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Ghost of Clough

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  1. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Carnero in El DerbyCo   
    Going back to my post yesterday regarding minutes to academy graduates, this is the list of players (and season) where they got anything meaningful...
    Hanson (15/16) - Behind Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield, Johnson, Bryson, Thorne and Baird. Got in due to injuries and even played at LB and RB.
    Lowe (16/17) - Injuries to Olsson and Forsyth gave him a chance
    Bogle (18/19) - Started the season as Wisdom's backup because we couldn't find a suitable loan. Once in the team he was too good to be dropped.
    Bennett (18/19) - A squad player who had a massive impact off the bench. A vital member of that squad.
    Bogle (19/20) - Deservedly in the squad due to 18/19
    Lowe (19/20) - Started the season as 3rd choice behind Malone and Forsyth. His first 8 games were all at RB because Bogle was injured. He impressed Cocu so much in those games he earned a starting spot over Malone when Bogle returned from injury. Pretty much remained that what until he picked up the red card, which coincided with Forsyth returning from injury - back down to 2nd choice.
    Bird (19/20) - Behind Bielik, Holmes, Dowell, Shinnie, Evans and Huddlestone as one of the two CMs. Came in to the side due to an injury crisis but deservedly retained his spot due to form once they were all fit.
    Knight (19/20) - Used as a utility player based on where we had a gap on any particular day - CM, AM, RW, LW. His performances merited staying in the team though.
    Sibley (19/20) - Head and shoulders the best player at U23 level out of all teams. Deservedly got a chance in the league and scored 5 in 11 games.
    Knight (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Buchanan (20/21) - Felt like he was given a shot a bit too soon. However, the fact his performances merited an U21 callup, he's clearly good enough for this level.
    Bird (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Sibley (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    So who affected recruitment?
    Bogle I guess, because we couldn't loan him out and we would have got someone cheap in as cover for Wisdom - thank duck for that.
    Knight in 19/20 at a push, but P&S restricted how much we could spend on wages and I'm guessing the budget was empty
    Buchanan in 20/21, but the fact  our transfer business was was it was in the summer (and then in January) also indicates the P&S budget was again empty.
    Once working as it should, the team grows as the academy graduates grow. Yes, some players will outgrow the team and be snatched by a bigger club. Either the next academy graduate steps up or you buy a new player in of a similar ability straight away. That specific position may be weaker, but the rest of the young team continues to improve with a net positive result.
    I bet Leicester are kicking themselves for spending all that money on their academy just to produce and England quality LB for Chelsea... Idiots
  2. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from richinspain in El DerbyCo   
    Going back to my post yesterday regarding minutes to academy graduates, this is the list of players (and season) where they got anything meaningful...
    Hanson (15/16) - Behind Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield, Johnson, Bryson, Thorne and Baird. Got in due to injuries and even played at LB and RB.
    Lowe (16/17) - Injuries to Olsson and Forsyth gave him a chance
    Bogle (18/19) - Started the season as Wisdom's backup because we couldn't find a suitable loan. Once in the team he was too good to be dropped.
    Bennett (18/19) - A squad player who had a massive impact off the bench. A vital member of that squad.
    Bogle (19/20) - Deservedly in the squad due to 18/19
    Lowe (19/20) - Started the season as 3rd choice behind Malone and Forsyth. His first 8 games were all at RB because Bogle was injured. He impressed Cocu so much in those games he earned a starting spot over Malone when Bogle returned from injury. Pretty much remained that what until he picked up the red card, which coincided with Forsyth returning from injury - back down to 2nd choice.
    Bird (19/20) - Behind Bielik, Holmes, Dowell, Shinnie, Evans and Huddlestone as one of the two CMs. Came in to the side due to an injury crisis but deservedly retained his spot due to form once they were all fit.
    Knight (19/20) - Used as a utility player based on where we had a gap on any particular day - CM, AM, RW, LW. His performances merited staying in the team though.
    Sibley (19/20) - Head and shoulders the best player at U23 level out of all teams. Deservedly got a chance in the league and scored 5 in 11 games.
    Knight (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Buchanan (20/21) - Felt like he was given a shot a bit too soon. However, the fact his performances merited an U21 callup, he's clearly good enough for this level.
    Bird (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Sibley (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    So who affected recruitment?
    Bogle I guess, because we couldn't loan him out and we would have got someone cheap in as cover for Wisdom - thank duck for that.
