StantonRam

Anyone know where I can buy a Sombrero locally?  Matlock/Bakewell area.  

Oooooh, "entitled and arrogant" eh?  I can't let that pass without a reply.

Just as, in the real world, some people are richer or more charismatic than others, so in the football world some clubs are bigger than others.  It's just a fact.  Some clubs overachieve relative to their size, level of support, previous successes and available budget, well done to them.  Others underachieve relative to those factors and infuriate their fans as a result.

Therefore, I see no "entitlement" or "arrogance" in the observation that we are bigger than Forest Green Rovers.  They have overachieved, well done to them.  We will be in League 1 because we underachieved, not so much on the pitch but in the boardroom.

"We won't be here long" criticises no one.  It is a prediction or an aspiration, take your pick.  I would be prepared to put money on the proposition that, if any of the PL teams who usually reside in the top half were one day relegated to the Championship (and it does happen and it has happened), their fans would probably sing something similar, and be entirely justified in doing so.

Part of the modern Zeitgeist seems to be that acknowledging the reality of any kind of inequality is viewed as being the same as either morally approving of that inequality or wanting to make that inequality even worse.  It is NOT the same.  Plus, it's only football folks, get some perspective already!

If we would be "arrogant" for singing that song in the context in which we will be operating next season, when ON THE PITCH we do not deserve to be in League 1, then it seems that the "politics of envy" are alive and well.

You are entirely "entitled" to critique my suggested song lyrics, and you have your opinion and that's fine.  On the other hand, there is reality. 

The last time I looked, football was, erm, a competitive sport, with league tables and knockout cup competitions etc.  Or is that a bit too Darwinian for modern people?

OK, I obviously wasn't clear before.  Apologies.

"We won't be here long" is a reference to not being in League 1 for long, i.e. only one season.

Either I overestimated people on here or there are some very literal minded folks around.  Or both.

"We won't be here long" is not a criticism of anyone.  For example, if Everton got relegated to the Championship they would be singing the same thing, where's the sense of humour guys?

Song for next season, to be sung at all away games...

"We won't be here long

We won't be here looooo-oooong

We're Derby County

We won't be here long"

Ever since 2008 we've basically alternated between seasons when we were near the top/playoffs (Mac/Lampard) and seasons when we've been near the bottom and in a relegation scrap (Clough/Rooney).

During the latter type of season we fretted and lost sleep imagining that to be cast into the netherworld of League 1 would be the very worst thing that could ever happen.

Well now it has.  And we're still breathing.

We could have settled for being an average Championship side with occasional forays into the top league.  Instead we fell for someone who dreamed big, spent big, pushed the envelope, and ultimately crashed and burned.

It's now clear that although the EFL mishandled many things we are now where the actions of our previous owner mean we deserve to be.

In Scotland, Rangers had to fight their way back from their League 2 for similar transgressions.  It could be far worse.

SO, let's focus on what we have that most teams in League 1 don't.

30,000 or so loyal fans, PL quality stadium & infrastructure, a history including winning the top league twice, an Academy producing PL standard players (e.g. Hughes/Hendrick/Plange/Ebosele etc), a high profile manager who has the loyalty of everyone, new ownership, and presumably a wage/transfer budget that will be competitive in League 1.  Most League 1 teams would love to be us.

Factor in also the 'bounce back' factor (Bournemouth for example) and what we hopefully have ahead of us is a revival similar to the Cox/Smith years.  Bring it on!

Fantastic display and result last night!  Probably too late but maybe not...???

I know I bang on about this a lot, but we simply wouldn't even be in with even this remaining (slim) chance if not for the amazing work of the Academy providing a lifeline of skilful, energetic and committed young players.  Every time someone leaves and we fear the worst, along comes another Academy player to step up and take their opportunity with relish.  Long may it continue!

This is going to be absolutely crucial next season with spending still restricted due to much lower TV income, FFP etc.  CK isn't going to spend big until we are in the Championship playoffs, especially in view of recent experience.

