Oldben

2019-20: Covid means league one season finishes early, based on points per game

League One finished with Coventry City as champions and Rotherham United as the other automatic qualifier.

Wycombe Wanderers overcame Oxford United in the final at Wembley to claim third place. Wanderers, who were amateurs until 1974 and have only been in the Football League since 1993, entered the second division for the first time.

So by luck more than ability, Wycombe got promoted to the championship.

Talksport (25th April 2019):

Middlesbrough owner Steve Gibson fails in his bid to force independent review of Championship clubs’ finances

Gibson is unhappy with the conduct of Derby County, Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday.

A senior executive present at the meeting, said: “The EFL finance team did such a superb presentation on their processes and policies that everyone realised it was totally unnecessary to question their work and second-guess their FFP [Financial Fair Play] findings.

“Taking potshots at clubs’ accounts when on-field results go badly, if encouraged, will lead to a free-for-all which will bring the league into disrepute.

“We all realised after discussion that we need to leave non-sporting matters to the EFL. It is right to let the authorities do their job and not have interference from people with ulterior motives.”

An EFL spokesman said: “Championship Clubs met on Wednesday where there was a positive exchange of ideas on a number of different issues, including the League’s Profitability and Sustainability rules.

“The long term sustainability of all EFL Clubs remains of paramount importance to the EFL Board and they will continue to work with Clubs in respect of the rules.

“Clubs were also reminded of the stringent processes undertaken in reviewing financial submissions and that in the event any Club is found to be in breach of the rules, they will be referred to an Independent Disciplinary Commission.”

Given this i dont see how Gibson has a case.

https://thisisfutbol.com/2022/01/blogs/championship/Derby-county/Derby-county-kieran-maguire-talks-mike-ashley-and-potential-takeover/

I don't like this if its true!

https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/custom_face_shirt

I wonder what message to steve gibson should be put on one of these for the Middlesbrough game.

On ashley bid: To summarise the figures, from 2010-2020 Newcastle ranked lowest on capital expenditure in the league – that’s investment into the training ground, stadium, and whatnot – spending a measly £7million. For context, Brighton spent £175million in that period despite being in the Premier League for three of those seasons compared to Newcastle’s nine.

So is he the fit and proper person to be buying Derby?, if the rumours true.

Jez moxey ready to take over Derby ...

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Derby-county-jez-moxey-stoke-6450582

Derby County still owe Arsenal £8m for Krystian Bielik.

Selling bielik would be a bad business decision, as I'm not sure how much of the 8 million we would recover and we would still have to pay arsenal.

6 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Read my post above. I think you may have completely misinterpreted how this works.  But bottom line is that MSD are calling the shots, they are the only secured creditor.

Morris didnt value his own stadium it was valued by an independent valuer.

Even so after COVID and with a distressed tenant I agree it would not be worth £81 million now. It would be worth a lot more than £20 milion even without Derby as a tenant, and even without any significant redevelopment. You could use all the units for a start, the shops , the cafes and function rooms. Plus refit the concourse. Even without the 33k seating inside and the actual stadium itself it would be worth over multiple millions , including the associated land.

Helpful, thanks

Taking the view that mm doesn't fully own pps because the 30 million loan is against the stadium, as what else with value could mm have placed for collateral.

If that's the case, what % of the club does Msd own.

If any new buyer pays off the msd loan that would mean they own % of pps.

If the msd loan is say 51% of pps, then the new owner owns pps.

Now assuming that's the case what monies could mm expect to sell a proportion of the club for since the new owner would own the majority of the club.

Speculative yes, but what if that's true.

Mm valued his own stadium at 81 million to the best of my knowledge, that's not what the grounds worth, who would pay 81 million for pps.

American financiers MSD are due £20m but that will be repaid by Morris out of the sale of the stadium to a new buyer.

Could any new owner transfer this debt to themselves, because would that mean they would own a significant portion of the stadium and hold mm accountable.

I know its possible to buy debt and then, its possible to take legal action action to recover that debt.

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I'd be very happy to finish above Burnley!

Sorry I meant barnsley

I think our next games a really important game if we can beat Reading who not to distant from us in the table and in the mix of the pack we are chasing.

I'm thinking we can overhaul Burnley and Peterborough. 

The Burnley fans must be unhappy they are finishing bottom, even after Derby got a 21 point deduction.

I'm wondering if we can put enough points together to get 20th place on the table and stay up.