    Knight in 19/20 at a push, but P&S restricted how much we could spend on wages and I'm guessing the budget was empty
    Buchanan in 20/21, but the fact  our transfer business was was it was in the summer (and then in January) also indicates the P&S budget was again empty.
    Once working as it should, the team grows as the academy graduates grow. Yes, some players will outgrow the team and be snatched by a bigger club. Either the next academy graduate steps up or you buy a new player in of a similar ability straight away. That specific position may be weaker, but the rest of the young team continues to improve with a net positive result.
    I bet Leicester are kicking themselves for spending all that money on their academy just to produce and England quality LB for Chelsea... Idiots
  3. Clap
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Deej in El DerbyCo   
    Going back to my post yesterday regarding minutes to academy graduates, this is the list of players (and season) where they got anything meaningful...
    Hanson (15/16) - Behind Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield, Johnson, Bryson, Thorne and Baird. Got in due to injuries and even played at LB and RB.
    Lowe (16/17) - Injuries to Olsson and Forsyth gave him a chance
    Bogle (18/19) - Started the season as Wisdom's backup because we couldn't find a suitable loan. Once in the team he was too good to be dropped.
    Bennett (18/19) - A squad player who had a massive impact off the bench. A vital member of that squad.
    Bogle (19/20) - Deservedly in the squad due to 18/19
    Lowe (19/20) - Started the season as 3rd choice behind Malone and Forsyth. His first 8 games were all at RB because Bogle was injured. He impressed Cocu so much in those games he earned a starting spot over Malone when Bogle returned from injury. Pretty much remained that what until he picked up the red card, which coincided with Forsyth returning from injury - back down to 2nd choice.
    Bird (19/20) - Behind Bielik, Holmes, Dowell, Shinnie, Evans and Huddlestone as one of the two CMs. Came in to the side due to an injury crisis but deservedly retained his spot due to form once they were all fit.
    Knight (19/20) - Used as a utility player based on where we had a gap on any particular day - CM, AM, RW, LW. His performances merited staying in the team though.
    Sibley (19/20) - Head and shoulders the best player at U23 level out of all teams. Deservedly got a chance in the league and scored 5 in 11 games.
    Knight (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Buchanan (20/21) - Felt like he was given a shot a bit too soon. However, the fact his performances merited an U21 callup, he's clearly good enough for this level.
    Bird (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    Sibley (20/21) - Deservedly in the squad due to 19/20
    So who affected recruitment?
    Bogle I guess, because we couldn't loan him out and we would have got someone cheap in as cover for Wisdom - thank duck for that.
    Knight in 19/20 at a push, but P&S restricted how much we could spend on wages and I'm guessing the budget was empty
    Buchanan in 20/21, but the fact  our transfer business was was it was in the summer (and then in January) also indicates the P&S budget was again empty.
    Once working as it should, the team grows as the academy graduates grow. Yes, some players will outgrow the team and be snatched by a bigger club. Either the next academy graduate steps up or you buy a new player in of a similar ability straight away. That specific position may be weaker, but the rest of the young team continues to improve with a net positive result.
    I bet Leicester are kicking themselves for spending all that money on their academy just to produce and England quality LB for Chelsea... Idiots
  4. Clap
    Ghost of Clough reacted to nottingram in El DerbyCo   
    But the only manager who you could even argue has prioritised academy players over better experienced players is Cocu (and I don’t even think he did, really) by which point first team investment had been scaled back because of P&S issues that arose as a result of overspending on first team players.
    I just don’t understand the line of thinking - Mel has funded the academy from a cash perspective. He has also funded the first team from a cash perspective and a profit perspective. The academy helps to fund the first team from both a cash perspective and a profit perspective. So then the issue is that too many academy players have been promoted - please give specific examples of this happening before it became a necessity to do so because we could no longer afford to carry expensive first team players? Bennett at Wembley is literally the only one you could possibly argue and for reasons I gave originally I don’t think that’s the case.
    Bogle was, is and will continue to be much better than Wisdom so that wasn’t an issue. Knight and Bird transformed the team when becoming first team players last season, in part due to necessity because Bielik did his knee. Lowe playing instead of Malone in Cocu’s season maybe, but Malone was no world beater. Other than that, I can’t see many examples of managers picking youth players in direct place of more experienced first team players.