I think next season we can expect a similar blend of bargain signings of experienced journeymen willing to drop a league to play for Wazza, together with more Academy talent.  On the evidence of this season it might well work!

COYR!!!

Reading won, aaaaargh!

?

Trust Stoke to gift Reading exactly the result we dreaded.

Painful though it is to admit, sorry folks but I think that's it now.

I think that to win 3 games more than Reading with 6 games to go is just too tall an order.

Goodbye Fulham hello Fleetwood.

Get the ownership sorted ASAP, accept the -15 for next season if that's what it takes, new chapter, move on.

Goodbye Premier League dreamland, hello League 1 reality.

Been looking at the numbers.

It's now all about the IFs.

IF we can win 4 out of 6 games but get nothing from the other 2 then we will have 28 + 12 = 40 points.

IF Reading only win 2 out of 7 games and lose the other 5 then they will have 34 + 6 = 40 points.

IF Baaaaaarnsley only win 3 out of 7 and lose the rest then they will have 29 + 9 = 38 points.

IF all the above happens then we stay up on GD, probably needing to win and for Reading to lose on the very last day.

The final IF is therefore this.

IF Reading win 3 from 7 then we need to win 5 from 6.  IF they win 4 from 7 then nothing but 6 wins from 6 will keep us up.  IF they win 5 from 7 we are down whatever we do.

The signs from yesterday are that Wayne and the team know how to tactically adjust to get in front and then stay there.  Whether that will be enough now depends to a great extent on what Reading do.

Last season we were down and then were saved by Marlon Pack of Cardiff with 10 or so minutes remaining.

I suspect that on May 7th we will be in a similar situation, needing to win and for Reading to lose to stay up.

It ain't over yet!!!

Point of information - A Bridge Too Far was Arnhem in autumn 1944, Remagen was on the Rhine in March 1945.

I called it a month ago wanting to be wrong.  Unfortunately I wasn't.

In the end we just didn't have enough in the tank to get the results we needed, and Reading on present form are more or less there.

Fight on until it's mathematically finished, then after that give "the kids" some playing time ready for next season.  They'll need it.  46 League 1 games, Carabao Cup, FA Cup 1st round, could be 50-60 games altogether with a couple of cup runs.  Playing the likes of Fleetwood rather than the likes of Sheff Utd.

The only way is up!

OK, someone asked "what should the west do"?  A few thoughts:

Refuse to trade with Putin and extract ourselves from all contracts of any kind as soon as legally possible.

On a personal level, send any Russian person who attempts to defend this stuff to Coventry (sorry).  There might be some theoretical "justification" for grabbing Crimea and the Donbas from their point of view but...bombing Lviv?  Bombing hospitals with kids inside?  I think not.

Announce a No Fly Zone west of the Dnieper.  Simple to operate, it's a damn great river, you can't miss it.  Whatever excuses they might make for intervening in the east, there is no excuse whatever to bomb in the west.  The NATO aircraft should fly very high and send information to Ukrainian ground forces (rather than engaging Russian planes or missiles themselves) so that the Ukrainian forces can target and fight back against any Russian airspace incursions west of the Dnieper.  This would also have the advantage of reassuring non combatants that if they can somehow get over the Dnieper they will be much safer and do not need to leave Ukraine to reach safety.  This in turn will lessen the pressure on neighbouring countries.

Finally - bitter pill - persuade the Ukraine government to in effect trade land for peace.  Let Putin have Crimea and the Donbas, get the Russian army out of everywhere else, and wait for a better government in Russia post Putin.  Persuade Ukraine to not join NATO - they have already committed to this publicly.  BUT, Ukraine should NOT accept any limits on it's armed forces, why should they in view of recent events?

