Sunderland (A) - Match thread

[Eoghan1884]

Swiftly moving on from the trauma of the Norwich game we’ve an even harder (in my opinion) game on Tuesday. He could prove me wrong but I don’t think we get the best out of Osborn in midfield and I also think Yates could do with more runners into the box. I’d move to 5 at the back with 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin

Wilson Ebou Kenzo Osborn/Fozzy

Jackson Yates Chirewa 

letting Chirewa and Kenzo have a bit of freedom when on the ball and pushing the wing backs high with Ebou sweeping up in front of the back three could mean we see a lot more creativity aswell as bodies forward. I also think the likes of NML, CBT and Harness would cause a lot of damage against tired legs late on. Sunderland have a very young and inexperienced team which works both in their favour and in the oppositions at times. They can be fearless and fluid on the ball but seem to be liable to being disorganised also. 
 

Id take 2 points out of the next 2 games, 3 or 4 would be perfect and 6 is dreamland. 
 

I don’t mind if we see a bore 0-0 draw to get the two losses behind us and get a point on the road. 

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Swiftly moving on from the trauma of the Norwich game we’ve an even harder (in my opinion) game on Tuesday. He could prove me wrong but I don’t think we get the best out of Osborn in midfield and I also think Yates could do with more runners into the box. I’d move to 5 at the back with 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin

Wilson Ebou Kenzo Osborn/Fozzy

Jackson Yates Chirewa 

letting Chirewa and Kenzo have a bit of freedom when on the ball and pushing the wing backs high with Ebou sweeping up in front of the back three could mean we see a lot more creativity aswell as bodies forward. I also think the likes of NML, CBT and Harness would cause a lot of damage against tired legs late on. Sunderland have a very young and inexperienced team which works both in their favour and in the oppositions at times. They can be fearless and fluid on the ball but seem to be liable to being disorganised also. 
 

Id take 2 points out of the next 2 games, 3 or 4 would be perfect and 6 is dreamland. 
 

I don’t mind if we see a bore 0-0 draw to get the two losses behind us and get a point on the road. 

I agree about the Sunderland. It won't upset me too much if we park several double decker buses and don't manage a shot on target for this one as long as we come away with a point.

Regarding "the next 2 games", do you mean the next two away games? Assuming we get, at best, nothing more than a point at Sunderland, it will be a blow to not get back to winning ways at home against QPR.

[jimtastic56]

Think you are right . 3 out of the next 4 games are away . Away form has been terrible since pre-season . Warne has to come up with something different so we don’t get dragged into the bottom six. Would have loved to see Ozoh at Sunderland and Millwall, we won’t so perhaps 3 CH may be the way to go . 

[Srg]

4 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Think you are right . 3 out of the next 4 games are away . Away form has been terrible since pre-season . Warne has to come up with something different so we don’t get dragged into the bottom six. Would have loved to see Ozoh at Sunderland and Millwall, we won’t so perhaps 3 CH may be the way to go . 

Away form has been bad but caveat that with the fact the games we’ve had have been some of the better teams in the league so far this season, and it obviously doesn’t get easier on Tuesday. 

[Eoghan1884]

47 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I agree about the Sunderland. It won't upset me too much if we park several double decker buses and don't manage a shot on target for this one as long as we come away with a point.

Regarding "the next 2 games", do you mean the next two away games? Assuming we get, at best, nothing more than a point at Sunderland, it will be a blow to not get back to winning ways at home against QPR.

Not being funny but by the next 2 games I did literally mean the next 2 games, I’d want 3-4 points but I did say I’d “take” 2 points as in it wouldn’t be all that bad for me as I think we will beat one of Millwall or Oxford away with Ozoh and Elder back. 
 

Over the next 5 games I’d want 8/9 points which would leave us on 17/18 points from 12 which is a very good start in my opinion. That would be 36% of the 50 point safety mark after only 27% of the games. 

[Eoghan1884]

49 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Think you are right . 3 out of the next 4 games are away . Away form has been terrible since pre-season . Warne has to come up with something different so we don’t get dragged into the bottom six. Would have loved to see Ozoh at Sunderland and Millwall, we won’t so perhaps 3 CH may be the way to go . 

To make it even worse 6 of our next 9 are away from home. 
 

And 9 of our next 15 games are away.

Edited September 29 by Eoghan1884

[Castor]

Zetterstrom 

Nyambe Nelson Cashin Fozzy

Adams Chirewa

Kenzo

NML Yates CBT

 

Give Jackson a rest, but bring him on for NML early. CBT or Harness starting on the left. Osborn benched.

[Magicman]

Team at Sunderland 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin 

Wilson Adams Kenzo Fozzy 

Twanda 

Yates Jackson 

 

[Magicman]

Some of Jacobs kicking is appalling but his shot stopping is top rate. 

[AljosaAsanovic]

35 minutes ago, Magicman said:

Team at Sunderland 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin 

Wilson Adams Kenzo Fozzy 

Twanda 

Yates Jackson 

 

Agree 100%. 

