Ramtastic ones
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Posts posted by Ramtastic ones
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1 minute ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:
Maybe in theory but we probably don’t have the funds with administration so we can’t do much, and the Premier League will probably protect Villa.
Call the efl's bluff - stop this or we'll start too is what the administrators should do.
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18 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:
This needs to go to court. The EFL are either doing something unnecessary or maybe illegal. Here is why- What happens for example if other clubs want to sue Derby who lost to Derby under the three year period of finances looked at - Bristol lost to Derby and they could say they lost momentum and therefore a playoff place was unattainable or something similar. Or Sheffield Wednesday may want to bring a case for example...whatever millions. Its ridiculous. This would be an extension of this farcical situation. The outcome now looks like there could be no club soon unless the claims are dropped or this case is taken to a high court as the EFL may be operating illegally here blocking a takeover.
Or we sue villa and QPR
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Just been announced on Midlands today that administrators have stated that the process of selling club is stalled until 'boro and Wycombe cases are solved. Time for the Rams to sue QPR and Villa.
Worth noting only one club (Brentford) of last nine promoted have not breached FFP rules in their promotion season.
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1 hour ago, Archie said:
Washing their hands with the Boro and Wycombe affairs. They could make these absurd claims go away with a bit of presure if they wanted to.
I'm struggling to see where we go from here.
We sue both QPR and villa for loss of revenue when we lost to them in play finals and they both breached FFP. I reckon thats about £200m. If so we're in clover and the EFL are in the poo as every season will end in litigation.
The EFL need to wise up and put a stop to this litigation farce. The rules - points deductions for offenders - are what all clubs sign up to.
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1 hour ago, Crazy said:
I'm all for criticising the EFL, but aren't they doing the right thing here? If we don't have the funds to fulfill our commitments, we shouldn't be allowed to sign be players.
If, as some people are claiming, they are unreasonably blocking the preferred bidder being announced with their hefty deposit, then sure, blame them. But I'm not sure we've seen any evidence of that, have we?
Not really. The administrators job is to ensure we don't accrue additional debt (that can't be repaid), find a buyer and whilst doing that run us as a going concern. If the administrators have preferred bidders that will cover any accrued debt when they take over, or the administrators can repay that debt should they have to liquidate the company then there is no issue.
The EFL are creating issues that don't exist and that can only be because they either want us liquidated or related.
- Crewton, strawhillram, uttoxram75 and 1 other
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On 13/01/2022 at 10:41, Red Ram said:
Have you got a link for this please?
Daily telegraph if I recall
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3 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:
They can sell players, they just can't get a good price. Ah diddums.
So if you can't get good price because everybody knows your skint it's ok but if it's because of Covid it isn't. Think we might have got a tad more than we did for Bogle and Lowe with a positive bank balance.
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Just seen this.
Middlesbrough and Stoke also face severe scrutiny as Covid-inflicted collapse in transfer values makes it impossible to offset FFP losses
God I hope it's true for gobson and his oh so perfect 'boro.
- strawhillram, r_wilcockson and R@M
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12 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:
Should recoup that easily when we sue QPR and Villa. Villa broke the rules in 2019 is he suing them ?
Add Wolves, West Brom and Leeds to that list. Over spend and get promoted. Zero consequences
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Anybody figured out yet why we get 9 points and Reading get 6?
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On 25/10/2021 at 18:47, one_chop said:
I wouldn't get excited until the fat lady sings.
She sits near me in the east stand and I haven't heard her sing in years
- Kathcairns, ColonelBlimp, jono and 4 others
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5 hours ago, Icomeinpeace said:
I love the optimism but the reality is that clubs - in the top divisions at least - long since stopped being able to fund operations from the fans directly i.e gate receipts, merch and match day activity. Look at a club like Arsenal - turnover of £403m in 2018 - gate and match income £99m. And that's when they can rely on a full stadium and decent return on away support. They got twice that income from TV rights. Brighton - £139m turnover - match income £19m (TV money £110m).... Burnley turnover 139million, match income just 6million, TV money 122m. So Derby without any real TV money in league 1..... sorry I'll stop it now as it really is depressing.
So when did I say that there was a single item "silver bullet" fixes it? I didn't did I.
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33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:
Derby with zero 'TV money' is still over £21m in a normal season. Which would still be about 35th highest in the country.
Thank you. My point is made.
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11 minutes ago, Icomeinpeace said:
They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.
Most of my my best friends are trees or Leeds fans - I live in Lincolnshire - so no axe to to grind my red friend. ?
The potential for profit is in the fan base. How many teams in all divisions have the potential that we and several others in the championship and div one have?
The revenue potential is there.
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6 minutes ago, Spanish said:
In terms of player value you can only depreciate
I'll now to your greater knowledge. EFL rule or accountancy rule. If the latter, with regards tangible assets which players and shares are (I think) then how can the EFL apply a rule that doesn't apply in every other business model.
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21 minutes ago, Spanish said:
You can’t increase the value
So if a company buys an asset and it increases in value, they can't reflect that in their accounts? If that is correct every set of accounts that includes share values is totally ducked.
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8 minutes ago, bimmerman said:
He's in my opinion just tried to save face and twaddle a reason out as to why he's not the bad guy
At this moment in time,I believe that liquidation is round the corner. It's awful to think it that the club I've loved for 30 years could be wiped away but unfortunately that's the reality. Who'd buy a debt laden club with less guaranteed income?