Europe's rearmament should (with deep regret) continue.  Sanctions should continue long term until Russia leaves Crimea and the Donbas.  Free referendums then to be held in these areas under direct UN supervision and see which way the people vote once they have returned.  Crimea will probably vote for Russia, the Donbas probably for Ukraine.  Agreement that the Donbas should be completely demilitarised (under UN supervision) by BOTH sides.  Demilitarised buffer zone to include Kharkiv.  If China assists Russia then sanctions and refusal to trade as well.  If China is sensible it will keep its head well down, because the west is (FINALLY!) starting to take a moral stand, where possible, about who we trade with.  At some point a more pragmatic government will emerge in Russia with which we can do business.  Russia may yet have it's own "Maidan".

No reward for Putin simply stopping the bombing or withdrawing from the rest of Ukraine, why reward what would simply be a return to normality?  Continued refusal to deal with this gangster government.

In the UK, open up the remaining North Sea oil and gas fields as a temporary stopgap and then (taxes up if necessary) go for a "dash for renewables" (tidal power, green hydrogen etc), aiming for long term self sufficiency of 70-80%.  Also a "dash for food", incentivising organic sustainable agriculture as well as tree planting, making non meat food options cheaper (meat tax?), penalising imports of non seasonal produce (tariffs).  We learned to live more simply during the lockdowns, why not continue that good work?

The big lesson here is that globalisation benefits only the rich and powerful and makes us hostages to despotic overseas governments.  A century from now, those who follow us may come to think that Putin actually did us all a favour by reminding us of this uncomfortable fact, and forcing us to change our ways out of sheer disgust.

That will do for starters I think.

Over and out.

Quote

I appreciate this is emotional and it seems you have strong affection for Ukraine and likely great hurt as to what is happening there. But, play decent or find another thread - thx!

This illustrates the extent of the problem.  The issue is not my alleged "affection" or "emotion": this is just a standard tactic to discredit a contrary position by implying that the other person is emotional and therefore irrational.  As for "play decent", well it's the lack of decency that's the issue, and unfortunately if you don't condemn the actions of the invaders, whatever their reasons, then you are complicit whether you like it or not.

In 1939 various people such as Orwell and Mosley were forced by the outbreak of war to stop carping from the sidelines and CHOOSE A SIDE.  When such acts of inhumanity are perpetrated, sadly we are now in the same position.  You can argue the nuances of international diplomacy and geopolitics all you like.  You can point out aspects of the history that support Russia, and I agree that these do exist.  In the end however, the response is so wildly disproportionate and murderous that, unless you condemn it, you are de facto supporting it.

Once again, it's not Russia or its people that are the problem, it's their government.  Russian soldiers, lied to and sent to die by their own government, are victims too, and their deaths are every bit as tragic and unfair as anyone else's.  However, they are combatants and they are armed, unlike Ukrainian civilians hiding in a basement.  Let's be absolutely clear.  War crimes are being committed by Russia, and all we can hope for is that eventually someone will ultimately be brought to justice for this wanton butchery of innocent people.  So, once again - if you do not condemn outright these acts of barbarity, then you are de facto supporting them.  That is the reality of your position as you have set it out, unless you are able to clarify it somehow and convince me otherwise.

Au contraire, I was in Crimea 15 years ago, and I am well aware that it is mostly Russian speaking and that most people there would probably (in a genuinely FREE vote, if this was ever permitted) decide to be part of Russia.  That also applies in the Donbas, I am well aware of that.  That is not the issue here.  My issue is not with Russians per se, as a minority they did deserve better treatment than they received, on that we do agree I think.  I am also aware of the 1954 Khrushchev decision, so please don't patronise me or make assumptions about where I get my information or how much I know.  However, we disagree in that I stand by my Hitler analogy absolutely.

None of what you say justifies this invasion or the bombing of civilians.  The invasion is rather like me responding to you treading on my foot in the street by stabbing you repeatedly and murdering you.  Russia has squandered ANY moral capital it might ever have had by this invasion, and your support for it is something of which you should be deeply ashamed.  All that Putin has achieved is to make his country, justifiably, a world pariah.

