Gringo

Raising the money to purchase the club is only half the battle, the other half is having enough cash for working capital to finance ongoing operations for at least 12 months and also to reach an agreement with the creditors. I think the HMRC could be convinced to drop their claim if it was a supporter group taking over, also the EFL would take a more sympathetic attitude to football debts.

So here would be my thoughts and actions

1. Nominate a core of people with business and financial experience to reach out to the administrator to get sight of the books, there will already be a data room as the club have had a number of potential purchasers over the past months, creditor situation is straight forward as those numbers will be in the hands of the administrator. 

2. After going through the numbers prepare a business plan laying out cash forecast requirements for purchase and ongoing trading.

3. Having identified total cash required  open a subscription for people to buy shares in the club minimum £50 per share total  initial offering say 1 million shares, even the poorest fan could afford 1 share, the most well off 100 shares plus so there would be a good distribution amongst the fan base, the money would not be collected unless any offer for the club was accepted and enough promises of cash made.

It would be a simple process but the execution would depend on getting a good deal on the purchase price and a good response on the share offering.

2 hours ago, angieram said:

Have you ever been to Moor Farm? State of the art facilities there, albeit on rented land. It would make a brilliant spa, or sports injuries facility or corporate venue for team building. A huge gym, indoor pitches, dining facilities, hydro pools, offices, classrooms, changing rooms. And goodness knows how many pitches, some all weather. Maybe we should rent it out? 

I think its big drawbacks are no facility for overnight stays and a council reluctant to give planning permission for any further developments. 

MSD charge is against the lease only on Moor farm

I listen also to their twice weekly podcast as it is good listening on my commute into work, however they are obsessed with the rams and slag them off at every opportunity which is annoying, they also laugh at their own jokes which is doubly annoying.

I will listen tonight on my way home but don't expect any great revelations from him.

2 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You are describing the sequence of events when a bank makes the appointment. That’s not what has happened here. The board can’t immediately file, because they have to give MSD notice of intention. That allows MSD to choose the administrator. 

But I agree some of this is weird. The comments in the club statement about MSD are odd. It’s quite possible MSD asked the board to issue notice of intent because MSD want to take control but don’t want to be seen as the aggressor. Or they just want time.  Taking control does not mean becoming owners but we can’t rule that out.
 

I think it’s possible MSD will now be in touch with potential buyers. They may even be hatching a plan to arrange a sale without going into administration. The biggest impediment to that is the size of the debt to HMRC 

Point taken , my comments came from personal experience when the bank - Lloyds,  pulled my working credit line, regarding HMRC you can bargain with them if the alternative is nada. I think your thoughts on MSD are interesting because why were Barclays the joint charge holder on the Stadium paid in full last Wednesday, this gives MSD total control of not just the stadium but they have a very wide charge over all the goods chattels and future earnings of the Rams, also backed by a PG from Mel Morris, MSD are now driving the agenda, still no sign of the administrator banging on the front door.

28 minutes ago, Birdyabroad said:

Knowing Derby, if this lad ever makes his England debut, we’ll probably have to pay Liverpool! ?

Although we’ll only be able to offer them some chocolate buttons now ?

John Percy is reporting the Rams will get £100,000  as soon as this lad makes hist first team debut for Liverpool 

43 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

only if they can from the operating income  

Usually the PFA will step in and help pay wages I think, also the Administrators, are not the clubs friends they are the equivalent of jackals who live off the corpses of companies that are ill,  "there is a place for them but it has not been dug yet"

I still think something weird is going on, normally the sequence of events is

1. Directors/owners decide as they cannot pay the bills as they fall due, they need to put the club into administration so as they are not trading whilst insolvent which would leave them open to serious legal peril.

2. They take advice and approach insolvency specialists.

3. Notice is filed and taken to court for authorisation to appoint the administrators.

4. Once authorisation granted Administrators arrive at the company/club get the door keys and take control of all the bank accounts, petty cash etc.

5. They then send in some junior staff to start pulling together all the financial information and prepare a creditors listing and any debtors who owe the club money.

Normally the administrators arrive same day or day after administrative order approved by the court, so my conclusion is that as no one has arrived at the stadium with that order, technically the club is not yet in administration.

I also find it a little strange that the club has not bought in some turnaround expertise to work on a plan to trade through the current situation especially as Mel Morris stated that the club could  now trade within its means going forwards, obviously there has been an event to trigger this situation, which I guess we will never find out, however as the club cannot be wound up whilst under administration, although the administrator can liquidate the club if there is no hope of saving it as a going concern I think that the event to trigger this could have come from the HMRC with a threatened winding up order.

However I believe that until the administrator bangs on the front door there could be some hope.

3 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

I reckon Rooney might waive most of his salary so as to stay on. 

I doubt he his taking his salary at the moment

No they don't make that information public, anyone expressing an interest in purchasing the club will be given access to the numbers but under an NDA. After the administration is finished there will be a report going to all the creditors listing the information.

Just now, Yani P said:

It's a shame in a way that there is this 28 day period for fans to put in a bid. Not knocking that concept by the way but just get a feeling that we might otherwise have been in and out in no time at all..

Prepacked administrations not allowed now since 4/30/21

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

If Mel has lost £200m then that must include the stadium? In which case he said he’s not expecting to get any back. Does that mean he’ll be handing the ground over to the new owners for nowt or nominal fee?

Unlikely

9 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Is that the same @Charlotte Ram who was scathing of posters a few weeks back that Mel would consider Administration?

Yes Mea Culpa, I still think this part of a wider strategy by him BTW we are not in Administration until a judge appoints the administrator, so I live in hope.

