Asanovic70

Yes, I agree. We've always undersold our best talent. One thing I'd say about the Forest Academy is that they always nurtured it even in bad times and fallen upon it as a back-up resource (Swansea in recent seasons). We may laugh at them, but Mark Warburton's tenure (FFP/embargo, al-Hasawi) saw several young players promoted to the first team, including Matty Cash.
Let's be honest, Forest have regularly sold Academy/home-grown prospects for eight figures. 
I think we are going to value our players more under own new owner & be less easy to exploit after what happened to us because we are going to have to be a club who has to generate its own income than rely on a benefactor who may then walk away.

I don't know really (Forest's survival), part of me cares as it's our arch rival, the other couldn't care less except, repeating myself, they cannot keep spending sums like this as it is unsustainable. FWIW, I think they'll survive: Bournemouth are out of their depth, Southampton have had too much upheaval. I think Leeds have gone on the sort of run that is ominous, 2W in 17. They were lucky to survive last season. 
The Championship is full of ex-PL clubs who had (lengthy) spells in the PL but are now struggling with finances etc, such as Birmingham, Cardiff. Stoke are backed by the Coates family & look where they are. 
On 5live (Sunday), there was a euphoric Forest fan on the phone-in. He took issue with the criticism that they are buying 'PL survival', comparing it to Chelsea, who spent a similar amount on just a couple of players. To paraphrase, he remarked 'We've only spent £186m on 30 players.' Only £186m! He did make the good point, however, that they do have some younger talent: Gibbs-White, Williams, Johnson.
I used to like Alan Biggs, still think he is a good reporter, but couldn't believe how he admired Forest for setting their stall on PL survival after they signed Lingard (twitter).
 Forest have a 30k stadium, (limited revenue). OK, they will receive a lot of money through tv revenue. While they do have the above players as potential assets, they have spent heavily in contrast to the likes of Brighton & Brentford, both recently promoted in the last five years, but who operate under a completely different strategy,  with owners who are involved in the betting/data industry (Bloom & Benham) and use that methodology with how their operate especially in buying talent (low) and selling high.
Interestingly, Chelsea now remind me of the customers, in the Harry Enfield sketch (I Saw You Coming) who used to buy any old tat for a ridiculous price. Only it's young tat that's ridiculously priced on 7 year contracts.
It's a Smashie smash-up of Julio Geordio & I Saw You Coming.

This is why I liked Nigel Clough despite whatever criticism (legitimate or not) he receives on here. He came in & rebooted the Academy at a time when we had so few prospects emerging and that took a few years.  He often would ask a player to fill in at another position (make an attacker deputize at full back) as part of their football education so that they gained an understanding of that role, and it might make them realize their overall responsibility to the team & how they often dovetail together since football is also about units and partnerships.
Lionel Pickering (2003), at the opening of Moor Farm, famously envisaged it as producing a steady stream of Academy graduates into the first team ( a team built on them).
I think we are beginning to see that fruition, but it has often come against a chaotic background of two takeovers (2008) & (2022), perhaps a turnover  of staff, so you wonder how much this has impacted upon it. I do think though, we now have an owner (& manager, as well as any future management) who will buy into it as a resource.

TBF I said pretty much the same the night you beat Malmo. 

I'm still negotiating as a free agent, happy to bolster the ranks of non-playing players at forest for a knock-down wage of £25k/wk, representing a significant saving over not signing me to not play, i'm in my 40s so I've plenty of years of not playing left in me. If forest are serious, they need to get this deal done.
I promise to bring my half arsed shoulder shrug and i don't wanna but i suppose i'll do it work ethic to the dressing room.