I started out in kiddies corner back in the early seventies. I saw us beat Real Madrid at the BBG and I was there for many other great games. Many will have been rams fans for much longer and seen greater days. I have a programme from the '46 cup final given to me by grandad. Derby is in my DNA. Let's hope that we survive this and let's use our energy in a positive way.
MM, love him or hate him, has gone. We, as true fans move on and do what we can - support the players and staff in a positive way. Energy focused on the old guard is wasted. Pride park is our home and pride is what we have.
I will still go to the matches. My 13 year old son will come with me - he is still firmly a Ram even though he lives in an area (Grantham) dominated by forest fans. He dreams of those great days that I witnessed. If he can stay loyal so can we. COYR.
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28 minutes ago, Spanish said:
You think our model reflected reality? Really you do?
Probably and I say that with the acceptance that I may be wrong. In reality teams buy player who perform to the expected level an in this scenario the model of exponential depreciation works. If a player under performs then the straight line model applies - unless the club decided to off load, then the negative exponential would apply. If a player over performs then his asset value would increase. Accordingly, no fixed model is correct and logically the method of amortisation applied, should reflect the individual asset. For example Bogle's asset value increased, jozefoons decreased - why treat them the same?
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19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:
Go on then tell me the things YOU heard that Mel or other sources/EFL hasn't already told the media/press or fans in one form or another. Put your facts where your mouth is mate.
You don't know if you don't listen and by the same token can't judge if you don't listen. You may well be right, but you are guessing if you don't listen.
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1 hour ago, Spanish said:
i loved what he said about amortisation, did the work and established that most players do not lose their value in a straightline basis. We bought senior players and our experience under his tenure is their value depreciated in a vertical straight line. Businesses should use amortisation based on their corporate knowledge and experience. What we chose was something that would crucify us in the last year of contracts because to do it any other way would have breached P&S
What Derby did was adopt a method that reflected the reality of football. Ronaldo for £13m, Bogle and Lowe for £7m. There is the reality. What do you think is better value? All will be worth nothing as an asset when their contracts expire.
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13 minutes ago, ram59 said:
Yes, it is correct what he said about player values dropping mainly in the last year of their contract and I don't see that it is illegal to do the amortisation in this way. Derby used this method in the belief that when the final year of these players' contracts were due, we would be in the premier league and then it wouldn't matter, one of a number of gambles which didn't pay off.
He also tried to justify Lampard's team's wages by saying that Rowett's compensation nearly covered their first season costs, but they were on 3 year contracts, how would we have covered the other 2 years?
Ultimately, he is responsible for what has happened to the club, he has taken gambles which haven't paid off. He and Derby have been unlucky on a number of occasions over the years with a number of events contributing to the current situation. Who knows, had Zamora not scored that goal, Hughes and Bryson got injured, Newcastle, Stoke and Chelsea not sacked their managers, EFL deciding our amortisation policy was wrong years later, EFL questioning the value of the ground, Lampard picking a different team against villa and finally the big one covid, we may have got away with it.
He probably thought that as it was his money, he was entitled to take the gamble. But unfortunately it isn't that simple and the reputation and status of the club are now in question.
So first of all this is no defence of MM. Like most I am fuming, but let's not let emotion get in the way of reality.
Players value depreciation at championship level is not relative to premiership and as MM pointed out if you under value an asset then sell it you get a tax bill, so whilst the EFL don't like it, technically MM is right. Not the first time the EFL are wrong and it won't be the last.
As for Lampards team, years 2 and 3 don't matter as they left of their own free will, so there was no cost. In fact we got a pay off so made a profit.
WE didn't get the rub of the green and MM made mistakes, big mistakes, but he tried. That is all now history. We need to move on, support the club and the players and together, with a fair wind and a pinch of overdue luck, we will come out of this.
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3 hours ago, Icomeinpeace said:
But its in danger of not being a going concern. The club are a business and like all businesses it's saleable value is based on the money it can make on the day-to-day plus the value of its assets. The administrators look at what it owes and how it can pay back that money through the sale of its assets and projected income over a period of time. The club are in all probability (sorry) going to be relegated so your income will likely fall from lower attendances, not a given but a probable, your value from sponsorship will fall as you'll in League 1, you don't own your stadium so you can't sell that, at present all you own is the contracts of your players. You look at the current squad and you have assets with some value like Sibley and Buchanan but not such else.
So you owe +£30 million pounds.... and your projected income is low and going to get lower and you own pretty much nothing. The administrator's only job is pay off your owings, if they rule that you are not a viable business so there's no likelihood of you meeting your current and future obligations then they can order the club be liquidated as the only way for the creditors to get anything back.
Businesses look at the future potential for profit, not just assets and current profit, as they reflect the performance of the current board of directors, not what a future board of directors might realise.
- LeedsCityRam, Crewton and r_wilcockson
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The Administration Thread
in Derby County Forum
Posted
Just mailed this to talksport.
Talk sport team
What are your views on Boro and Wycombe suing Derby for loss of revenue and the efl's stance in blocking a deal until this is resolved?
What do you think to the president that Boro and Wycombe's stance sets for future seasons and if you think suing Derby is justified should Derby sue villa and QPR who breached FFP in the seasons they beat Derby in the play off final, thus levelling the playing field?