Saved me typing a team out. 

[jono]

6 hours ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Swiftly moving on from the trauma of the Norwich game we’ve an even harder (in my opinion) game on Tuesday. He could prove me wrong but I don’t think we get the best out of Osborn in midfield and I also think Yates could do with more runners into the box. I’d move to 5 at the back with 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin

Wilson Ebou Kenzo Osborn/Fozzy

Jackson Yates Chirewa 

letting Chirewa and Kenzo have a bit of freedom when on the ball and pushing the wing backs high with Ebou sweeping up in front of the back three could mean we see a lot more creativity aswell as bodies forward. I also think the likes of NML, CBT and Harness would cause a lot of damage against tired legs late on. Sunderland have a very young and inexperienced team which works both in their favour and in the oppositions at times. They can be fearless and fluid on the ball but seem to be liable to being disorganised also. 
 

Id take 2 points out of the next 2 games, 3 or 4 would be perfect and 6 is dreamland. 
 

I don’t mind if we see a bore 0-0 draw to get the two losses behind us and get a point on the road. 

I’d “survive” with 2 points, be “comfortable” with 3 “Gloomy” with 1 and “downright miserable” with 0

4 points would bring a smug smile, all 6 and I’d lose any sense of reason and self control 🤪

Like you I would like to see Chirewa given a go but I don’t know if Warne would do it away from home ? Might he give CBT a run in place of NML ?  .. really, with the internationals, his age and the fact that pace is a big part of his game I reckon there is an argument that Nat needs to rest legs in a 3 game week ?

One thing for sure this is a tough game, away, against early pace setters who score goals. Yet, one thing for certain, this group are battlers. 

[rammieib]

Ebou looks lost in an attacking midfield role.

Osborn not influencing games enough for me.

NML looks a little lazy at times (no one seems to mention his lazy contribution to Norwich first goal).

I am looking at:

                zetterstrom

Nyambe   Phillips    Cashin   Forsyth

                Adams      Kenzo 

Jackson         Chirewa         CBT

                       Yates

Do I think he will go anywhere near this team? No, not at all.

 

[DiggerB]

6 hours ago, Magicman said:

Team at Sunderland 

JWZ

Nelson Phillips Cashin 

Wilson Adams Kenzo Fozzy 

Twanda 

Yates Jackson 

 

This would be my choice for Tuesday.

[Ghost of Clough]

How I'd line us up:

Zetterstrom

Wilson   Nelson   Cashin   Forsyth

Adams

Goudmijn      Osborn

Jackson   Yates   Mendez-Laing

 

Subs: Vickers, Phillips, Nyambe, Ward, Harness, Chirewa, Blackett-Taylor, DBrown, Collins

This setup would be similar to a 343 in possession, with Wilson pushing high, Forsyth hanging back, Osborn drifting wide and the two wingers drifting central. I'm still reluctant to see us play we a true back 3 as it means too many compromises across the team.

Whilst Nyambe has been solid defensively, I feel Wilson will offer more creativity down the right hand side and allow Jackson to drift more central. Nyambe putting in one of his weaker performances of the season means it's a good opportunity to freshen the side up.

With our current lack of CM options in the squad, I think we need Ward on the bench, who successfully played as a hybrid 7/8 vs Portsmouth last season. He's arguably the next best player we have to play as an 8 behind our current starters. Chirewa and Harness play further forward in AM or on the wing. I'll be surprised if we don't strengthen in the CM position in January.

We need more goal threat from our front 3. Hopefully Blackett-Taylor builds on his goal, but for now he's a sub. He also needs to improve defensively. Harness could start to threaten for a starting spot too, but is more of a creator than a scorer and someone I originally saw as competition for Goudmijn. The latter playing as an 8, and the former as a 10 dependant on the opposition and stage of the game. I'll also be surprised if we don't sign a winger in January.

[Eoghan1884]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How I'd line us up:

Zetterstrom

Wilson   Nelson   Cashin   Forsyth

Adams

Goudmijn      Osborn

Jackson   Yates   Mendez-Laing

 

Subs: Vickers, Phillips, Nyambe, Ward, Harness, Chirewa, Blackett-Taylor, DBrown, Collins

This setup would be similar to a 343 in possession, with Wilson pushing high, Forsyth hanging back, Osborn drifting wide and the two wingers drifting central. I'm still reluctant to see us play we a true back 3 as it means too many compromises across the team.

Whilst Nyambe has been solid defensively, I feel Wilson will offer more creativity down the right hand side and allow Jackson to drift more central. Nyambe putting in one of his weaker performances of the season means it's a good opportunity to freshen the side up.

With our current lack of CM options in the squad, I think we need Ward on the bench, who successfully played as a hybrid 7/8 vs Portsmouth last season. He's arguably the next best player we have to play as an 8 behind our current starters. Chirewa and Harness play further forward in AM or on the wing. I'll be surprised if we don't strengthen in the CM position in January.

