cheron85

For an individual it's not a big deal - I don't have instagram and I barely use twitter
But for a modern, multi-national, consumer-facing business who needs to be an attractive proposition to sports people, clubs etc I would have thought it's a basic requirement
For your business I'm sure that's true - But you haven't specified what your business is
I can imagine many businesses who don't need one - But I don't think sports management in this day is one of them

A little bit yeh ?
Not sure what your company does - But sports management companies are customer facing organisations with complex client relationships - Having the ability to research them should be an essential part of their business in this day and age - Otherwise recruiters/scouts have nowhere to check them out
20 years ago I'm sure sports management reputation worked by word of mouth - But communication has changed more in the last 20 years than the previous 2000 and it strikes me as the kind of business which should be up to speed with that
https://neweraglobalsports.com/
This shows legitimacy to me

Oddly I was discussing this with the old man the other day
I don't think he's dipped as such - He's just being asked to become a more 'grown up' player
When he burst on to the scene he was lively, intriguing and a bit magic - But mostly floated around doing whatever he wanted - More than Hughes ever did he drifted in and out of the game - Yes, you got those moments of magic but he wasn't as involved in the rest of play
Now, that's great when you have a team around you capable of supporting that - But this season we haven't and Rooney has show that he values every player contributing to every element on attack and (more importantly) defence - I think that's something which Sibley is working hard to address and getting used to - Much the same as Jozwiak it's an element which detracts from their natural game but will benefit them (and us) in the long run
I think give it another year under Rooney (and Macca?) and we could slot Sibley into a deeper number 8 (ish) role like Hughes used to play and he'll be a proper all round central midfielder

Oddly I was discussing this with the old man the other day
I don't think he's dipped as such - He's just being asked to become a more 'grown up' player
When he burst on to the scene he was lively, intriguing and a bit magic - But mostly floated around doing whatever he wanted - More than Hughes ever did he drifted in and out of the game - Yes, you got those moments of magic but he wasn't as involved in the rest of play
Now, that's great when you have a team around you capable of supporting that - But this season we haven't and Rooney has show that he values every player contributing to every element on attack and (more importantly) defence - I think that's something which Sibley is working hard to address and getting used to - Much the same as Jozwiak it's an element which detracts from their natural game but will benefit them (and us) in the long run
I think give it another year under Rooney (and Macca?) and we could slot Sibley into a deeper number 8 (ish) role like Hughes used to play and he'll be a proper all round central midfielder

Oddly I was discussing this with the old man the other day
I don't think he's dipped as such - He's just being asked to become a more 'grown up' player
When he burst on to the scene he was lively, intriguing and a bit magic - But mostly floated around doing whatever he wanted - More than Hughes ever did he drifted in and out of the game - Yes, you got those moments of magic but he wasn't as involved in the rest of play
Now, that's great when you have a team around you capable of supporting that - But this season we haven't and Rooney has show that he values every player contributing to every element on attack and (more importantly) defence - I think that's something which Sibley is working hard to address and getting used to - Much the same as Jozwiak it's an element which detracts from their natural game but will benefit them (and us) in the long run
I think give it another year under Rooney (and Macca?) and we could slot Sibley into a deeper number 8 (ish) role like Hughes used to play and he'll be a proper all round central midfielder

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

Rooney is taking a holistic approach to his job, however. It can be revealed he called a meeting for all Derby’s under-23s and under-18s a fortnight ago to reiterate his demands after he became concerned over an easing of standards.
In strong terms, he told the young players they had much to do before believing they had “made it”. A source said: “He is genuinely interested in the whole club in way that’s not been seen for a long time in a manager.”
 
That's a great sign - A guy who has broken through from the youth setup at his hometown club (at a young age) but showed how important hard work was his entire career - They have to listen to that and great that he's getting so involved in the younger players development 

And that's probably fundamentally where we disagree ? Just one person's opinion and all that
I think most deals these days aren't reported or reported full - Percy does seem reliable but I get the feeling he gets his info from someone at the club who might only have given him the up front fee - We're both speculating so who knows
I also think Rooney is a guy who understands getting game time is the most important thing for passionate players and I reckon he's the kind to let someone move on if he's not gonna get game time - Evans seems to show that and had nothing but praise for Rooney's attitude and openness - Again we're both speculating so who knows
Essentially we're both speculating on all of the reasons and motivations and details of the deal - In the situation where I have very little information I just choose to think there are probably things I don't know and never will - Rather than complaining that it's down to bad finances and complaining about it - And I'm hardly know as a ray of sunshine! ?

