th in the Championship.

Sean Dyche spends one full season in charge at Watford, his first managerial job, and eclipses Clough's 'achievement'.

Dyche guides them to 11th, their highest league finish in four years, at the same time Marvin Sordell, Will Buckley, Don Cowie and Danny Graham all leave the club. Their replacement for Danny Graham? None other than Chris Iwelumo. And guess what despite all that, he is sacked!

It might not tell the whole story, but it makes painful reading. Clough hasn't had it easy by any means but people go on like he is some beacon of football management and that no-one could do any better but there's one example of a manager with less resources, less time and most galling of all, less experience who has already outperformed Clough.

Sure, a period of stability, financial austerity and giving a manager time bucks the trend but unless success on the pitch follows, I have to wonder if we would be better served with someone else in charge and I have thought that for some time now.

Of course, the reality is Clough is here to stay and I just hope that he can prove he's up to the task but it seems unlikely.

You've made a very unfair comparison. Losing your best players at Watford is one thing, taking over a side that is a minor improvement on the worst side this country has ever seen, kept up only by a player who is only fit for half a season (who we won't be able to afford to keep for long, by the way), and who are stupendously overpaid to be bad at football. Not just poor. Bad at football.

What staggers me is the extent to which people underestimate where we were. Administration is a better position to be in that where we were in January 2009. You can sell all your players and start again. We had 38 crap players, give or take a Hulse or Commons, contracted to this club. And they were all pr1cks, signed by two horrible men. Such a bad bunch that one player lept through a training ground window to leave them at the first opportunity...

And we expect "sucess" from this point? The side that got relegated from the Premier League WOULD have also finished bottom of the Championship, and yet when we came down, some fans were expecting more than a relegation fight. Which was funny, if anything.

Don't get me wrong though, we have seen failure. The 2010/11 season can't be described as anything other than a unmitigated disaster due to our terrible run after October, getting dumped out of the Cup by Crawley etc. Clough has an awful lot to answer for for that season. We've shown tactical naivety and some terrible, terrible showings in Cup competitions.

But, having said that, the league position last season wasn't a failure last season and was actually a good recovery from the season before, the Jewell era, and actually, from everything that's happened since George Burley left. A real sign that the culture at the club has changed. Remember Ssausagehorpe, Aston Villa, West Ham? Performances where the players either gave up at the first whistle or simply didn't look bothered. No more. We're often out-classed, yes, and still far too often for my liking - but that's to be expected given our budget. When a club like Derby or Dyche's Watford or Peterborough face Cardiff, Leicester, or Southampton on a good day, they will get beaten. They just will, and it doesn't matter what anyone does.

And, when all is said and done - we're twice as good as we were when Clough took over, and the squad is paid half as much. And paid less than most of this league, and some from the league below too.

I would have sacked Clough after the Crawley game. Or the Ssausagehorpe game. I would have been wrong. The board's unchallenged and unfazed loyalty to Clough should be admired, whatever your views on Clough, and it has always given me this acute feeling that the owners know something that I don't.

[Duracell]

Who cares about the fackin budget? It's the league position which matters.

But for the sake of it;

Shackell was on around 10 grand a week, Barker is on around 12k and Savage was on 15k (if the budget was that tight why did we extend his fookin contract?!).

And the Jewell crap? Like the Kris Commons, Paul Green, Steven Davies and Rob Hulse who saved us from he drop under Clough?

Those players kept us up. Just. Because they were playing with Alan Stubbs, Martin Albrechtsen, Claude Davis, Mile Sterjovski, Andrejs Pereplotkins, Ruben Zadkovich, Paul Conolly, Mo Camara, Stephen Pearson (why Clough persisted with him is one thing I will never fully understand), Tito Villa, Nathan Ellington...you picked four good names from a squad of 38. Two of them were barely ever fit.

And yes, finances do matter. You can't just say "we're Derby, get us promoted or GTFO". League position matters, but sack Clough, bring in Holloway, finish 8th all you like - we weren't getting anywhere near the top 6 these past four seasons, and it is a miracle by either luck or design that we didn't go down again.

There's a reason for every league position. Number one - results. Number two - performances. Number three - the manager and players who are responsible for these results and performances. And number four - the reason why the manager and players are at the club they are at. And that's normally to do with finances, if not entirely.

[Asanovic]

Its a wait and see thing, if we end this season the same or worse than last, then you are wrong, we have just wasted nearly five years, just because of a name.

If we actually have a successful season then the opposite would apply,

I hope the second is the case, not for Clough, not for the septics, but for DCFC and for the supporters, all of them.

Clough out, Yanks out 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

You're obsessed with this name thing mate. We've been here 1000 times.

[RamNut]

Look....whats happened in the past is increasingly irrelevant.

Yes he made mistakes.

He was too slow to set about building his own team.

Jim smith did it in one summer. Arthur took a couple of years.

But we were tied into a squad with new contracts and you could argue that he gave the existing players a chance to impress.

His treatment of players has been poor and shabby at times but.......

On the other hand he has made some good signings - fielding, coutts,

Some very good signings - keogh, ward,

And some great signings - brayford, Bryson.

Out of limited resources he is building something - the evidence was there to see yesterday.

What matters now is how he and the fans handle defeat.

Its easy to manage a winning team. Not so easy to keep cool when we lose.

That is where he has lost it in the past and ended up shooting himself in both feet.

He's been brave favouring hendrick over one of his own signings in bailey

And playing hughes in preference to jacobs.

The squad is getting better and better.

Its not finished and there is room for further improvement

But I think that he might have just turned a corner.

This is the best football since cywka, bueno, commons.

This time can we keep it going come the dark nights , the freezing cold, the injuries and suspensions.

If we can then he WILL have achieved something, even if he took a difficult and circuitous route to get there.