    The fact is, the academy has given the first team the budget to sign better players. The fact that money has been wasted is nothing to do with the academy. 
  5. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from England Ram in El DerbyCo   
    Academy spend is exempt from P&S, but sales are not. So even if you spend £40m on the academy but only receive £1m in sales, you'd still be £1m better off for P&S than if you didn't have an academy at all.
    Since the start of the 11/12 season, I believe we have spent the best part of £40m on the academy. We have have sold players for about £32m (based on transfermarkt and newspaper figures). But, we also have a number of players in the first team who will have a non-paper value. Assign values to the likes of Buchanan, Bird, Knight and Sibley, and I think it's fair to say we've got more out of the academy than we've put in
  6. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Carl Sagan in El DerbyCo   
    Barnsley, Brentford and Reading have 3 if the 4 youngest squads in the league, but are in the top 7. The rest of the top 7 in the league are Swansea (8th), Bournemouth (9th), Norwich (12th) and Watford (14th). Kind of suggests younger squads do better.
    The 6 oldest squads are: Birmingham, Millwall, Wycombe, Sheff Weds, Forest, Cardiff
  7. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from rynny in El DerbyCo   
    Barnsley, Brentford and Reading have 3 if the 4 youngest squads in the league, but are in the top 7. The rest of the top 7 in the league are Swansea (8th), Bournemouth (9th), Norwich (12th) and Watford (14th). Kind of suggests younger squads do better.
    The 6 oldest squads are: Birmingham, Millwall, Wycombe, Sheff Weds, Forest, Cardiff
  8. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from angieram in El DerbyCo   
    Barnsley, Brentford and Reading have 3 if the 4 youngest squads in the league, but are in the top 7. The rest of the top 7 in the league are Swansea (8th), Bournemouth (9th), Norwich (12th) and Watford (14th). Kind of suggests younger squads do better.
    The 6 oldest squads are: Birmingham, Millwall, Wycombe, Sheff Weds, Forest, Cardiff
  9. Clap
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from ariotofmyown in El DerbyCo   
    Following that statement, we spent £8m on Bielik, £4m on Jozwiak, recruited Rooney on a record Champiomship wage, plus flip flopping in and out of a transfer embargo.
    1 regular, 2 rotation, 1 backup, and the rest are emergency cover. Those are the roles given to our current academy graduates.
    Yeah... Bielik, Davies, Clarke, Byrne, Waghorn, Gregory, Edmundson, Ibe all unavailable.
  10. Like
    Ghost of Clough reacted to Van der MoodHoover in El DerbyCo   
    People seem to be thinking that the plan was to suddenly promote the kids en mssse from the academy rather than the gradual introduction that @Ghost of Cloughquoted.
    Bringing through 1 a season for a few years should have been relatively uncontroversial as an objective. 
    Through adverse circumstances and the failure of other parts of the strategy tho, we find ourselves in the position of several relatively inexperienced players all at once.
    Interestingly tho, we still have a spine of Marshall wisdom shinnie and CKR, with possibly Lawrence just behind him. That's experienced, if a bit poo....... 
  11. Haha
    Ghost of Clough reacted to Red_Dawn in Relegation watch   
  12. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Deej in El DerbyCo   
    Barnsley, Brentford and Reading have 3 if the 4 youngest squads in the league, but are in the top 7. The rest of the top 7 in the league are Swansea (8th), Bournemouth (9th), Norwich (12th) and Watford (14th). Kind of suggests younger squads do better.
    The 6 oldest squads are: Birmingham, Millwall, Wycombe, Sheff Weds, Forest, Cardiff
  13. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Andicis in El DerbyCo   
    Academy spend is exempt from P&S, but sales are not. So even if you spend £40m on the academy but only receive £1m in sales, you'd still be £1m better off for P&S than if you didn't have an academy at all.
    Since the start of the 11/12 season, I believe we have spent the best part of £40m on the academy. We have have sold players for about £32m (based on transfermarkt and newspaper figures). But, we also have a number of players in the first team who will have a non-paper value. Assign values to the likes of Buchanan, Bird, Knight and Sibley, and I think it's fair to say we've got more out of the academy than we've put in
  14. Like
    Ghost of Clough reacted to Abu Dhabi Ram in El DerbyCo   
    What utter rubbish. Our Academy is our only bright light. 