I think to @David's point - We don't know what the actual fee was - £700k is reported but it may well be a structured deal (often is with younger players)
Also not like we've had anyone sniffing around for him, links to anywhere or any stand out performances which would garner attention - That plus very little money being thrown around this window means the fee we were likely to get for him was never likely to be high
I almost always think you need to et fringe players go if they want to go, regardless of the age - If you keep them and they're unhappy their performances will suffer, they won't improve, they might not develop and you end up with a player who's worth less not more - If they were simply an asset then absolutely keep them but the human side of the game is often ignored - We have a manager now who seems to understand that more than any we've had in a while (probably since Macca...)

Would be very surprised if we didn’t have a sell on fee in there so it won’t just be 700k, it’s standard practice now.
Right now, as of today, it’s impossible to say if it’s a good deal or not for either side.
He scored a goal v Man City, great, pleased for the lad, that could be the only goal he scores before going out on loan to League 1 and fading away.
Or he could go on and get sold for £20m and give us a tasty slice of that.
Let’s be honest, he wasn’t a young player that’s come in, put in quality performances and been harshly treated by being left out the team.
I doubt you would find any Derby fan that would have had him in our fantasy starting 11.
Pleased for the lad, I’m sure it will be in our interests he does well. 

Overall very interesting and thanks very much to @Red Ram for the summary as I could not be bothered to listen
Think most footballers are a bit arrogant but it's part and parcel of being told they are gods gift since they were 10 - Thorne I definitely think at least has some right to be that way cos he's still (IMO) one of the best footballers we've had at the club for the last 10 years
Think it's a slightly unfair point about the physio team - They're not doctors so wouldn't know whether the pain is normal or not and would have assumed any pain would be normal - However they probably should have been a bit more proactive
Also, I would assume he did a medical before he arrived on loan and wouldn't have expected any issues to have cropped up over a summer of not playing or training
If you think of the kinds of appearance fees which are normal you'd easily put £500k after 50 games - That works out at £10k per game on average so £15k isn't unusual - and we all know the saga of getting Seth back from Leeds cos we were sue another payment
However I think the structure of 'per game' payments is a little unusual - It helps the selling club massively and is daft for the buying club (I would imagine) - And has gone on to screw the player
This was the final nail in the coffin for Rowett in my eyes - Thorne had been perfectly fine that season and occasionally showed how much better he could be - One poor game where he wasn't even much worse than anyone else was and we never see him again - Bradders was equally bad (if not worse) that day but he gets back in 2/3 games later
Very very poor management and a stinking attitude from Rowett - One of his obvious favourites gets straight back in and another becomes a scapegoat
I think this as much as anything cost Thorne - If he'd had game time at the back end of the season Lampard would have had context and understood his value - The £15k would still have been hanging over his head but (for me) an in-form Thorne provides £15k a game more than Bradders does as a DM - Without that game time at the end of the season Lampard had nothing to base his decisions on and Thorne was out in the cold