2 minutes ago, Coneheadjohn said:

How much do the administrators charge?

WigAn were charged  £2,266,930.25 by Begbies a 3rd rate outfit and we will be more complicated than them¢64,  I have been thru 4 administrations 1 putting into administration and 3 buying from an administrator.

They only want to clock as many hours as possible because they charge an hourly rate , including admin staff back in their offices at £150/hour thru to  ¢650-700/hr for a partner.

Wigans average was £367/hour  well over 4000 hours

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I think @Charlotte Ramsaid it is possible to resubmit. But I meant the P&S figures - put them in and take the hit. Rather than take the EFL punishment Mel has put us into admin. Does he assume we'll get off the P&S and the latest accounts not yet submitted with a new owner? 

Yes you can restate accounts to companies house and HMRC but they have to have been audited and the restatement signed off by your accountant, I restated 2018-19 because of a stocktake error and this was accepted by HMRC as it was in their favour.

However please note creditors hate restated accounts and so do credit rating agencies.

On 18/09/2021 at 07:09, LeedsCityRam said:

Its pretty dispiriting reading some of these replies. In the situation we find ourselves in, there seems to be a blind faith that a benevolent group of 'investors' will come in & make everything alright. Have we not learnt anything?

In normal times, Derby earn circa 30m turnover...some of it TV money but majority ticket sales & merchanise sales. To put into context, our non-TV turnover will be top 5 in the EFL & in terms of overall turnover, only the clubs with parachute payments will exceed that. The point here is that we have a massive advantage over most at this level & hence the balanced budgets a Supporters Trust would be required to run  would be a realistic ambition to financially run a top 10 Championship club. For those thinking this would be our ceiling, I would argue a) its a damned sight better than where we are now & b) being in that group would keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot especially if we have a breakthrough moment with a very good manager or youth crop/savvy transfers coming good

In terms of organising it, yes the Ramstrust would be the vehicle. I spoke to the Football Supporters Federation back in May about this & they confirmed support/advice would go to Ramstrust as first refusal. Reality though is the supporters trust must be representative of the fanbase hence elections & people being held accountable i.e. the current group can be moulded away from what people perceive them to be at present

The best practice of Trust ownership currently are AFC Wimbledon, 4th in League One with a new stadium. Much smaller fanbase than us & rose from deep non-league. It can be done. We dont realise how powerful we are as fans & our club has a bigger reach than most.

Actual income based on historical data is as follows

Revenue approx £30m

Gate receipts £9.1m. - 30% of revenue

TV money £8.2m - 27% of revenue

Shirts etc £0.275m - 1% of revenue

Commercial activities £4m - 13% of revenue

Sponsorship £5m -17% of revenue

other activities £3m - 10% of revenue

Note how low gate receipts and shirt sales are in terms of revenue.

Dropping to league 1 would reduce TV money to less than £2m preseason, sponsorship would fall away to sub £2m and attendance would fall to any number you can think of but I guess about £5m so in total I think revenue would only be £15m at best falling to league 1 will be a disaster, from which I think it would not recover in 3or4 years.

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How so? If he has a stadium he can't use it for anything but football.

But someone buying Derby County Football club will need a stadium to play at, so Mel could easily play hardball.

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not sure MM has borrowed anything off MSD.

Our parent company appears to have taken loans secured against the stadium and training ground and, I am assuming, has then put that money into the club. Whether that has been introduced as debt or equity in the club I have no idea.

Mel has given MSD a personal guarantee on their loans, so as long as he keeps making payments he effectively has a massive say in the future direction of the club, so this is why Barclays were taken out as joint  charge holders on the stadium last Tuesday, Mel has the Poker equivalent of a pair of aces in the game of finding new owners.

29 minutes ago, Abu Derby said:

I won’t be listening to this if it’s interspersed with music. Radio Derby’s choice of “music” is diabolical in the extreme. Why have they always been 30-40 years behind the times? Are the majority of their listeners in the 80-100 age group?

Because I believe with older records no payment needed to broadcast them and also no decent music made after 1978

27 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Interesting on Barclays being paid back. Where did you get that info? Completely agree it would be strange to pay them off if admin was planned.

Pinsent link is probably a long shot, but gives hope. Any buying firm would have seen the run rate and the growing debt and could have seen this coming so it's a distinct possibility a buyer is waiting in the wings.

Companies house settled on 9/14

5 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Dell were rumoured to be interested in buying the club previously weren't they? 

Only if they could move it on quickly for a profit

There is something super weird about this weeks events;

1 why pay off Barclays if you are going into administration, that does not make sense UNLESS it was Dell that paid off Barclays as the bank also has a charge on the stadium etc, this clears the way for Dell to be in sole  charge of all the assets.

2. Why on earth are Pinsents being appointed the administrators? They are a magic circle outfit and an insolvency this size is really small for them

3. The fake sheiks lawyers were Pinsents

We have to wait 28 days before any potential buyer is flushed out but my guess is there is one.

2 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Dell have preferred status for repayment don’t they? 

Yes they have charges including the stadium the lease on the academy and all goods,chattels and future income whilst the loans and there are only 2 charges registered are outstanding.

To get employed by the EFL you have to pass a dope test

2 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

So how do they set their original odds

They use prior form, statistics, historical precedents and expert opinion, 

12 minutes ago, Rev said:

That's why no win no fee lawyers are unheard of.

Of course if you are getting 40% of the settlement for personal injury cases as lawyers in this legal sector do then as that lawyer you can take on any amount of cases as quantity is its own quality.

On litigation cases like the Rams v EFL no lawyer in the world would take a case on a no win no fee basis, as a matter of interest how many cases have you litigated in court.