    You do remember we blew crazy money for a championship club on signing average, or below par players? Bennett being a squad blocker is a joke statement. We signed Nick Blackman to play upfront, we signed Anya, spent 4million on Butterfield, 6 million on Johnson, Plus many more, oh and they didn’t even leave for a profit. I think you would also find that with the except of Vydra, the only players sold for a good profit come from the academy. 
     
    We would be screwed without our academy. We should look very closely at our recruitment strategy though. 
  15. Clap
    Ghost of Clough reacted to nottingram in El DerbyCo   
    Our embargo and poor P&S position are the result of an utterly ridiculous recruitment policy of signing “experienced” (read: crap) Championship players for large transfer fees and on large wages, who all in theory were too good for the division and would guarantee us promotion - policy you seem to be advocating? An overly expensive academy has zero impact on this for as long as the owner is willing to fund it on a cash basis. I can’t see any indication this is not the case anymore?
    I think you are right in saying Lowe wasn’t good enough to be first choice but equally I don’t think he was given much opportunity to be. In fact, Lampard was allowed to sign Malone (expensive up front, massive wages, long contract) and loan out Lowe. He was then allowed to sign Cole and keep Lowe out on loan - Cole was hugely uninspiring and very poor at Wembley. Lowe didn’t have to be sold but he had been usurped by the next one from the academy, Buchanan. Bogle was sold for P&S reasons, in my opinion. £Xm of pure profit to offset the losses generated by the transfer policy you advocate - a direct benefit of the academy is that players sold from it count as pure profit with negligible amortisation costs going into P&S calculations. As an aside, Bogle was much much better from Wisdom from the get go.
    Bennett was a very decent and cheap back up that season. Won us some very important games with his input (Hull away, Reading away, WBA home) were all winning goals he contributed to. Compare that to David Nugent for example and the return on investment doesn’t even compare. Any experienced Championship player worth their salt are not going to be happy as backup to Marriott, Waghorn, Nugent et al. He was a perfectly serviceable player produced at negligible P&S cost. You simply cannot carry expensive back ups to back ups at this level. The decision to start him at Wembley was also not due to not having a big enough squad - Waghorn and Marriott were on the bench! He was selected on merit, rightly or wrongly.
  16. Clap
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from rynny in El DerbyCo   
    The problem with your argument is that it's the youngster who tend to put in the better performances. The problem lies with not having good enough players elsewhere in the team. Wisdom is a poor defender, Marshall is past his best, so too is Forsyth, Shinnie isn't good enough when a teammate is on the ball, Waghorn's erratic, and Kazim is nothing more than a lower end Championship forward.
    We've gone from having Keogh to Wisdom at CB; Ince and Russell on the wing to Lawrence and Wilson to Jozwiak and A.N.Other. Martin/Bent/Vydra/Nugent at CF to Kazim and Gregory.
    In 19/20, our most used 11 was: Hamer, Bogle, Davies, Clarke, Lowe, Bird, Holmes, Knight, Waghorn, Lawrence, Martin
    In 20/21, at the moment it's: Marshall, Byrne, Wisdom, Clarke, Buchanan, Bird, Shinnie, Knight, Waghorn, Jozwiak, Kazim
    4 of those players are the same in both seasons, so I find it hard to point the finger at them for our poor results this year. If you insist on blaming Mel's policy, then why didn't we do worse last year with Bogle and Lowe at FB, whereas we've replaced one of those with an experienced head? Let's take the easy option and blame having "too many" academy graduates in the team instead though.
    The forum was pretty much split on who our best LB was between Forsyth and Lowe. He played as much as he did because he was a good LB, not because Mel insisted.
    Bennett played upfront in the final because Waghorn, Marriott and Nugent were all injured. His impact on the wing was fantastic that season, with 1 goal contribution every 157 minutes - one of the highest in the league. No club in this league can afford to have 4 high earners fighting for 1 position as you suggested... 
  17. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from LeedsCityRam in El DerbyCo   
    According to Transfermarkt:
    Hendrick = £10.6m
    Hughes = £8.2m
    Bogle = £3.5m
    Lowe = £3.5m
    Whittaker = £0.7m
    Then there are the others:
    Delap = £1.2m
    Gordon = £3m
    1x U15 and 2xU14 = £2m
    Total = £32.7m
    That's not including fees for the likes of Hanson, Bennett, Vernam, etc who would have moved on for relatively small amounts. Luke Thomas also not included as I imagine his signing wouldn't have gone against the academy budget.
