atherstoneram

Just now, Tamworthram said:

Depends. If you’re one of those creditors owed say £10,000. Would you rather accept £2,500 or nothing if the club goes into liquidation? The creditors may well feel bitter about how much the players are earning but it irrelevant really.

At the end of the day though, it won’t matter what most, if not all, of the smaller creditors want will it as I don’t think an agreement requires an unanimous vote does it?

£2,500 over 24 months mmm that's a deal clincher, not sure about a unanimous vote but seeing as HMRC are the biggest creditors it probably isn't an issue

Just now, Hanny said:

Not sure I understand this thinking. You seem to be implying a financial entity is demanding a 'floor' price from a club in administration of monies owed. And will scoff at anything less than this...drawing a line in the send of what is acceptable.

But then you imply they will also be fine with getting nothing on principle of a bidder not reaching the initial 'floor' price set out? 

That doesn't make much financial sense for the creditors. ?‍♂️

The creditors (most of them) don't have any attachment to the club,emotional or otherwise, so why would they accept a derisory offer when we still have players earning in excess of £20K per week,so would see an offer of 25% or less as an insult,they won't be bothered whether the club survives or not. 

5 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Even if that means liquidation and getting nothing at all?

That will be up to the bidders to meet what the creditors demand,if they aren't prepared to do that then yes.

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I'm not sure that's a definite. If the best offer we get is only enough to warrant a deduction, I think the administrators have a duty to accept it. The only reason I can see they've thrown out the Binnies' offer is they know there's a better one coming.

They don't have a duty to accept any bids, the creditors may have told them the absolute minimum they will accept. If the bids don't reach that then they will be rejected.

54 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Well yes if I was mike Ashley we have a massive support base and first class training ground a fairly good youth system but yes club needs spending on first team and youth levels can be done over time.

But who says any new owner will want to continue with the academy in it's current form especially if we finish up in L1.

53 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Look he did not have to come back to sort gibson out but he did and yes he has left us in a mess but he is I'll perhaps it all got to much for him and yes he should sort out help a lot sooner and yes I do not like him because way left us in a mess.

But until your really really really I'll you dont know what it is like to owe money dont have but in mel case he clearly has the money but all these thing are factores.

Possibly the reason he came back to "sort Gibson out" was that it was against him and not the club,there is a possibility MM didn't want his dirty washing aired in public which it would have if it had got as far as court hearings.

3 hours ago, S8TY said:

I've also said this...I think Morris could help our situation greatly if he were to sell the ground to the new owner for a pittance / neglible sum....I don't care if anyone thinks ..poor Mel he's spent enough!...he's run us into the ground like it or not he is responsible...now do the right thing and see the new owners dont pay for the stadium.....I cannot see anyone paying over 30m for a club with no stadium!!!! our very existence depends on it.....but Mel Morris does nothing! apart from negotiate with a parasite like gibbon....i know i sound angry and apologies if i do....but i just dont see a solution where a new owner will have to Pay Mels debts and also for the stadium!! it beggars belief!!

If MM was going to "gift" the ground to a new owner no doubt he would have done that at the beginning of administration so the ground could have been included in any buyout. 

Just now, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

Nice to see Chelsea get 110 million of taxpayers cash to pay wages for players they can't afford, will they get that back its a hard sell..  Nice to see Adrian Durham happy to see it as well.  Doesn't quite fight with his normal rhetoric. 

Chelsea aren't getting 110 million of taxpayers money,it is money the government had frozen. The government have just relaxed the restrictions on their frozen bank account to allow them to play,the sanctions weren't against the club they were against the owner. 

21 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Missed the £40m Ipswich deal. That’s interesting makes me slightly more hopeful of avoiding -15 although still difficult if Mel won’t budge on £20m for stadium.

He is probably more interested in picking up a seized yacht on the cheap. 

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I've just realised that there's potentially another loophole here - or maybe I've just missed something.

The -15 is for exiting administration in a way that does not comply with EFL policy. Obviously there's the 25/35% creditor part, but another section of that policy is agreeing to the two year business plan.

Logically then, if we exit contrary to EFL policy, we won't have agreed a business plan, but will have tacitly agreed to take the 15 point hit. I've not read of any additional sanctions, so we would have avoided the business plan.

In the unlikely event that I'm right, it could easily make taking points penalty a more attractive option, assuming that the new owner is wealthy enough to deliver a competitive League 1 squad - and saving a few million could only help with that.

If it does not comply with EFL policy they could simply expel us from the EFL.

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Borehamwood may have more of a right (but possibly not if they fail to earn promotion through the normal route. It has echoes of the Wycombe only got promoted because of the PPG calculation blah blah blah) but we're talking about voting preferences not rights. 

As I said before, we simply don't know.

I only used Borehamwood as a follow on to your post,substitute them with Chesterfield, Notts County etc. take your pick who gets promoted. Hopefully it doesn't come to that in any case.

18 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

the fact that he could allow any deal to go through more easily regarding the stadium was the only thing that stopped me totally piling in on him as optimistically I still had a vague belief that he would do the right thing as an alleged fan of the club. However you have it spot on. Agreeing to an accord with Gibson was done in his usual grandstanding way with no hint of remorse. It also made everything seem worse because as you say if he could do it, he could have done it at the beginning. suspect he is waiting to do a second grand gesture expecting us all to fall at his feet in gratitude as the great messiah. Its too late. Anyone who could put the fans, staff, coaches and players through this if he didnt have to is absolute ?and narcissist.  If for some reason he cant help why wouldnt he just apologise and explain?