When only Belarus, North Korea and Eritrea support you against the rest of the world you definitely have a problem.  Or is it that only you are sane and the rest of us are mad?

"Other point - if the Burnley BNP was rounding up people in community halls and burning them alive or being funded by billionaire oligarchs (Kolomoiski) then I might want something done about it. Again, goes back to my point, I haven't always agreed with the way Ukranian governments (Zelensky and Turchynov and Poroschenko) allowed that infiltration and activity and it undoubtedly fomented a previously volatile situation."

Do you actually have any evidence for these assertions?  Unfortunately there has been a lot of disinformation around the Donbas situation.  My analogy with 1938 is sound I believe.  Consider the analogy more closely:

1933-8 - Sudeten Germans (and Slovaks come to that) had been living peacefully in a Czechoslovakia dominated by Czechs and with some uneasiness and incidents of petty discrimination.  Hitler sends well funded 5th columnists into the Sudetenland to stir up trouble, magnifying small incidents out of all proportion and agitating for a "return to the fatherland".  FACT - the Sudetenland had been part of Austria-Hungary but never part of Germany.

2009-14 - Russian speakers in Ukraine had been living peacefully in a Ukraine dominated by Ukrainians and with some uneasiness and incidents of petty discrimination (e.g. the foolish attempt to reject bilingualism and impose Ukrainian as the only official state language, big mistake I agree).  Putin sends well funded 5th columnists into the Donbas to stir up trouble, magnifying small incidents out of all proportion and agitating for "liberation" from Ukraine.  FACT - even during the Soviet Union it was always part of the Ukrainian SSR and never part of the Russian SSR. 

Ukraine as an entity dates back 1000 years but it only finally became a country in 1991.  If I had waited 1000 years to have my own country I would take NO lectures whatsoever from Russians about "liberation"!

Dear esteemed colleagues

I beg you, do not be fooled by Kremlin propaganda about supposed "far right nationalists".  They exist, as they do everywhere, but they are a tiny minority and receive very few votes in elections.  And having said that, would we accept our whole country being bombed by a foreign power on the grounds that they wanted to liquidate the Burnley branch of the BNP?  I think not.

Ukraine is a 30 year old imperfect democracy.  It has no more corruption than Russia does, but unlike Russia, where the Mafia run the government, it has been trying to do something about it.  It took the Italian government a century to finally get on top of the Mafia.

Don't be fooled by Kremlin apologists PLEASE.  Have the Ukraine government made mistakes in recent years?  Yes.  Could they have played a cleverer game vis a vis Putin?  Undoubtedly.  However, be under no illusions, the historical parallels are uncanny:

October 1938 - Hitler gets the Sudetenland and the west colludes in the betrayal of the Czechs: 2014 - Putin illegally annexes Crimea and sends his thugs into the Donbas and the west colludes in the betrayal of the Ukrainians

March 1939 - Hitler takes the rest of Czechoslovakia: 2022 - Putin invades Ukraine

late 1939 - Russia invades Finland and gets it's arse kicked by the outnumbered Finns: 2022 Russian invades Ukraine and gets it's arse kicked by the outnumbered Ukrainians

In the interests of full disclosure - I have been to Ukraine many times, I have friends there, I have sent money there, and I have offered accommodation to fleeing Ukrainians if they need it.  I'm not saying what anyone else should do, it's none of my business.  But facts are facts!

Zelinsky - he is their Churchill, he could have b******d off but he didn't, and he knows that if the Russians find him they will kill him.  Who on here would have the balls to do that?  Only if you would do the same for your country should you pass judgement.

And please, do not swallow Putin's lies and look away on the basis of "but what about?" type stuff.  The time for all that has passed.  This is an illegal invasion of a European democracy, and if we allow Putin to triumph then who will be next - Poland?  The Hitler playbook would suggest that this might well be the case, as Putin's ambitions to reconstruct the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact are very well documented in the public domain.

Thanks for reading this far if you have.

hi all

I hope to heck that I'm wrong.

