davenportram

4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Fair one. I certainly would take more pride in a club that achieves success through the philosophy you describe. I just think it's less likely to work in the long run, and I certainly don't think the philosophy I've described would hamstring the manager.

Why not? It has worked for Liverpool, 

lomg term success is a result of a string philosophy with stable leadership.

3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I do worry slightly that, because of Rooney’s exceptional performance (as well as Kirchner’s links to him), there might be a bit of a cult surrounding him moving forwards.

He deserves loyalty, but no manager should ever be untouchable. I hope Kirchner opts for a proper structure and long-term plan rather than truly making us Wayne Rooney’s Derby County.

I want the opposite. I want us to have Rooney’s passion, ideals and philosophy.  For this to work he needs to bring the players he identifies in, within the business plan limits. Any structure that stifles his player recruitment will hinder him doing his job.

the rebuild is from the ground up. Rooney is a scholar from two clubs with history - both had success under long term managers whose philosophy ran through the clubs veins, through the players and fans. Obviously one had more success than the other, but he knows the importance of stability and a vision of how the club should be.

CK will know this too, as he is apparently successful in his own right in business. 
 

success is about having the right people in place, any structure has to support the Manager, not designed to hamstring him. 
 

we have a chance now to build - build a club, ethos, vision and structure that will breed success.
 

I think Rooney will stay with as as long as he can build the club in his way, will he leave us in the future? Possibly, but why would he if we are successful?

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

Don’t agree , nothing worse than empty seats in a ground and people who want to go to the game unable to get tickets , could well be us a lot of the time too ,even more so in league 1

Possibly . But I reckon clubs will look to their income and open more up to us if demand is there.

52 minutes ago, Crewton said:

He clearly meant "two versions of the business plan" not "two versions of my offer". No-one, literally no-one, would have been preparing an offer on the basis of Championship football next season. 

The business plan to the EFL is part of the offer to buy the club. 

I don’t my blame Mel

disagree with his actions but don’t blame him.

he did what we all wanted, chased the premier league dream in the way he knew how, and we wanted. Pump in cash, throw money at it. 
 

what we didn’t want, or de enough of to keep him in check was

1) try to circumvent FFP

2) set us on a cliff edge where failure meant oblivion

it’s not our fault, we trusted a man who claimed to be on of our own, a supporter thick and thin. We trusted his business acumen - this is where as a group we fans ducked up. This is why

1) he made most of his money getting lucky and selling a company who created an app - nothing to do with his business know how

2) tolerated him entering the changing room to berate the team - Rooney mentioned this in passing in a recent interview and it’s cropped up in the past (Pearson I think leaving as manager)

3) his overt attempts to circumvent FFP

had Mel not been a “Fan” we would not have stood for these (and I think others will have more examples. We ignored red flags

no opology will be forthcoming - narcissists don’t say sorry 

7 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

There's always one dumb Bar steward 

There were several that refused to believe the offer wasn’t dependent on division 

23 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

Wasn't this essentially what happened to Wigan? Didn't they have their points deducted on the final day?

I dint know about that but it was a change brought about by Leeds when they went into administration once they had been relegated. 

Oh look two versions like I suggested depending on season outcome

8 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Thought the deadline for points deductions for this season was in March ?

Nope - it’s the fourth Thursday in March for immediate sanction, after that it is suspended and applied depending on result of the season. If already relegated it goes on the following season. if not relegated it gets put on the current season of it would result in relegation, or the following season if it would not result in relegation.

As I have stated many times.

45 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

No way any points deductions will be allocated to this season ?

Not now because we are already relegated. And only because we are already relegated.

We’ll that’s it then - start planning for league 1

9 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Think it’s broadly this, in no particular order...

CK needs to agree a business plan with EFl and EFl need to approve him as Owner. He may also want confirmation from them that his proposed deal will not result in a points deduction

dont know what his requirements are re stadium but whatever they are, that needs to be sorted before he becomes owner.
 

He needs to finish his diligence and a contract needs to be signed between him and Q.

May 7 is the date by which this needs to be done we’re told, but Q could extend that 

(Quite possible Rooney will need to amend his terms as a condition of the deal with CK)

Once CK has signed, Q need to get court orders approving the creditor compromises in line with their agreement with CK. once that’s done, they will seek a court order discharging themselves as administrators and the club will be transferred to CK

Id think (if it proceeds ) the transfer will occur in June/July but who knows. I believe it’s when the transfer happens that he will pay the cash to Q and payments to creditors will be made 

 

The summer transfer window doesn’t open immedistely after our last game of the season, so it could happen after May 7th and still give us chance to sign players

the May 7th deadline is the last game of the season, ie get it done then and any points deduction would be applied this season. So

1) we could have stayed up and then accept the points deduction to go down and start league 1 on zero points (CK said the goal for next year is to win league 1) I doubt we’d be able to build or keep enough players for next season and would risk relegation a year later. Players agents would know we are desperate for players so we’d be up against it getting value for money

or

2) we are relegated and he pays enough to avoid a points deduction and start on zero points deducted in league one.

think there may be two potential plans in place.