  18. Clap
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from LeedsCityRam in El DerbyCo   
    Firstly, let's start off by looking at the minutes of academy graduate involvement in the league since Mel's takeover in 2014 (excluding Hughes and Hendrick):
    14/15 - Hanson (160), KThomas (65), Bennett (36)
    15/16 - Hanson (892)
    16/17 - Lowe (716), Hanson (251), Bennett (23)
    17/18 - Hanson (50), Bennett (41), Thomas (6)
    18/19 - Bogle (3485), Bennett (1108), Lowe (270), Bird (110), JML (7)
    19/20 - Bogle (2902), Lowe (2281), Bird (1910), Knight (1808), Sibley (739), Buchanan (276), Whittaker (269), Bennett (178), JBrown (6), Trialist (6)
    20/21 - Knight (3302), Buchanan (2421), Bird (1838), Sibley (953), Whittaker (207), McDonald (199), Watson (133), Trialist (57), Stretton (29), Cresswell (8), Ebosele (6), Gordon (1), JML (1)
    Up until 2018, academy graduates were limited to cup games or being their in case of emergency. Lowe was the only one to get a run of games and impressed in them, only to get dropped back to to 4th choice when, Forsyth, Olsson, Warnock or whoever else was flavour of the week at LB. Lowe looked ready for that step up but his progress was blocked because of the sheer number of high earning players in front of him - this is what Mel wanted to prevent in the future as it stalled Lowe's progress for 2/3 years.
    In the 18/19 season, Frank wanted to loan Bogle out for experience. Because we chose not to give him the odd appearance in the league previously no-one wanted him. However, it's hard to argue against Bogle and Bennett deserving their game-time under Frank.
    Due to heavily focusing on the first team, we could no longer afford to keep such a large squad under P&S, hence a cut back in 19/20. Let's not forget we were under and embargo? Bogle deservedly retained his place as 1st choice RB.
    Lowe started the season as 2nd choice LB due to Fozzy's long term injury, and only came into the side following Bogle's injury. By the end of the season, many felt he was our best LB.
    Bird came in to the side half way through the season due to an injury crisis at CM (Bielik, Huddlesteone, Shinnie, Evans all out?). He was some people's player of the season despite only playing in half the games.
    Sibley was head and shoulders above U23 and looked ready for Championship football, as shown by his 5 goals in 11 games at the end of the season. You could also argue Knight came into the side too soon, but again, he proved he was ready with consistent performances and a respectable 6 goals in 31 games.
    Buchanan again only came in due to an injury crisis.
    Others invovled due to not being able to add any more depth without failing P&S
    On to this season, as you know we are still feeling the repercussions of our heavy spending early on in Mel's reign. Under another embargo, if i recall correctly?
    Bird, Knight and Sibley rightfully deserved to be included in the squad base on their performances in 19/20.
    Buchanan started off as Fozzy's backup due to selling Lowe and loaning out Malone to stay within financial restrictions.
    Are we really arguing over 200 minutes of football given to the odd remaining player?
     
    £5m seems reasonable to Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Stoke and even Sunderland
  19. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from BucksRam in El DerbyCo   
    Firstly, let's start off by looking at the minutes of academy graduate involvement in the league since Mel's takeover in 2014 (excluding Hughes and Hendrick):
    14/15 - Hanson (160), KThomas (65), Bennett (36)
    15/16 - Hanson (892)
    16/17 - Lowe (716), Hanson (251), Bennett (23)
    17/18 - Hanson (50), Bennett (41), Thomas (6)
    18/19 - Bogle (3485), Bennett (1108), Lowe (270), Bird (110), JML (7)
    19/20 - Bogle (2902), Lowe (2281), Bird (1910), Knight (1808), Sibley (739), Buchanan (276), Whittaker (269), Bennett (178), JBrown (6), Trialist (6)
    20/21 - Knight (3302), Buchanan (2421), Bird (1838), Sibley (953), Whittaker (207), McDonald (199), Watson (133), Trialist (57), Stretton (29), Cresswell (8), Ebosele (6), Gordon (1), JML (1)
    Up until 2018, academy graduates were limited to cup games or being their in case of emergency. Lowe was the only one to get a run of games and impressed in them, only to get dropped back to to 4th choice when, Forsyth, Olsson, Warnock or whoever else was flavour of the week at LB. Lowe looked ready for that step up but his progress was blocked because of the sheer number of high earning players in front of him - this is what Mel wanted to prevent in the future as it stalled Lowe's progress for 2/3 years.