Here's a summary of the key points of the Podcast, including details about the clause. This is from memory (with a bit of date checking) so many not be 100% accurate.
    • Early in his career at WBA, Thorne has started to establish himself and was in negotiations for a new contract. However when he did his ACL at West Brom they took his contract offer off the table.
    • When he wants to come on loan to Derby in January 2014, WBA say they'll only sanction the move if he signs a new deal the terms of which are nowhere near those of the contract previously offered. He reluctantly signs so that he can secure the loan move to Derby and play some football.
    • At Derby on loan he has to wait until John Eustace gets suspended to get his chance of first team football. Whilst waiting for his opportunity, he's asked by McClaren (via Paul Simpson), at very short notice to play for the Under-23s to 'get him up to speed' on what was scheduled to be a weekend off for the first team.  Thorne's perspective is that he's come on loan to be part of the first team squad, not the Under-23s and anyway he  has already made firm arrangements for the weekend with some of his friends and so refuses to play. Keogh and Lee Grant both let him know that they thought he was out of order!
    • When he eventually get his chance in the first team, Thorne is, as we all remember, absolutely exceptional and keeps his place in the side. The team spirit in the squad was very strong  (elsewhere Thorne has referred to  Derby as having a 'unique dressing room' at that time) and Thorne said that by the time of the play-off final he no longer felt like a loan player due to the bond he had with the rest of the squad. After *somehow* losing the play-off final, Thorne's agent asked him what he wanted to happen over the summer. Thorne's response was emphatic and unequivocal - "just get me to Derby".
    • Thorne did everything conceivable to make the move happen, submitting transfer request after transfer request ('hundreds') to West Brom and even, on the advice of his agent, going so far as to kick balls away in training etc. Eventually a deal was agreed with WBA but unbeknown to Thorne at the time, the deal included the clause that Derby had to pay West Brom £15k every time Thorne made a first team appearance. Incidentally, Thorne says he didn't really have a full medical when he signed for Derby. He just met up with Neil Sullivan at a hotel who more or less just said "hello again George".
    • Not long after signing, Thorne ruptured his ACL again in a meaningless pre-season friendly on a poor quality pitch and faced a long spell on the side-lines. He returned to the first team towards the end of the 2014/2015 season for a handful of appearances.
    • Thorne made a direct connection between Derby's loss of from after Christmas and McClaren's failure to dismiss persistent speculation about the Newcastle job. He also states that this was the reason why McClaren was ultimately sacked by Mel Morris at the end of that season.
    • Paul Clement took over from McClaren and Thorne made 36 appearances in that season. Thorne's view was that Clement was a fantastic coach but made the mistake of trying to get Derby to play like Real Madrid despite being a Championship side. Nevertheless, when Clement was sacked after Christmas in early 2016 after a winless run of 7 games, Thorne and the rest of the players were absolutely incredulous as they were fifth in the league and still considered themselves serious contenders for automatic promotion. The players were convinced however, that Mel Morris must have a high profile replacement already lined up in order to have made such a decision and were therefore underwhelmed (to say the least) by the appointment of academy coach Darren Wassall. Thorne accepts that, because Wassall wasn't an established manager, not all the players gave him the respect he deserved but also said that Wassall compounded this by making a series of seemingly inexplicably decisions. Snatching a 3-3 draw from the jaws of victory at Rotheram by bringing on two strikers when they were 3-0 up with 15 minutes to go was highlighted as a specific example.
    • Thorne broke his leg on the last match of the season at home to Ipswich, sustaining the worst injury of his career and missed the entire 2016-2017 season. Almost everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong during Thorne's recovery from the double leg break. He was in constant pain and repeatedly told the Derby medical staff there something wasn't right during various stages of his recovery. They reassured him that the pain was to be expected and then later that his now persistent limp was 'psychological' but when Thorne was eventually referred back to the Specialist consultants on a series of occasions, they confirmed that there were serious underlying issues including, metal fittings that were the wrong size, screws that had come loose and an infection in the metal rod inside Thorne's leg, all of which required further surgery and, for the infection, 10 days in hospital on antibiotics. Thorne also felt that prescribed recovery plan during his recuperation placed too much emphasis on weight training. He was reluctant to embark on a fitness programme which would lead to him gaining additional muscle bulk as he was concerned this would impact his mobility. Thorne's view is that injury recovery programmes at football clubs should be more personally tailored to the physique and personal characteristics of the individual player rather than just simply defaulting to weight training.
    • Thorne eventually returned to the first team in 2017/2018 under Gary Rowett. Thorne credits Rowett as being the one manager who gave enough him the time to recover fully from any injuries he incurred, However after what was, by his own admission, a poor performance against Sunderland in March 2018,  Rowett never selected Thorne to play for Derby again.
    • When Rowett left for Stoke and was replaced by Frank Lampard, Thorne did everything he could to ensure he was in top physical condition when he returned for pre-season and says he weighed less than he did when he initially came to Derby on loan in and was fitter than he'd ever been. He was determined to make it impossible for the manager not to select him but after he was the only member of a 23 man squad not to get on the pitch during a pre-season friendly, Thorne went to see Lampard to ask what the problem was. According to Thorne, Lampard was evasive and made what Thorne felt were 'excuses' about him not doing extra voluntary training sessions during pre-season. This would have been on top of the 3 sessions a day they were already doing and Thorne's position was, perhaps understandably, that he was trying to ensure he didn't pick up any more injuries as he didn’t want to 'fall behind the rest of the lads'. Lampard also referenced what were just temporary (daily) fluctuations in Thorne's weight which had, in fact, already resolved themselves by the time of the conversation.
    • Thorne came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to part of Lampard's plans and therefore wanted to play football elsewhere. He was made aware that Steve McClaren, recently appointed by QPR, wanted to sign him on loan and pleaded with Derby to make the deal happen. Derby wanted more money but QPR were under serious financial constraints and stated that they couldn't afford to pay more. Thorne went to see Mel Morris and offered to make up the difference between what Derby wanted and what QPR were offering out of his own wages at a cost to him of £2k per week but Derby refused his offer, insisting they wanted more money directly from QPR. The loan deal didn't happen and Thorne remained at Derby but was excluded from the first team and was left to train with the under-23s (with Martin, Anya and Alex Pearce).
    • A similar sequence of events happened when Lampard departed for Chelsea and was replaced by Philip Cocu. Thorne arrived back for pre-season (according to him) in the best possible physical condition but it became clear to him that he wasn't part of Cocu's plans. Cocu handled the situation much more amicably than Lampard had but told Thorne it would be better for everyone if he found another club. Mel Morris asked to see Thorne at some around this time and told Thorne about the clause in the original deal with WBA which meant that Derby had to pay them £15k every time Thorne played for Derby. Morris explained that Derby could no longer afford these outgoing costs so Thorne could not therefore be part of the first team squad. Thorne was devastated and angry to discover that this was why he had been frozen out for two consecutive seasons in a row as he felt that the club had effectively wasted two years of his footballing career by not making him aware of the full facts of his situation.  
    • Thorne went on load to Luton in Jnaury 2019 and eventually ended up moving from Derby to Oxford United, first on loan in August 2019 and then on a permanent transfer in January 2020 on a short-term contract until the end of the season. He is currently without a club and semi-retired.
    • Finally, Thorne stated that the situation Derby are in now has been 'a long time coming' and that since the QPR play-off final, Morris had spent £30 million on players which he thought most Derby fans would agree had ultimately made the squad weaker rather than stronger.
Obviously this is just Thorne's side of the story and so needs to be understood in that context but the apparent failure to tell him about the clause along with the refusal to let him join up with McClaren at QPR don't, on the face of it, reflect well on the club.
The podcast really is well worth listening to. It's almost like a history of Derby County since just before the QPR play-off final as told from Thorne's personal perspective.
 

