atherstoneram

1 hour ago, cosmic said:

That article says Ashley was close to a takeover in December. If that's true (big if) then why did it not happen? Was it the Boro claim that was sorted out after the transfer window had shut? So why not crack on with it? Imagine the different position we'd have been in he'd gotten this done back then.

We're in desperate need of some transparency here, because this is really painful to endure.

No doubt the statement "was close to a takeover in December" has come from the Ashley camp,he might have thought he was close to a takeover but the administrators didn't. Very much doubt that Ashley will tell why it didn't happen. Perhaps he thought peanuts would buy the club.

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

Quick question, if the club gets liquidated, Q won’t get paid either will they?

I think they need to take some of the blame for stringing this whole situation out.

Time to sharpen their pencils I think.

Think if we get liquidated then the TV money which the EFL have been holding onto and is released at the end of the season goes to paying football creditors and then the administrators.

2 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Percy claiming that there has been no contact between Quantuma and MA for 2 months!

If the offer he made or was hoping to make didn't meet the administrators demands why would they get back in touch,the administrators won't be on their hands and knees grovelling to anyone.

4 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

There are some rumours that a meeting has been had with the council, the bidder and someone from the club so that the stadium will be owned by the council and leased to us in a workable way. Another rumour is that the council ran the numbers before and couldn't make it work but the very real threat of the club's extinction is making them think again. 

I'm not sure if no news is good news but it's all such a ducking mess. I just want to be able to go and enjoy the football without worrying if we'll have a club again. 

There is no way the council will buy the ground when they can't find the funds to run council services as they should.

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

I think if he has the means we are relying on him having good will towards the situation.

 PS Where have all the MPs and Council leaders and celebrities gone again !

Why are we getting no concrete news .

Is no news good news 

 

 

All the MP's and celebrities can do is a bit of posturing about the plight of the club nothing else.

5 hours ago, RipleyRich said:

Appleby`s bid has always bothered me. Out of the known bidders, he is the one who probably has the Club in his heart, but doesn`t have the cash. Any investor backing him will be purely looking at a business transaction and will not be risking their cash. So either the cash will be limited, or will have massive securities against it in one form or another. Also what cash is available to take the club forward after purchase? For me it just doesn`t appear a viable bid given the clubs circumstances.

As for MA. Well, we know he has no love for the club. Its an out and out business transaction, and if the numbers don`t stack up, it won`t happen. He will definitely not take the club without the stadium IMO. He sold off assets at Newcastle and I am certain he would want the same opportunities at Derby.

I genuinely think we are now well into squeeky bum time.

It's not as if he can sell off the land around the ground,one of the car parks (probably more) are leased from Derby City Council.

5 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

We ain't gonna be liquidated.

Contrary to popular belief, the term too big to fail was actually first made in reference to mid-size second tier football clubs rather than JP Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs in 2008.

It has also been stated in the recent past that football as we know it is not sustainable and a number of clubs will go.

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

The rules are clear but, as you would expect with the EFL rules, there is provision for the Board to approve the application of a new member should the circumstances mean that the standard provisions do not address the issue. Of course, such special arrangements could lead to legal challenges from other clubs, so it wouldn't be straightforward. 

But what's the alternative? Which league below EFL level could cope with a DCFC phoenix? FC United cause enough problems for teams at their level, and their away following is around 500. Would a DCFC phoenix be prohibited simply because the leagues that they could apply for can't in practice accept them and the one that could handle them won't consider the obvious solution? Could the National League cope? 

It's been reported that the EFL has been mulling over this potential issue. They'd be irresponsible if they hadn't. 

All the FA have to do is make away games all ticket.

1 minute ago, Eatonram said:

But Kircner will inherit their debt whereas ours would be cleared. Frankly the squad is irrelevant as we would not pay fees for new players and it gives us a chance to sign players on sustainable contracts. Derby in the long term are a far more attractive proposition than PNE at 40m

Not to buyers it seems.

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

The process seems to be a bit of a mystery but, hasn’t it been suggested that the EFL clubs (and therefore the EFL in effective) have to vote in favour if the proposal was for a Phoenix club to join in League 2? (Seems like a very optimistic proposition).

Not suggested by the EFL but by a so called journalist,the rules on liquidation are quite clear in the EFL rules.

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Regardless Of who is to blame and how much , clearly both Morris and the Efl have ducked up big time. 
 

yet either or both could help us even now. 
 