I'm still in favour of giving it a good go and scrapping to the last.

I'm still in favour of attacking all opposition in search of 3 points even if that means we sometimes lose.  There is no alternative.

However, much as my heart wants this miracle to come true, sadly after Wednesday and yesterday my head says otherwise.

BUT I HOPE I'M WRONG.

12 games to go, 8 points adrift.

Points available = 36.

On present form and following their new signings (we have signed, erm, no one), Reading are capable of adding 20 points from 36 available to their existing 29, making 49.

That would leave us needing to add 28 points from 36 available to our current 21, also making 49, but we have GD advantage and will probably retain this, but probably with a slimmer margin. 

If this is how it pans out then even an average of 2 points per game (no defeats, 6 wins, 6 draws) WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH, 24 points not 28.  On present form I just don't see it.

However, 24 points WOULD be enough if Reading were to mess up and only get say 16 points from 36.

SO - it's a 2 horse race for 21st place.  The fewer points Reading get, the longer we can hold out some hope, especially if we can resume a good run and get a few more wins.

I don't believe that Baaaaaaarnsley or Posh can catch Reading, although either of them could still finish above US if things go badly.

As for us, we lack firepower up front, simple as that, in every other department we are at least a mid table side.

One more time, I HOPE I'M WRONG, but sorry guys I think we're down.  We just can't lose this many games at this stage and hope to stay up.  Even a point or two this week would have given me hope.  Very sad day indeed.  As they say in the medical dramas on TV, "I'm calling it".

Go ahead, shoot the messenger if you like, but until these last 2 results I still believed.  I no longer do, but I wish that I did. 

The performances are not the issue, getting the thing in the back of the opposition net clearly IS.  Reading now have 4 proven strikers/goal scorers on their books, we have, erm......

So, we go down fighting proudly till the last, there is at least some dignity in that.

And then, under new ownership, the revival will begin.

And with that new ownership I do hope we can keep hold of at least some of the young players who show such promise and commitment week in week out.  We will need them for the comeback.

The comeback starts here!

I tried to explain the uniqueness of DCFC to a non football friend a few weeks ago and eventually defined us as " a soap opera with some football on the side".  When you factor in the gypsy curse, the coffee cup goal, the seemingly endless parade of criminal/corrupt/incompetent owners, the whole "Damned United" saga etc etc it does seem that way.  Maybe therefore DCFC is a microcosm of the tragicomedy of human existence, at least that's probably what a philosopher would say.

I seem to remember several years ago posting an analogy between the symbolism of the Ram as an animal and the mindset of DCFC fans in terms of the Ram as a symbol of defiance, strength, pugnaciousness etc, it's probably in the archive somewhere.

The uniqueness of the county is a product of its unique geography and history.  My house is built from stone quarried a mile down the road.  The 19th and 20th century world was shaped by technology that started right here.  The hills are green all year round except when it snows.  The sheer rugged beauty of this place finds a reflection in the inner toughness and resilience of the people, of which the Ram is an appropriate symbol.

Therefore, no one who knows the county and its people will be at all surprised by our absolute refusal to be cowed by "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune".  It's called Pride Park for a reason.

"Pride and ferocity are virtues as well as love" - Robinson Jeffers (American 20th century poet)

Good stuff this espresso!

We got lucky today, and as for Lawrence...he's his own worst enemy.

14 games left, 5 points adrift of Reading, who now have an impressive looking strike force.

The essential arithmetic is this.

IF we take 2 points from each game on average, that's 28 points + the 21 we have = 49.

IF Reading take 1.5 points from each game on average, that's 21 points + the 26 they have = 47.

SO - even if things do pan out that way, it will still be squeaky bum time until the very last day.

All the more reason to continue the attack minded, 'death or glory' approach, because unless a few risks are taken we can't catch Reading unless we consistently rack up more points than they do.

I suspect that Reading are about to go on a bit of a run, so we need to do the same, not drop any further behind, hope they slip up a couple of times, and just keep on grinding out results.