They sold all theirs for a lot more money though. Burke, Brereton, Appiah etc

Ive probably said this before, but I used to have a bit of info about how the Forest academy worked from a mate who was in it for a good number of years. Had a long chat with him about it and the comparison with a club like Derby’s at that time (this was maybe 3-4 years ago).
How he saw it, and I’m not saying he’s right or wrong, but when you are at a cat 1 academy (or atleast a highly regarded academy) they had is a system in place that had been going for 20 years and was pretty regimented and they know it works. Which is important in that it takes years and years for an academy to get to that stage. The other big thing was that they learnt a multiple of positions and had to be ready to play any position because they could be playing anywhere in an academy game. Now I’m sure this happens at every academy and isn’t too mind blowing as a concept, but he said this was really important because you had to be ‘ready’ to play any position. In simple terms, you had to be an ‘athlete’ essentially. You couldn’t just be technically gifted or a runner, you needed a bit of everything.
This made me think back to the Hughes, Bennett, Hendrick era when looking back they were all players who were quite regimented in a style and position before they were even ready for professional football.  Something like that is, presumably, only going to reduce a market value because you are buying a limited player. What I think at that time is that we although they looked good prospects we were only bringing players through with one or two key attributes rather than 3,4,5. In hindsight Hughes should have been worth a lot more than Burke, but my guess is Burke had a more rounded education at that time. What’s interesting is with Knight, Bird and Sibley and what happens when they are eventually sold. All now are starting to flourish even though it’s taken a couple of seasons to really get going but they are more rounded players than what we once had.
The other thing he never really admitted but kinda alluded to is that they essentially have one player in each age category that they ear mark for the first team and they are the bread ticket for the academy. Everyone else, despite some having a lot of potential get released and end up at the very bottom of football and it’s too demoralising for a lot of them and they go do something else. So what I mean is, to get the one player worth millions they have to invest and get a lot of players through their system to find a bit of a diamond in the rough. 
Whether that’s all accurate I don’t know (this chat was in a pub a few years back!) and I’m sure there’s other bits to it. I do think it’s interesting and i think it suggests that our academy was so close to being a real success before administration. 
 
 

By that average, per pound spent and wages you should have around 285 points to our 11 by the end of the season if were comparing.   

I think he deserves the opportunity.
 I can remember a BBC documentary featuring young apprentices at Chelsea Jody Morris & Neil Clement* (both milling about in Harrods), Morris' father was a right Cockney & he came from a very ordinary background (Kensington council estate) so it was a major achievement to win a contract at Chelsea, this before young players' lives were radically altered by the riches of the PL/lucrative contracts. After that, he had a few run-ins, but he's been there & done it, has probably used this experience to mentor young players. It is a great opportunity for him.
Like us, Swindon have had their problems & a new ownership has stabilized things, it seems, and are a club again on the up. It's a club not too far from London so Morris could use his Chelsea links to bring in loans.
*Though middle-aged now, I was too young then to realize that Neil Clement's father was also a famous footballer, Dave, & that Neil is also the brother of Paul who went on to manage us. Sadly, Dave Clement committed suicide so the programme also covered the poignant side of Neil's mother seeing her son emulate his father to become a footballer, and perhaps being concerned about the anxieties that such a career can bring. 
 
 

The documentary is available on YouTube, it was broadcast in 1997. Anyone interested, just type 'Jody Morris, young apprentice, documentary'.
I should warn that it features Graham Rix before he got done for an underage sex conviction as well as being accused & investigated for bullying & racism as a coach at Chelsea.
 

I think he deserves the opportunity.
 I can remember a BBC documentary featuring young apprentices at Chelsea Jody Morris & Neil Clement* (both milling about in Harrods), Morris' father was a right Cockney & he came from a very ordinary background (Kensington council estate) so it was a major achievement to win a contract at Chelsea, this before young players' lives were radically altered by the riches of the PL/lucrative contracts. After that, he had a few run-ins, but he's been there & done it, has probably used this experience to mentor young players. It is a great opportunity for him.
Like us, Swindon have had their problems & a new ownership has stabilized things, it seems, and are a club again on the up. It's a club not too far from London so Morris could use his Chelsea links to bring in loans.
*Though middle-aged now, I was too young then to realize that Neil Clement's father was also a famous footballer, Dave, & that Neil is also the brother of Paul who went on to manage us. Sadly, Dave Clement committed suicide so the programme also covered the poignant side of Neil's mother seeing her son emulate his father to become a footballer, and perhaps being concerned about the anxieties that such a career can bring. 
 
 

I think he deserves the opportunity.
 I can remember a BBC documentary featuring young apprentices at Chelsea Jody Morris & Neil Clement* (both milling about in Harrods), Morris' father was a right Cockney & he came from a very ordinary background (Kensington council estate) so it was a major achievement to win a contract at Chelsea, this before young players' lives were radically altered by the riches of the PL/lucrative contracts. After that, he had a few run-ins, but he's been there & done it, has probably used this experience to mentor young players. It is a great opportunity for him.
Like us, Swindon have had their problems & a new ownership has stabilized things, it seems, and are a club again on the up. It's a club not too far from London so Morris could use his Chelsea links to bring in loans.
*Though middle-aged now, I was too young then to realize that Neil Clement's father was also a famous footballer, Dave, & that Neil is also the brother of Paul who went on to manage us. Sadly, Dave Clement committed suicide so the programme also covered the poignant side of Neil's mother seeing her son emulate his father to become a footballer, and perhaps being concerned about the anxieties that such a career can bring. 
 