Morris  if he has the money has to help us out. And the Efl absolutely can remove any threats of further penalties if those threats are putting off buyers. Otherwise the penalties will only damage the creditors and are counter productive. 

If the bidders are not willing to meet the requirements of paying creditors 25 pence in the £ then the EFL can and will impose further sanctions, that is the precise reason the rules are there,to stop clubs offering less and carrying on without the worry of further penalties otherwise you could have bidders offering just 2 pence in the £ to creditors and nobody could do anything about it.That would cause further damage to the creditors.

28 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

As much as I want to storm the pitch, make a statement, or even try and get to the directors box and say hello to Mr Pearce, my fear is rubbing the EFL up the wrong way, any more than they already have been.

Liquidation seems likely now, it will then be up to the EFL where we start next season, league 2 or 10th tier.

It is not up to the EFL where we start next season,if we are put into liquidation then we are expelled from the EFL. The phoenix club then has to submit an application to the FA to enter a league,the FA then decides,if the application is successful and meets all requirements which league the club joins. None league (National league) football from the Conference down is governed by the FA not the EFL.

1 hour ago, glyn1957 said:

Just been looking at the thread about WR saying he wants to meet up with any new owners and wants a guarantee on future funding, well if i were him i would just finish now because he must be taking some of the stress home and no one needs that.

I really don"t think that it would blot his managerial career because of the dedication he has shown the club under circumstances that many other managers would have jumped ship because of  by now.

Why would he want another season with one hand tied behind his back if we exit administration with a 15 point penalty. If  the "new owners" see that as the best option which doesn't meet the minimum requirement of payment to creditors the EFL will possibly include a  cap on players salaries as part of the business plan which new owners have to agree to.

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Blindingly obvious any buyer wants some equity if they are paying £30 million for 5 contracted players so the ground has to be balanced into that fee MM made this mess and only MM can sort it out - if he had not put us into Administration he probably could have sold the club with the stadium as a championship club to the likes of your Ashley or Appleby. MM mistakes put us in this position yet us supporters get to be the main ones suffering, sort it out MM or things start getting very difficult for you I suspect in so many ways that I don’t wish to even think about. 

What a ridiculous comment,why, what is going to happen?  I know tensions are high and nerves are fraught but really.....

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

The Daily Mail article tells me the exact same thing we’ve all known about for about three months!!!

MM takes a hit which he doesn’t seem to want to do yet or we start next season with minus 15, something Im not interested in either of a new owner thinks that’s a good way to engage with a fan base.

The bidders won't be overly concerned about engaging with the fan base if it costs them money to avoid the - 15 points,as many have pointed out so long as the club is saved they will keep going. 

2 hours ago, Eatonram said:

 

Aren’t you saying two completely opposite things here?

both as negative as possible. 

If people take it as negative that's not my problem, folks are saying and moaning why the administrators haven't named a preferred bidder yet (maybe the bids haven't been high enough) and that creditors get what they are given so long as the club survives. Whether you like it or not that's not the way administration works. 

Do you wonder why the club hasn't got a new owner by now?.

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

they wrote a paper on all of this before taking office - there were no complexities they were unaware of.

Fans' expectation (including yours perhaps) was that they would get the PB announced in Dec or latest Jan. You now call that unrealistic but it was Q's timetable. It's 28 March today.

Have to say, when they announced their timetable in Sept, I thought there was plenty of room for slippage

I think they are under resourced - they have handled the various workstreams (EFL, creditors, Gibbo, exit, bid process) in too sequential a way. This led to the EFL-football creditors-Gibbo debacle arising far too late in the day, wrecking our transfer window and exposing the entire process to added risk.  The last month fannying around with the bidders speaks for itself.

This is not hindsight. Posters on here were warning months ago that bidders would not take the Gibbo risk. And people were saying months before it happened that MM's involvement was needed to solve the Gibbo issue, and there were press articles along the same lines. Q needed to be speaking to the EFL about the FC issue in advance of the train wreck; in the same way they needed to be speaking to bidders in advance of receiving bids that failed to clear the bar last month.

I'm not unrealistic. They are human, things will go wrong. But it's verging on a comedy of errors. 

You are focusing on the administrators concentrating on putting the club First rather than their statutory obligation of putting creditors First. For all we/you know the administrators may have spoken to bidders of what is required to "clear the bar" perhaps the bidders are unwilling to do that.Don't keep blaming the administrators for the mess they are working through.

The comedy of errors is the state the club was left in when they walked through the door.

