WestKentRam

Thanks @B4ev6is  
You can clearly see his influence here with the rainbow marking where he’d guided the ball into the net. 

I have this dream that automatic promotion is secured with CBT playing a major role, and great looking striker but sadly forgotten man Tony Weston slotting home the decisive goal to cause Pride Park to erupt in the final game of the season.

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.
In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.
Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.
Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.
Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.
However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.
Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.
The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?
These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.
Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.
So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?
My suggestions are:
1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.
2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.
Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.
Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

Yep, it made me think of Dave Brailsford instituting things like Team Sky (booooo) taking the cyclists own mattresses with them so they didn't have a bad night's sleep on stage races due to a dodgy hotel bed. 
I/we as fans often concentrate on the actual football, but it seemed to me after frankly spending too much time pondering this, that a lot of non-footballing factors that we can control and adapt to are involved in whether a successful outcome occurs or not. The Groundhog Day experience of some games makes me wonder if we aren't being savvy enough related to these.

It's not nit-picking, it's those fine margins for improvement. 
That's how the England cycling team suddenly started winning all those gold medals. (Although illicit substances allegedly may have played a part! 🙈😂) 

Nope, but if they are mainly used to play in particular conditions, then it helps to have been exposed to what they will face in a game to be able to adapt to what is in front of them.
I'm sure that they are used to different conditions in training, but they don't seem to be able to cope when the weather and pitch dictate that a different approach might need to be taken.
Yes, I'm nit picking here that is my forte, but in L1 were going to face such environments repeatedly and need to do better.

We still created three very good first half chances that probably should have been converted.

I agree, and thought this once again during the game on Saturday that it does my head in playing overly optimistic blind balls in the air down the wings to a wide man who has three or four defenders on him. They are 'passes' with a low % probability that they will come off. It often makes me think of John Beck at Cambridge in the 90s and somehow I am watching this instead of Derby.

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.
In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.
Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.
Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.
Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.
However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.
Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.
The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?
These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.
Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.
So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?
My suggestions are:
1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.
2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.
Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.
Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

I did notice that once near the half way line. Unfortunately we took it about 8 yards away from the foul. But fans were screaming around me - for us to get on with it , many times . We could also have given the ball to CTB when he was in space but took too long . Perhaps we missed Bird . In general I don’t like Wildsmith Lumping every free kick near the half way line .

I agree, but the referee made it clear on Saturday that he wasn't having any of that free-flowing football nonsense, unless it was the opposition making a quick break after bodychecking one of our players.
In general we seem reluctant to play quick freekicks forward when the opportunity arises and, given the manager's oft-stated philosophy, I can only imagine he gets as frustrated with that reluctance as I do.

The fella sat down on the halfway line chewing gum and grinning for over 2 mins was my favourite.  That being said, I'd love a midfielder to show, pick up the ball quickly from the goalie, and move .  At the minute Wildsmith gets it, does the weird calm down thing with his hand for 5 seconds, then hoofs it straight through or passes it to Cashin who sends it down the wing.  We welcome congestion on tight pitches by doing this over and over.

Northampton had two players booked for fouls. They didn't have a single player booked for timewasting. 10 minutes of added time. No bookings for persistent timewasting. Nada 
No wonder Jon Brady was laughing.

No, the scoreboard was definitely not showing how long left for a good eight minutes. I commented on that at the time.

I agree we didn't play well but I wonder whether part of this is we don't cope when the opposition deploys anti-football tactics.
You are right that breaking up momentum is key. It's another aspect we need to deal with, as if we need to practise plays as in American football, rather than rely on a building up a head of steam for a period of time as the opposition can deal with this by going down with an 'injury' and then the moment has passed.
Another thing is I wonder who actually times stoppages to calculate added time. I assumed it was the 4th official, but online sources tend to indicate it is the referee who then tells the 4th official who puts the board up with it. I haven't noticed the ref or 4th official stop-starting a watch with every break in play, so can only think it is a guestimate.
On Saturday with the subs and injuries it felt like between 82 and 90 minutes there was no actual football played. It wasn't clear how much added time was to be put on, and the scoreboard mysteriously seemed to stop showing the time of play towards the end of the match. Again, dark arts from Northampton or more conspiracy theory sour grapes from me?!
 