 

Does it matter if Forest stay up? They'll receive more PL largesse, yes, but they already appear to have spent heavily on fees, wages & several players 30+ in age with no resale value. Their famed Academy may suffer as the pathway to the first team gets harder with so many established professionals ahead of them. If Lewis O'Brien can get binned after a few months, what hope is there for a young Academy prospect? This may present an opportunity for us to attract them instead, knowing they may get an opportunity at Pride Park especially if we can eventually get back to the second tier.
I agree with the poster who remarks how the euphoria of promotion has turned into a bit of circus. I made the obvious suggestion that they ought to have signed the on-loan players they helped get them promoted, though they have all had a mixed bag of a season, Keinan Davis, Garner (injured) & Spence sent on loan. But they would have been signings that could have been assets &, in a worse case scenario, Forest would have become a yo-yo club but one that hasn't mortgaged itself.
But, seriously, this is not sustainable at the level they are spending for a club of its size (contrast with Brighton). Watching it unfold, is like watching an exaggerated version of ourselves under Mel Morris.
I genuinely think they are heading towards a similar financial crisis down the line. It's not that I wish it, it's just neither of us - and gamblers like me - learn from our mistakes, the cycle of boom & bust, and we've been through it in the mid 80s, the LoG in 2006 after the Three Amigos, Mel Morris. Forest were saved from implosion by the generosity of the Doughty family waiving £75m of debt after Nigel Doughty's passing. Al-Hasawi ran the club in a bizarre manner, leaving them open to sanctions under FFP.
Like us with Mel - He can do what he wants, the Marinakis love-in may ultimately turn sour.
 

They'll be in the air on the way home longer than they were in this tie. 

The gumps will pretend they love it and tbf their younger fans will think its brilliant. Older lot will be gutted that its turned out like this, unexpected promotion with a half decent manager but then the whole club put at risk by a megalomaniac owner who will end up turning it all into a circus by having a bigger playing squad than the cast of Ben Hur.

For what it’s worth I thought West Ham respected the danger we posed stringing 5 across the back and nullifying our wide players giving them no room to cross. Unfortunately we lacked penetration through the middle with Didzy absent and they just waited opportunity to hit us on the break. If I were an Iron I would not have been happy with how negative they were but then again Moyes was playing for his job!

You have to question the role of agents, who act as advisors to these kids. Plange coming from London was always going to be tempted by a move to Palace, but to then go to Lincoln, no disrespect to them, but his career has gone severely backwards!

I once hit a cow's backside with a ukulele.
The cow responded with a rendition of 'When I'm Cleaning Windows'.
 

Derby County v Accrington Stanley
 
5pts
NONE
 
3pts
BathRam72    20
DCFC1388    29
Steve How Hard?    18
StevenageRam    18
WharfedaleRam    16
 
2pts
NONE

1pt
Alan Ramage 4 EVA    8
Amberram    16
AndyB    38
angieram    20
archram    24
Asanovic70    20
BarrowRam    13
Blondest Goat    24
BOB BIGGS    30
BodminRam    25
BramcoteRam84    14
BriggRam    10
Brammie Steve    27
BucksRam    21
Carnero    37
CBRammette    10
Chris_Martin    21
cstand    23
dabber    23
DCFC4LIFE    18
DCFC Kicks    15
dcfc the 1 4me    18
Dean (hick) Saunders    15
DiggerB    7
Dordogne-Ram    19
Elgin_Ram    17
Ellafella    6
EssendonRam    10
FindernRam    17
Fla Ram    21
FlyBritishMidland    28
Foreveram    19
Foxy Ram    17
Grimbeard    17
86 Hair Islands    12
harwich ram    19
HedgeEnder    25
hintonsboots    20
hydraulic ram    20
InstaRam    4
Jase116    23
Jimbo Ram    10
jimtastic56    42
JMC    19
Johnnyoj    11
jono    18
Jourdan    25
Kenavo    25
Kernow    17
LeedsCityRam    32
leroyoftherovers    34
Magicman    8
Marriot Ram99    1
Mckram    20
Mick Brolly    41
MidWalesRam    12
Miggins    21
mozza    19
oohmarkwright    2
OohMartWright    19
Osbaldwick    14
PendineRam    17
Premier ram    16
PrideParkhead    9
RadioactiveWaste    13
ramant62    12
Ramifications    21
rammieib    24
Rampant    15
Ramslad1992    8
Ramsamwidge    15
REDCAR    15
Rich84    11
rynny    28
Scott129    5
sheeponacid    25
SKHunter    12
Sparkle    22
StrawHillRam    16
Ted McMinn Football Genius    20
TF Ram    28
TheHospitalier    20
timlondinium    22
TimRam    22
Topram    15
True Ram    23
Van der MoodHoover    12
Wolfie    23
Wolfie20    34
Woodley Ram    19
 
Derby County 4 Accrington Stanley 0, Barkhuizen = FRGS.
 