In 18-19 Man Utd's revenue was £627m and their net profit was £165m
Of all the clubs in British football they have enough to take a few gambles - Everyone in the PL has TV revenue but the sheer volume of money Man Utd make from merchandising keeps them ahead of most of the other teams

I'm afraid that's not necessarily true - It's definitely one possibility but not the only one
If they think it's money now or no money later then they would want to get a fee
If they thought he was 99% likely to stay just delaying a decision then they'd probably wait
If the kid of 50/50 about staying or going somewhere else they need to try and get what they can for him now as that's too big a risk to take on the whims of a kid who's head will get turned by a bigger club showing interest
Kaide has to do what's right for him obviously - But this seems more about maximising the money they get rather than being desperate to offload someone

I'm afraid that's not necessarily true - It's definitely one possibility but not the only one
If they think it's money now or no money later then they would want to get a fee
If they thought he was 99% likely to stay just delaying a decision then they'd probably wait
If the kid of 50/50 about staying or going somewhere else they need to try and get what they can for him now as that's too big a risk to take on the whims of a kid who's head will get turned by a bigger club showing interest
Kaide has to do what's right for him obviously - But this seems more about maximising the money they get rather than being desperate to offload someone

I'm afraid that's not necessarily true - It's definitely one possibility but not the only one
If they think it's money now or no money later then they would want to get a fee
If they thought he was 99% likely to stay just delaying a decision then they'd probably wait
If the kid of 50/50 about staying or going somewhere else they need to try and get what they can for him now as that's too big a risk to take on the whims of a kid who's head will get turned by a bigger club showing interest
Kaide has to do what's right for him obviously - But this seems more about maximising the money they get rather than being desperate to offload someone

Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level
He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over?
From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too

Unfortunately that is football now - The money side of the game is so important especially to a club like ours which doesn't have PL revenues but aims to compete at the top level
He might be 16 but that's the exact age when potential professionals have to make some kind of commitment - Fully appreciate he's just a kid but he's also old enough to have left school and be in full time employment now - And why should the club give him time to make a decision for his benefit which might screw them over?
From a club standpoint if an offer is/was on the table and he's chosen not to take it Derby have to look out for the investment they've made in him - We have a manager who was playing first team football at this age and made a firm and decisive commitment to the club who developed him so will probably expect that of other people too