14 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I did wonder where you were Dav. Hope all is well. 

A lot better emotionally, health wise been better but can’t complain 

40 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Huh?

I’ve had a four year absence - only just come back to the good side. 

On 12/04/2022 at 19:26, Mostyn6 said:

You do realise i was doing these about four years ago in here!! 

That’s why I stopped posting

2 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

I can't quite grasp the 25%/35% thing - the numbers don't really seem to stack up.

 

Do HMRC count as an unsecured creditor for EFL policy purposes? I know they are a preferential creditor, but they don't have any actual security, so I'd say they do, but either way, I still think I'm missing something.

 

Now these are obviously very ball parky numbers, and assuming it doesn't include the stadium of the £17.5m MSD loan - 

 

Football creditors - £6m

Quantuma £3m

Post admin loan £5m

 

So £14m to be paid upfront in every scenario.

 

HMRC £28m

Unsecured creditors £8m

 

HMRC as an unsecured creditor = £36m so £9m for 25% or £12.6 for 35%...or £3.6m for 10%

 

Which puts the bid at -

 

points deduction = £17.6m

No points deduction = £23m/£26.6m

 

But we're told that the bid is over £25m, so that would be no points deduction

 

From that, it looks likely that HMRC are not an unsecured creditor and have demanded a higher figure - which should be no surprise.

 

Working backwards from £25m and taking the quoted 10% figure for the unsecured creditors

 

25-14-.8=10.2 for HMRC - about 36% on very shaky figures, but plausible

 

But if we then add that back in we get

 

£25m gets a points deduction

£26.2m gives 25% to the unsecured creditors with no points deduction.

 

Is £1.2m worth losing 15 points for in any logical scenario? My point is that if HMRC are an unsecured creditor, the numbers to avoid a points deduction look pretty low. If HMRC are not, then the unsecured creditor figure is itself low and the difference between a points deduction and not is pocket change for anyone who owns a private jet.

 

Now, the most likely thing here is that I’m missing something obvious, and I’ll be grateful if someone can point the flaw in my logic. If not, either the figures from the journalists are wrong, or there is something that I’m missing – maybe Mel’s soft loans? Maybe the MSD stadium loan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or with the payment plan only the first year come from the bid itself the following two years comes from other funds? In that case the amount could be 5% in year 1 15% in years two and three. Vastly reducing the amount needed to come out of the purchase bid

35 minutes ago, admira said:

Cheeky gets! Did I get a credit? ?

Not that I saw - I’ll try to get a photo at the next game I’m there

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Does 35p in the pound over 3 years suggest that the Club will be paying the debts out of it's own income?

Possibly, not sure. But with any agreement plan it’s got to come from somewhere 

In fact the 35p in the pound option has been there since 2015.

https://www.restructuring-globalview.com/2015/06/english-football-league-toughens-stance-on-administrations/

24 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Similar... an "agreed business plan".

I can't see that business plan allowing DCFC to pay transfer fees though, when there are creditors still owed money. I reckon it'll be free transfers only for 3 years.

Not true, the agreement in place would mean we’d have to live within our means taking that into account. Exiting administration with an agreement in place wouldn’t mean we can’t pay fees

1 hour ago, RamBeauIV said:

It might be to accommodate a payment plan for HMRC over 3 years if they aren't gonna settle for 25% now.  An extra year of EFL budget scrutiny and restrictions is the downside.

EFL rules have included the option of 35p in the pour over a payment plan instead of 25p in the pound as a lump sum - it’s just that most people have ignored it, including journalists, because it’s easier to say we are doomed.

Wow - looks like someone’s finally caught up with what I posted weeks ago. I’d we didn’t have to pay 25p in the pound to avoid sanction.

its been the case for years that it’s a choice if 25p in the pound up front or 35p in the pound over a payment plan. 

I noticed at the Preston game the club have nicked this thread for half time entertainment on the big screen

20 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

The issue is that the sanction is tied into actually exiting admin - we won’t know if we’re going to get a sanction until a deal is agreed, signed off with the creditors and we actually exit admin.  It’s very unlikely that that is done and dusted before the end of the season. And if it gets beyond that, there’s no way the EFL apply the deduction to a season that’s already finished.  If we’re already down, it’s defeating the entire objective of the sanction, and if we stay up, we’re edging into dual-fixture list nonsense again.

I think they’ll do the dual fixture stuff again. If we are already down then the deduction would be applied next year anyway. 

22 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

The points deduction would be next season, surely?

If we manage to get enough to stay up it would be applied ti this seasons total to relegate us, 

22 hours ago, curb said:

Amazing how people still think we could have the points deducted this season, there’s no way that will happen.

It can and has been done before. Any sanction made after the fourth Thursday in March can be applied to that season if it would mean relegation, if relegation is already assured it gets applied to the following season