Now I'm worried about rooney being made an offer by other clubs.

Given that Rooneys hands have been tied on signings, I'm amazed he's done so well.

Scenario: Kirchner pulls his bid, no other bids were close to the valuation asked by the administrators.

The administrators play for time by saying that a better bid than Kirchners exists and they are pursuing that.

If that's the case why hasn't the name been revealed.

I read that Appleby and Gadsby were seeking to team up as that's the only way they could get close to matching the valuation.

I also read a rumour that Jez Moxey was bidding but if that bid had the funds close to valuation surely we would have heard something.

I think the administrators messed Kirchner around for two long so that bid was lost.

Where exactly a new bidder is coming from I'm not sure.

Usually the journalists find someone to link with a club of our size but there's nothing in the press that I can find.

I'm not of the opinion that this is a mystery buyer since I think the press would have hinted at a name.

Now the Appleby and gadsby teaming up to meet the valuation concerns me, the administrators have named a price for the club and it don't appear to be in a position to change that valuation.

Even if Appleby and Gadsby cab reach the rumoured 50 million, exactly how much do they have left to rebuild the club.

I think the administrators are playing for time, and feel that they need honest and open communication with the fans rather than covering over the truth that no current bids have met the valuation.

If the club required 20 million to cover the debts, I think it's likely a buyer has bought the club by now.

4 hours ago, Kathcairns said:

Would love to know how you know what rooney is being paid, have you seen his payslip?

Rooneys salary has been stated in the national press.

It's possible to say the quoted salary isn't the real salary, but then Derby or Rooney could sue the press for libel, for having published a salary that's not true.

I doubt Rooney would want to look bad by being linked to a high salary, if it wasn't true.

Rooney is recorded as having over 50 million in personal wealth, so I'm not sure his salary is the key factor for him managing Derby.

In fact I'm not sure what is motivating Derby him to stay at Derby, given that some fans want to criticise his performances and he could probably have an easier life at another club.

I'm a fan who supports Rooney because of his commitment to the club, and because in my opinion he's achieved a lot with his hands tied in terms of who he can bring in to improve the team.

I'm thinking that with a quality team, things could be a lot different.

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

The praise Wayne Rooney is receiving is similar to that of Nigel Clough in the early years.

Steadying a ship, making us harder to beat, uniting everyone together.

We won’t know what the future holds. Nigel Clough built an excellent squad but he couldn’t coach them as well as McClaren. Could Rooney build a similar squad given the finances? Could he coach them as well as McClaren?

I’m open to the line of ‘time will tell’ but he needs to a huge wage cut to be in line with that of a League One manager. He doesn’t deserve more just because his name is Rooney.

I also have to question the praise for Rooney for sticking it out. It’s laughable.

I’m sure any first-time manager would gladly stick it out earning over £50k a week and being unsackable. If his name was Wayne Smith and he was a former PE teacher you’d say he’d hit the jackpot. But because his name is Wayne Rooney and he’s a former England and Man Utd superstar he is being looked at like he is doing us a favor. It’s ludicrous. 

If Rooney leads us straight back to the championship, then a higher wage than the other managers in League one is fine by me.

If chooses to leave then Derby offering a higher wage than the other managers in League one in order to steal the nest manager that Derby can get from another club us fine with me.

At the moment although rooney hasn't won every game he has toppled giants in the Championship, for me that's a good sign.

For me if we want a winning team given where the team is now that Costa, so yes pay above the odds for the manager.

Given derbys current circumstances, which wonderfully gifted manager wants to manage the club.

In my opinion rooney is doing a great job with a 21 point deduction to the team, no money to spend on the team and even if there were that has to come with the provision that the efl actually allows the team to buy players plus Derby would have to be in a different position in the league.

What decent player is going to say that they'd like to sign for a team in an almost certain relegation position, hm a decent championship player will not say that they want to spend a season in League one.

I honestly can't think of a manager who could do a better job under the circumstances that Derby find themselves in.

27 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

That wasn’t what I asked - you’re talking as if you KNOW the details of their bids whereas actually you’re just throwing a wobbler because your own preferred bidder has backed out……if CK was so clearly offering a better deal then he’d have been named preferred bidder by know, but if the admins prefer one of the other bids ahead of CK, then it suggests that the others do have the required financial muscle to take over….