    In the 18/19 season, Frank wanted to loan Bogle out for experience. Because we chose not to give him the odd appearance in the league previously no-one wanted him. However, it's hard to argue against Bogle and Bennett deserving their game-time under Frank.
    Due to heavily focusing on the first team, we could no longer afford to keep such a large squad under P&S, hence a cut back in 19/20. Let's not forget we were under and embargo? Bogle deservedly retained his place as 1st choice RB.
    Lowe started the season as 2nd choice LB due to Fozzy's long term injury, and only came into the side following Bogle's injury. By the end of the season, many felt he was our best LB.
    Bird came in to the side half way through the season due to an injury crisis at CM (Bielik, Huddlesteone, Shinnie, Evans all out?). He was some people's player of the season despite only playing in half the games.
    Sibley was head and shoulders above U23 and looked ready for Championship football, as shown by his 5 goals in 11 games at the end of the season. You could also argue Knight came into the side too soon, but again, he proved he was ready with consistent performances and a respectable 6 goals in 31 games.
    Buchanan again only came in due to an injury crisis.
    Others invovled due to not being able to add any more depth without failing P&S
    On to this season, as you know we are still feeling the repercussions of our heavy spending early on in Mel's reign. Under another embargo, if i recall correctly?
    Bird, Knight and Sibley rightfully deserved to be included in the squad base on their performances in 19/20.
    Buchanan started off as Fozzy's backup due to selling Lowe and loaning out Malone to stay within financial restrictions.
    Are we really arguing over 200 minutes of football given to the odd remaining player?
     
    £5m seems reasonable to Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Stoke and even Sunderland
  20. Clap
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from rynny in El DerbyCo   
    Firstly, let's start off by looking at the minutes of academy graduate involvement in the league since Mel's takeover in 2014 (excluding Hughes and Hendrick):
    14/15 - Hanson (160), KThomas (65), Bennett (36)
    15/16 - Hanson (892)
    16/17 - Lowe (716), Hanson (251), Bennett (23)
    17/18 - Hanson (50), Bennett (41), Thomas (6)
    18/19 - Bogle (3485), Bennett (1108), Lowe (270), Bird (110), JML (7)
    19/20 - Bogle (2902), Lowe (2281), Bird (1910), Knight (1808), Sibley (739), Buchanan (276), Whittaker (269), Bennett (178), JBrown (6), Trialist (6)
    20/21 - Knight (3302), Buchanan (2421), Bird (1838), Sibley (953), Whittaker (207), McDonald (199), Watson (133), Trialist (57), Stretton (29), Cresswell (8), Ebosele (6), Gordon (1), JML (1)
    Up until 2018, academy graduates were limited to cup games or being their in case of emergency. Lowe was the only one to get a run of games and impressed in them, only to get dropped back to to 4th choice when, Forsyth, Olsson, Warnock or whoever else was flavour of the week at LB. Lowe looked ready for that step up but his progress was blocked because of the sheer number of high earning players in front of him - this is what Mel wanted to prevent in the future as it stalled Lowe's progress for 2/3 years.
    In the 18/19 season, Frank wanted to loan Bogle out for experience. Because we chose not to give him the odd appearance in the league previously no-one wanted him. However, it's hard to argue against Bogle and Bennett deserving their game-time under Frank.
    Due to heavily focusing on the first team, we could no longer afford to keep such a large squad under P&S, hence a cut back in 19/20. Let's not forget we were under and embargo? Bogle deservedly retained his place as 1st choice RB.
    Lowe started the season as 2nd choice LB due to Fozzy's long term injury, and only came into the side following Bogle's injury. By the end of the season, many felt he was our best LB.
    Bird came in to the side half way through the season due to an injury crisis at CM (Bielik, Huddlesteone, Shinnie, Evans all out?). He was some people's player of the season despite only playing in half the games.
    Sibley was head and shoulders above U23 and looked ready for Championship football, as shown by his 5 goals in 11 games at the end of the season. You could also argue Knight came into the side too soon, but again, he proved he was ready with consistent performances and a respectable 6 goals in 31 games.
    Buchanan again only came in due to an injury crisis.