3 hours ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Arguably a lower* bid gives LOWER probability of liquidation as the new owner will have more day to day cash for running the club.

*Maximum creditor hair cut…

The administrators will be more focused on what they can get for creditors not what the new owners have to spend on the day to day running of the club.If they cannot come to an agreement as to what the creditors will accept or they deem acceptable they will be asking questions of bidders what their expectations are,they will not look favourably on getting very little for creditors and then spending more on day to day running.

1 hour ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

There is no such thing as a bid so low that we get liquidated, only a bid so low we get -15 points.

Who on gods green earth would turn down a £20-30m bid as they would “prefer” to go down the liquidation route.

Im as pissed of on whole thing as the gloomiest but even I can’t see why this could happen.

Of course there is, it is not only a case of meeting creditor requirements (or not as the case may be) they also have to show the administrators their plans going forward. As i said earlier the administrators are not going to sell the club to see it back in administration in 12 months time. It is not about whether we get a - 15 point deduction or not, that is nothing to do with the administrators.It is all about what they offer and the plan for the club to survive.

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I am not trying to protect Mel Morris. He left the club six months ago. Since then we have had 21 points deducted by Efl. The appointed insolvency practitioners have been prevented from doing their job by the Efl. Where in the rules does it say anything about player contracts? Or 15 point deductions? Or that Efl made up rules take precedence over insolvency legislation? 
 

ffp wasn’t enforced for other clubs that sold their stadia. Or other clubs who used creative accounting. So why Derby? 
even the daily Mail say Efl have a vendetta against us. 

 

While the club is in administration i cannot see a situation where they will negotiate player contracts, for a start they wouldn't know what to offer and whether possible new owners wanted to keep said players. 

The club being part of an association (EFL) should be fully aware of their rules.

17 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

That would seem a strange “option” when we know that offers in region of £30m have been turned down. Liquidation would raise a small fraction of that. 

We don't know what percentage of that is for creditors, just because someone has offered in the region of £30M doesn't mean it is a viable option for the administrators or indeed the creditors to accept. For all anyone knows as no one is ITK that may include the ground.

It is not just about what creditors receive,the administrators have to consider whether the club is a viable option going forward with all the debt. They won't sell to see the club back in administration in 12 months time.They will just look at things from a business view, they will not have any emotional attachment to the club.

My personal opinion is and i know people won't agree is that the administrators have done well to keep the club going up to now.

26 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Don’t think you are far wrong. But how is Wayne going to bring in 40 players in a couple of weeks ? When  will season tickets go on sale? I just hope the EFL like the business plan and don’t mess us about anymore.

Seems at present they are having to concentrate on finishing the season,even when a preferred bidder is chosen it doesn't mean they take over ownership in a couple of weeks. It could be after the season has finished that they get handed the keys,if they still want them.

6 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

But surely the best deal for creditors and selling the Club will always be one and the same thing as NOT selling the Club and therefore liquidating remaining assets would be the worst possible deal for creditors. 

There comes a time when there is no viable option than apart to liquidate a business.

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

It’s Q’s job to get us out of admin.  It’s their job to read the market, to understand if their request for viable bids is going to fail (as it did a month ago). And if it IS going to fail, it’s their job to find a fix. A fix has now been found it seems, but once again, too late.
Once again. 
 

It is NOT THEIR JOB to get the club OUT OF ADMINISTRATION. It is to sort out the mess in which led to the club being placed in administration by the owner.

They are not miracle workers they are financial administrators,in all honesty there is very little to promote to sell the club as a going concern. They are not interested in the sentimental side of things,just business. Their role is to get a good a deal for the creditors as possible and sell the club if possible. 

I am sure they are far more experienced in such matters as you and i,especially when it comes to reading the market.

Some people need to give their heads a wobble.

47 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

His equity is worth nothing and he’s selling it for nothing. 
Looks like what’s happened is:  Q had no unqualified bids that cleared the bar. (Talk about mismanaging the process...) And no bidders wanted a div 1 club on -9 or worse. So Q  had to go back to MM and say ‘sorry if the club is to avoid liquidation you need to throw in the 20m deposit you have with MSD.  And he said “OK. But if I do that and the buyer makes out like bandits I need a share of the upside obviously.” It’s probably what you would have said in his shoes 

Only slightly more credible than the Clooney rumour ? Really ?
 

How can the administrators be accused of mismanagement, if bidders are not prepared to submit bids to clear the bar that is not their fault.