CK has been playing a game in the media where he’s tried to get the club by getting the fans and Rooney on his side - it appears the admins have followed due process and considered all of the bids and decided he doesn’t offer the best way forward - maybe they told him he needed to up his bid- whatever, it seems they’ve called his bluff and he’s folded.

If he was the only bidder I’d be expecting a fire sale, but while there are other parties still involved then there is still hope…..

Kirchner might have simply thought, gosh I don't need to waste 50 million plus, paying off derbys debt. 

He can simply buy another club without the debt.

Appleby isn't the preferred bid.

It might be the only bid left but it fails to hit the mark, there bid is considered simply not high enough.

It isn't close to 50 million yet.

Only one bid reached that mark.

This is where it gets interesting, Appleby and gadsby can now only do one thing, and that's submit a bid of 50 million or Derby are going into liquidation, as there are zero other bidders.

Appleby has messes around so long, Kirchner the only realistic bidder has left the bidding process.

Gadsby once reportedly offered 30 million for Derby and was declined.

Not sure that gadsby and Appleby have bid for Derby, since kitchners was the only bid that met the 50 million that the Administrators have asked for.

Why should bidders have to wait for administrators to deal with creditors and hmrc.

It's insulting to bidders, wealthy bidders have teams of people who are more than capable of settling those issues.

Kirchner said he believes there's only one other bidder for Derby and that their bid was no where near the 60 million he had offered, I believe him.

I think the cold truth now the administrators have lost Kirchner, is that it comes down to gadsby and Appleby to save the club.

It's easy to recall how gadsby previously failed in his bid to buy the club, when he was the clubs chairman. He offered and was rejected because he didn't offer enough.

Gadsby and Appleby, it's rumoured, don't have the cash flow to buy Derby.

Good intentions are great but they don't always get a project delivered.

Even if they can pull together the capital to buy the club, given the size of the club's debts, I'm left wondering how much might be left over to rebuild the club.

The club definitely needs rebuilding.

It's like the person who buys a house cheaply at auction, but forgets to factor in the capital required to rebuild that house so they can happily live in it.

Saving the club isn't the only thing that's requires.

Kirchner in my opinion was the administrators preferred bidder, he remains the only one to show proof of funds to the administrators.

Kirchner in my opinion was all set to be revealed as the buyer before Christmas.

Now the administrators have zero choice but to wait for bidders to show proof of funds.

So far the rumoured bid from gadsby and Appleby is just a rumoured bid.

Hm ... are these high salaries for championship players ... don't think so.

That said for league one they might be.

6 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We wouldn’t be in mid table….a few points above the drop zone….

OK so add back the 21 points to the current score, that's 25 points and that alone puts us in 19th place.

Now I'm converting from 10 draws into 6 wins and 4 draws.

3 points for a win 

1 point for a draw

6 x 12 plus the 25 points, so a total of 37 points.

We would be either level with Stoke on 35 points or just above them, in any case we would be in 5th place in this scenario where the 21 points are removed and where I've converted 10 of the draws to 6  wins.

That would see us in a play off position.

11 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Wins and goals scored stats don’t look great. New owners will need to judge if his record is good enough for him to keep his job and take us forward…

This season ...

5 wins

10 draws 

That alone puts us mid table without the 21 point deduction which isn't rooneys fault.

With a stronger team, those 10 draws might have translated into say 6 wins add that to the 5 wins we have.

I think if things were different,  a stronger team and no 21 points, Derby could easily be in the top half of the table.

Nixons seems to be merely pointing out that, the required funds, whatever amount that might be is greater than the amount Gadsby has without another business partner. So gadsby and Appleby join forces, but even if they have the funds to commit to repayment of debts, I'm left wondering, how much is left to rebuild the club.

Nixon states that Kirchner is the only one to show proof of funds to pay the debt.

I'm thinking that means he has money to rebuild the team as well.

I wasn't greatly impressed, the last time Gadsby and Appleby owned Derby, to me it felt like a project for them.

We had in my opinion, been badly managed by the owners, previous to their tenure and then along comes Appleby and Gadsby who help to stableize the club before selling at a profit to Mm.

Mm on paper looked ideal to own the club, vast wealth and local connections.

gadsby and Appleby, is it a project for them again, buy Derby, stableize the club and sell at a profit.

Like a toy.

I'm wondering about kirchners motivations but just maybe he sees it as longer term thing that gadsby & Appleby do.