Derby County v Cambridge United
 
5pts
NONE
3pts
Alan Ramage 4 EVA    7
AndyB    37
Asanovic70    19
JMC    18
PrideParkhead    8
r4derby    25
 
2pts
CBRammette    9
 
1pt
Addingham Ram    16
Amberram    15
angieram    19
archram    23
BathRam72    17
Blondest Goat    23
BOB BIGGS    29
BodminRam    24
BramcoteRam84    13
BucksRam    20
Carnero    36
Chris_Martin    20
ColonelBlimp    29
cstand    22
dabber    22
DCFC1388    26
DCFC4LIFE    17
DCFC Kicks    14
Dcfcsr92    1
dcfc the 1 4me    17
Dean (hick) Saunders    14
DesertRam    12
DiggerB    6
Dordogne-Ram    18
Elgin_Ram    16
Ellafella    5
EssendonRam    9
Fla Ram    20
FlyBritishMidland    27
Foreveram    18
Foxy Ram    16
86 Hair Islands    11
harwich ram    18
HedgeEnder    24
hintonsboots    19
hydraulic ram    19
ilsonram12    26
Jase116    22
Jimbo Ram    9
jimtastic56    41
Johnnyoj    10
Jourdan    24
Kenavo    24
Kernow    16
LeedsCityRam    31
leroyoftherovers    33
Malty    12
Mckram    19
Mick Brolly    40
MidWalesRam    11
Miggins    20
mozza    18
oohmarkwright    1
OohMartWright    18
Osbaldwick    13
Premier ram    15
RadioactiveWaste    12
ramant62    11
Ramifications    20
rammieib    23
Rampant    14
Ramsamwidge    14
REDCAR    14
Rich84    10
RodleyRam    15
rynny    27
sheeponacid    24
SKHunter    11
Simmo's left foot    11
Sparkle    21
Steve How Hard?    15
StevenageRam    15
StrawHillRam    15
Ted McMinn Football Genius    19
TF Ram    27
TheHospitalier    19
timlondinium    21
TimRam    21
Topram    14
True Ram    22
WharfedaleRam    13
Wolfie    22
Wolfie20    33
Woodley Ram    18
Yani P    18
 
 Derby County 1 Cambridge United 0, Dobbin = FRGS
 

No problem, keeping you lot happy is a thankless task..

Corruption
FIFA, UEFA, FA's, EFL etc.
Money laundering
Sportswashing
Human trafficking
Some fans behaviour
VAR
Players and owners lack of class and sportmanship
And soooo much more.

Yeah, I'm done with "professional" football.

Bolton Wanderers  v Derby County
 
5pts
AndyB    34
BOB BIGGS    28
Carnero    35
ColonelBlimp    28
Foxy Ram    15
ilsonram12    25
jimtastic56    40
Kenavo    23
mozza    17
rynny    26
TF Ram    26
 
3pts
NONE

2pts
Asanovic70    16
BodminRam    23
cstand    21
DCFC1388    25
Jase116    21
LeedsCityRam    30
Ted McMinn Football Genius    18
Topram    13
 
1pt
angieram    18
archram    22
Chris_Martin    19
dcfc the 1 4me    16
Dordogne-Ram    17
EssendonRam    8
Fla Ram    19
FlyBritishMidland    26
harwich ram    17
HedgeEnder    23
Jourdan    23
Mick Brolly    39
Miggins    19
OohMartWright    17
Osbaldwick    12
PendineRam    16
Ramifications    19
rammieib    22
Rampant    13
REDCAR    13
TheHospitalier    18
timlondinium    20
WharfedaleRam    12
Wolfie    21
Wolfie20    32
Woodley Ram    17
 

Bolton Wanderers 0 Derby County 0, '0' = FRGS.
 

Instinctively its not unreasonable to think we should be finishing top 6 given the quality in the squad. And picking up the playoff winners trophy from a sour Rick Parry in May would be a magnificent piece of football poetry.
To finish top 6, we need to be aiming around 74 points as a minimum - that is the average points tally of the 6th place team in League One over the past 10 seasons. Good news is we're currently on for 74/75 based on our current results & under Warne, his average per game is 1.67 which nets out to 77 over a full season. Problem is Warne's Derby have faced many of the lesser sides in the division - the average current position of Warne's league opponents is 15th (Rosenior's was 10th by the way)
In short, I think we need to start seeing more results against top 10 rivals before we can start confidently predicting top 6 - Rosenior managed 3 wins against them in his time here (Barnsley in 4th, Peterborough in 8th & Wycombe in 6th). Warne has yet to beat anyone outside of the bottom 6, with the exception of Bristol Rovers in 10th.
Today's game is a big marker then - beat Bolton on their patch & top 6 starts to look realistic as a minimum.