 
 

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.
In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.
Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.
Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.
Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.
However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.
Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.
The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?
These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.
Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.
So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?
My suggestions are:
1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.
2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.
Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.
Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

I noticed exactly this. On one occasion the ref stopped our quick free kick to give their player a yellow card, on another the usual thing of the free kick not being taken in exactly the right place. All advantage to us was lost. It certainly pays to make the foul.
Looking at the last few games, the opposition has fouled more than us, with the exception of the Port Vale match that was our most comfortable win: 10 v 8 Northampton, 12 v 9 Bolton, 17-11 Reading, 12 v 9 Bristol Rovers. The game that the successful dirty opposition tactics were clearest to me on the night, Reading away back in January, was quite a remarkable 14 v 2. 
Another aspect that I cynically consider is, it would be natural for the ref (usually part time in L1) to prefer a break in play, to give an opportunity for them catch their breath and have a nice little rest.

A clock for, say, 60 mins playing time that stops literally every time the game stops is the best solution……goal kicks, throw ins, subs….the lot.
Doesn’t stop the antics that stop momentum but it renders time wasting a waste of time.
It would take a load of pressure off the refs and 4th officials 

The thing that got me with the Bradley incident was as he was walking off having received the red card, a few of their players were high fiving each other as if to say great job getting him sent off. If felt shades of Ronaldo winking having got Rooney sent off in the 2006 World Cup, apart from of course the game yesterday was more important...
Admittedly we didn't play well but I despised the total anti-football they played, apart from their great goal(!), especially in the second half with their players going down a ludicrous amount to break up the play with stoppages.
The mascot annoyed me as well, getting involved with the players, and trying to wind up our fans right from pre kick off.
The whole game was a shambles and it had the feel of Reading away as it was freezing and very windy, and we just didn't control the ball in the conditions or against such opposition.

We've observed this many times before - the worst thing that can happen in this division is to go 1 down. There are few clubs who don't instantly go into "frustrate and needle" mode when that happens (some do it from the off). If the team are also struggling for rhythm and are performing at well below their best, it makes the task of getting something from the game 10x harder. That's why Waggy's miss and the referee's non-decision were so critical.

Exactly this and its blatantly obvious, the amount of times one of there players went down was really frustrating and the refs seem to pander to it, also it should not take minutes and minutes  to make a sub ...we didn't play well but every time we looked like we maybe getting up a head of steam the game was stopped....and as i said blatant we could all see it 

10 minutes was added on. It's not so much time wasting as interrupting the momentum.
 

The thing that got me with the Bradley incident was as he was walking off having received the red card, a few of their players were high fiving each other as if to say great job getting him sent off. If felt shades of Ronaldo winking having got Rooney sent off in the 2006 World Cup, apart from of course the game yesterday was more important...
Admittedly we didn't play well but I despised the total anti-football they played, apart from their great goal(!), especially in the second half with their players going down a ludicrous amount to break up the play with stoppages.
The mascot annoyed me as well, getting involved with the players, and trying to wind up our fans right from pre kick off.
The whole game was a shambles and it had the feel of Reading away as it was freezing and very windy, and we just didn't control the ball in the conditions or against such opposition.

The thing that got me with the Bradley incident was as he was walking off having received the red card, a few of their players were high fiving each other as if to say great job getting him sent off. If felt shades of Ronaldo winking having got Rooney sent off in the 2006 World Cup, apart from of course the game yesterday was more important...
Admittedly we didn't play well but I despised the total anti-football they played, apart from their great goal(!), especially in the second half with their players going down a ludicrous amount to break up the play with stoppages.
The mascot annoyed me as well, getting involved with the players, and trying to wind up our fans right from pre kick off.
The whole game was a shambles and it had the feel of Reading away as it was freezing and very windy, and we just didn't control the ball in the conditions or against such opposition.

The thing that got me with the Bradley incident was as he was walking off having received the red card, a few of their players were high fiving each other as if to say great job getting him sent off. If felt shades of Ronaldo winking having got Rooney sent off in the 2006 World Cup, apart from of course the game yesterday was more important...
Admittedly we didn't play well but I despised the total anti-football they played, apart from their great goal(!), especially in the second half with their players going down a ludicrous amount to break up the play with stoppages.
The mascot annoyed me as well, getting involved with the players, and trying to wind up our fans right from pre kick off.
The whole game was a shambles and it had the feel of Reading away as it was freezing and very windy, and we just didn't control the ball in the conditions or against such opposition.