These two seasons will be remembered for decades to come.

Good result for us last night I thought.

Posh now have to play us less than 72 hours after leaving the pitch last night.  They will also be distracted by their FA Cup run.

If we beat them on Sat we go above them, psychologically very important at this stage if the lads can do it.  Goal difference is SO important now.

Reading are obviously all over the place, the whole less than the sum of the parts, fans disgruntled, dressing room tensions etc.  Once we are just one place and only a few points below them and with a much superior GD then, given the form of both teams, the pressure will be very much on them rather than us.

I originally thought that we would need 12 points from the 6 games in Feb to bring us within sight of Reading, but it now seems that even if we can just pick up another 3-6 points from the next 3 games we will be breathing down their necks.

As long as this form continues, the fact is that we do seem to be the team out of the bottom 4 best placed to escape the drop.

Finally, if/when we do overtake Reading, the pressure then piles onto the other 3 teams because they will know that, compared to them, we are likely to pick up more points going forward - IF the current run of form continues.

Who would have believed 2 months ago that the table would look like this?

What a season!

At 779 pages, is this the longest ever thread?

Rooney is being the bigger man by saying that he will shake Gibson's hand tomorrow, should hopefully help to diffuse any potential trouble, I just hope he spits on that hand first LOL...

8 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Rooney was careful with his wording yesterday. I took from it we would have the same squad to the end of the season and we have. Anyone saying he’s been lied to by admin and he’s lying to us needs to give their heads a wobble. Yes it’s bloody frustrating and soul destroying but we’ve got money to keep the club afloat while the takeover is hopefully sorted and we’ve still got Bielik Lawrence Bird Knight Buchanan and Festy. The great escape is very much on. 

Exactly right.  The squad now has less depth and fewer options than before, but provided most people stay fit this is still a very competitive team at this level.  Even if we do stay up and have new owners in place for August, one suspects that by then most of this squad will have either retired or been sold, which IMO is why the Academy products are so important, because next season will probably be built around them just as this one has been, whatever league we are in.

These players are potentially the saving grace in all this.  If we keep producing this kind of quality then (a) we can sell a few (b) we need to dip into the shark infested waters of the transfer market less and (c) these guys will run through walls for the shirt, as they are proving week in week out.  There is a connection between the high proportion of home grown talent on display and the level of support that their performances, win or lose, are generating.  We all feel it, and that's why Sunday was sold out.

If they had given up then we probably would have too.  However, because there is so much fight on display on the pitch, the whole football world is watching the drama, and many neutrals are rooting for us to succeed.  We seem to have gone from being the team people love to hate to a new position as everyone's favourite underdogs in a short space of time.

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about" - Oscar Wilde

6 games in February!

Let's have some fun with the stats.

IF we can pick up 12 points from 6 games (3 wins 3 draws or 4 wins 2 defeats) and those around us only get 6 points from 6 games, the table would then read:

Cardiff 32

Reading 28

Rams 27

Peterborough 26

Baaaaaaarnsley 20

1 point from safety and with a far superior goal difference!

Bring it on!!!

Da da                  da daaaaaaaaa da da da                      da daaaaaaaaaa da da daaaaaaaaaaaa da da (Great Escape)

COYR!!!

5 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I don't agree on either front. A lower bid for the club means creditors get less.  None of the unsecured creditors wil get anything until we come out of admin. And if we accept low ball offers now for players w m ay never come out of admin because the poetntial buyers of the club will have nothing worth buying.

Fair enough, but my point was that as things stand, and unless another solution is found, the quickest way out of admin is to accept a low bid from someone who is willing to take the risk.  Not suggesting player sales, just pointing out how some small creditors might view the situation.  Also, just because someone puts in a low bid in return for accepting the huge liabilities and risks going forward, that doesn't mean they are short of cash, just that they don't want to pay over the odds for a business with so MANY risks and liabilities.