We need more goal threat from our front 3. Hopefully Blackett-Taylor builds on his goal, but for now he's a sub. He also needs to improve defensively. Harness could start to threaten for a starting spot too, but is more of a creator than a scorer and someone I originally saw as competition for Goudmijn. The latter playing as an 8, and the former as a 10 dependant on the opposition and stage of the game. I'll also be surprised if we don't sign a winger in January.

Even though I know you said that would shift to a 3-4-3 essentially, I love Kane Wilson but at this level he cannot play as a right back in a back 4 he leaves well too much space as seen in Norwich’s 3rd goal and at Blackburn. Romain mundle would have a field day one one one with him. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Even though I know you said that would shift to a 3-4-3 essentially, I love Kane Wilson but at this level he cannot play as a right back in a back 4 he leaves well too much space as seen in Norwich’s 3rd goal and at Blackburn. Romain mundle would have a field day one one one with him. 

But those Blackburn and Norwich goals were due to a tactical instruction too push almost every man forward in pursuit of an equaliser. For Norwich, Forsyth was the only man we had on halfway, with Goudmijn 2nd deepest. You cannot attribute any blame on Wilson who must have made up over 30 yards on the Norwuch attackers when the broke forward.

[thischarmingram]

We will suprise everyone and snatch this one 2-1 - we have had some really good spells on the road and it’s time to use anger from Saturday to fuel a performance. Sunderland look good but anyone can be beaten in this league. 

[nottingram]

14 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How I'd line us up:

Zetterstrom

Wilson   Nelson   Cashin   Forsyth

Adams

Goudmijn      Osborn

Jackson   Yates   Mendez-Laing

 

Subs: Vickers, Phillips, Nyambe, Ward, Harness, Chirewa, Blackett-Taylor, DBrown, Collins

This setup would be similar to a 343 in possession, with Wilson pushing high, Forsyth hanging back, Osborn drifting wide and the two wingers drifting central. I'm still reluctant to see us play we a true back 3 as it means too many compromises across the team.

Whilst Nyambe has been solid defensively, I feel Wilson will offer more creativity down the right hand side and allow Jackson to drift more central. Nyambe putting in one of his weaker performances of the season means it's a good opportunity to freshen the side up.

With our current lack of CM options in the squad, I think we need Ward on the bench, who successfully played as a hybrid 7/8 vs Portsmouth last season. He's arguably the next best player we have to play as an 8 behind our current starters. Chirewa and Harness play further forward in AM or on the wing. I'll be surprised if we don't strengthen in the CM position in January.

We need more goal threat from our front 3. Hopefully Blackett-Taylor builds on his goal, but for now he's a sub. He also needs to improve defensively. Harness could start to threaten for a starting spot too, but is more of a creator than a scorer and someone I originally saw as competition for Goudmijn. The latter playing as an 8, and the former as a 10 dependant on the opposition and stage of the game. I'll also be surprised if we don't sign a winger in January.

I think Adams as a lone defensive midfielder is asking for trouble - you either still let him charge around and leave holes or take away his biggest skill in trying to have him sit.

Ozoh been a huge loss as we don’t have any other pure holding midfielder. I think the best way to replace him is probably a move to 3 at the back to give Adams and Kenzo some protection behind them while still letting them get forward, having either holding is a waste. Probably means Osborn to LWB as the best balance between defending (Forsyth) and attacking (CBT). 

 

[Eoghan1884]

12 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But those Blackburn and Norwich goals were due to a tactical instruction too push almost every man forward in pursuit of an equaliser. For Norwich, Forsyth was the only man we had on halfway, with Goudmijn 2nd deepest. You cannot attribute any blame on Wilson who must have made up over 30 yards on the Norwuch attackers when the broke forward.

It may be down to tactical instruction. But it’s very obvious Kane naturally wants to get forward at any opportunity and is not a traditional fullback. He came through as a striker and winger as a kid and has played wing back or winger for nearly all his career. He doesn’t have the defensive discipline or know how in my opinion to lock up one of the best left wingers in the league. Also if we used him as a right back in a back 4 how we use nyambe we wouldn’t get the best out of his attacking attributes which is the reason he even got a move to the championship and then us in the first place. 

[Anag Ram]

Shame that Nyambe has been hesitant/ poor on the ball because he’s a tower of strength in defence.

The holding role in front of the back four is tailor made for Rooney. Is he still not fully fit?

Adams is a terrific spoiler but he needs a rock next to him.

Goudmijn is the classy option but not ideal for the rigours of Sunderland away.

Hard to see how we can win the midfield with the current personnel.

Have three CBs is great as long as you don’t mind the opposition being just outside your penalty area for most of the game.

We don’t have the skill to keep possession for long periods. Our attacks are fleeting, pacy and a bit frenetic.

                              JWZ

Wilson        Phillips.    Cashin.   Forsyth 

         Goudmijn.  Adams.   Chirewa  

 NML.               Yates.          Jackson

I don’t think the bus will work. We have to pick ball players and back ourselves to score.