    Others invovled due to not being able to add any more depth without failing P&S
    On to this season, as you know we are still feeling the repercussions of our heavy spending early on in Mel's reign. Under another embargo, if i recall correctly?
    Bird, Knight and Sibley rightfully deserved to be included in the squad base on their performances in 19/20.
    Buchanan started off as Fozzy's backup due to selling Lowe and loaning out Malone to stay within financial restrictions.
    Are we really arguing over 200 minutes of football given to the odd remaining player?
     
    £5m seems reasonable to Norwich, Reading, Blackburn, Middlesbrough, Stoke and even Sunderland
  21. COYR
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from DCFC1388 in El DerbyCo   
    Academy spend is exempt from P&S, but sales are not. So even if you spend £40m on the academy but only receive £1m in sales, you'd still be £1m better off for P&S than if you didn't have an academy at all.
    Since the start of the 11/12 season, I believe we have spent the best part of £40m on the academy. We have have sold players for about £32m (based on transfermarkt and newspaper figures). But, we also have a number of players in the first team who will have a non-paper value. Assign values to the likes of Buchanan, Bird, Knight and Sibley, and I think it's fair to say we've got more out of the academy than we've put in
  22. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from angieram in El DerbyCo   
    Academy spend is exempt from P&S, but sales are not. So even if you spend £40m on the academy but only receive £1m in sales, you'd still be £1m better off for P&S than if you didn't have an academy at all.
    Since the start of the 11/12 season, I believe we have spent the best part of £40m on the academy. We have have sold players for about £32m (based on transfermarkt and newspaper figures). But, we also have a number of players in the first team who will have a non-paper value. Assign values to the likes of Buchanan, Bird, Knight and Sibley, and I think it's fair to say we've got more out of the academy than we've put in
  23. Like
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from Wolfie in El DerbyCo   
    According to Transfermarkt:
    Hendrick = £10.6m
    Hughes = £8.2m
    Bogle = £3.5m
    Lowe = £3.5m
    Whittaker = £0.7m
    Then there are the others:
    Delap = £1.2m
    Gordon = £3m
    1x U15 and 2xU14 = £2m
    Total = £32.7m
    That's not including fees for the likes of Hanson, Bennett, Vernam, etc who would have moved on for relatively small amounts. Luke Thomas also not included as I imagine his signing wouldn't have gone against the academy budget.
  24. Haha
    Ghost of Clough reacted to Philmycock in El DerbyCo   
    Is EWassall in his 30's yet?
  25. Cheers
    Ghost of Clough got a reaction from DarkFruitsRam7 in El DerbyCo   
    Of course. But you'll find the consistency in quality is greater with higher spend. Birmingham a classic example of low spend but the occasional wonderkid - Bellingham, Gray and Redmond just to name a few. But, The I think the sale of Bellingham helped them breakeven on their return over the past 20 years - hence the cutting back their spend.
    That consistency seems apparent when looking back at the new scholar intakes:
    2020: Roberts, Randle, Brailsford, Rutt, Christie, Ibrahim, Bokovic, Williams, Kelly
    2019: Solomon, Jinkinson, Bardell, Grewal-Pollard, Matthews, Rogers, Aghatise, Perez de Gracia, SThompson, Nto, Cybulski, 
    2018: Foster, Halwax, Cashin, Ebosele, McDonald, Archie, Charles, Sibley, LThompson, Wilson, Stretton
    2017: French, JBrown, Minkley, Buchanan, Bird, Knight, Dixon, Whittaker
    2016: Fryatt, Carter-Thompson, CThomas, Mbuti, Rashid, Mills, Bogle, Thorne, Haywood, Hitchman, Wise, Jibosu, JML, Cresswell, Davie
    2015: Yates, Goode, Bateman, Magno, Davidson-Miller, Edwards
    2014: Barnes, EWassall, Cover, Stabana, MacDonald, Babos, JBird, Carvell, Gordon, Mellors
    2013: Behrens, Tuite, Lowe, Rigby, Moulton, Dryden, Adams, TBennett, Clennett, Guy, Vernam, Zanzala
    2012: Rawson, Hanson, KThomas, Spiriak, Nash, Revan, Carrigy, Johnson, Capitani
    2011: Etheridge, AWassall, Lelan, Sharpe, Berry, Dales, Hayes, Wixted, Dawkins
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