Because a narcissist thinks it is everyone elses fault and can't see what they have done wrong.

12 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Thank you!

£15m-£20m turnover and a cleared down (basically a clean slate) wage bill with the chance to set appropriate wage budgets going forward.

But if we take a hit with a -15 point deduction we aren't allowed to set the appropriate wage budgets,we still remain under severe constraints with the EFL.

4 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Have you seen many owners (not fans on social media), (apart from Wycombe and Boro obviously) saying we should be kicked out the league completely?
 

We simply don’t know how they would vote (maybe the teams in L1 and L2 feel we’ve been punished enough and, for financial reasons, the owners of L2 teams would rather have a Phoenix club from Derby in their league than the likes of Borehamwood - no offence intended).

You could be right but then again they might think a team like Borehamwood have more of a right to be in League 2 than a phoenix club who should be starting further down the pyramid. I don't think that getting a possible full ground for 1 match per season is going to put the club at an advantage for League 2 status.

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

You may well be right but what makes you say that? I don’t think any of us know do we? If 90% (or whatever the threshold is) voted for a Phoenix club to join L2 then there wouldn’t be any need for an extra team to be promoted from the Conference.

For the record, I’m not saying I think we would be allowed to join L2.

I haven't seen many teams rallying to our support in the present situation,by teams i mean owners.

9 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I'm starting to think that the EFL business plan is more of an issue than the 15 points.

Unless we are liquidated, we will be in League 1 next season. The 15 points would stop us making a push for promotion next season. However, two seasons of wage caps, soft embargoes having every decision signed off by Parry and Co would effectively stop us challenging for promotion for two seasons.

In that context, Ashley may as well save a his £15m and take the 15 points.

I thought  if we take the -15 points hit the sanctions imposed are more restrictive and we would probably be more in danger of slipping into League 2 than getting promotion. The team we will have next season will look nothing like the one we have now. I can't see Ashley wanting to back the academy for starters if it costs him money. 

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

As ever, the EFL rules are pretty impenetrable. I can’t find any reference to the voting threshold required as to which division a Phoenix club would be admitted. I have seen a rule that says 90% would need to be in favour of increasing the number of clubs beyond 72 but, of course in our case, it would re-establishing the number back up to 72.

The number of clubs promoted from the Conference would be increased as far as i know.

15 minutes ago, Thameram said:

Why would anyone pay mel's tax bill and then give him 20 million for the stadium on top 

he's living in fantasy land i'm still hoping someone has our best interests at heart but i think mel has to do his bit or its not gonna happen

Sorry but i don't think MM has any intention of "doing his bit" he could have done it months ago if that was the case.

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I’m not so sure. Obviously our away form is shocking but, I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen such togetherness and backs against the wall fighting spirit. If it was sorted before the end of the season the sense of relief could actually be detrimental to that spirit.

Obviously I want it sorting as soon as possible but I fear that it wouldn’t really give the players that much of a lift given our threadbare squad is already giving as much it can. It could be argued I guess, that if we were able to tie some players down with actual contracts for next season then they may be more motivated to try harder but, I’m not sure I’ve seen much evidence of any of them coasting.

I think you could well be right,if we get a new owner who is prepared to take the -15 point hit for next year to save money then we will be restricted as to what we could offer money wise in the way of new contracts so they may well get better offers elsewhere anyway. Their agents could have been been busy these last couple of months.

Barnsley one up against Fulham

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

I find this rather incredible given the amounts written off for big business and the amount of taxpayer's money thrown away through pandemic fraud. 

But it isn't HMRC who threw away the money. No use moaning when we clearly owe it.

They will wan't to regain Second spot after Huddersfields draw last night.

On 10/03/2022 at 21:35, Van der MoodHoover said:

Ticket arrived Tuesday ?

 

Positive Covid-19 test arrived today ?

 

Looks like it's the wingback armchair for me. Least my drinks will be delivered on trays with doyleys.... ?

Snob, no seriously sorry about your Covid result.

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

I do wonder if bidders actually see a pheonix in L2 as a cheaper and quicker vehicle to the Premier League than a L1 club with ongoing liabilities, a 15 point penalty and an EFL enforced business plan.

I can't help thinking that Derby County with Ashley's money would likely get successive promotions if he was able to extricate the club from the EFL'S restrictions. 

I can also see the EFL seeing it as a show of strength - Derby County tried to cheat and look what happened. Also Derby County going bust could be used by politicians as a level for change.

It seems to me, that liquidation and re-birth could be in a lot of people's interests and might even be good for us fans...although not so much for the creditors. 

A lot of that makes sense apart from a phoenix club being reborn in League 2. For a start as to the EFL saying it is a show of strength i doubt they would let us retain league status, the other 71 league clubs might have something to say about that.It has never been confirmed we would restart in League 2,just a suggestion. Might get a place in the conference or even a division lower. 

9 hours ago, HoracioCarbonara said:

Unfortunately they will deal with what they are given…I deal with relatively simple transactions (just advised on a multi-hundreds of millions one) they’re not straight forward and they take time and every day throws up a new issue. They’re not buying a Mars Bar…

I was replying to a poster who said that prospective buyers may have asked the administrators to wait and see what league we are in next season to which i replied was unlikely and they were selling a championship club,or trying to.

Probably the simple transactions you advise on don't concern businesses in administration.