Small Claims

[Stive Pesley]

Anyone had any experience of, or advice about trying to reclaim money from a small business

I spent considerable time back in February looking for a reputable trader with good reviews and decent online presence and he replied immediately to my request for quote. The quote was good and he said lead time was 4-6 weeks for him to do the work. I paid him £650 up front for materials, which I was nervous about but figured that he seemed like a decent guy. He only lives a couple of miles from me too

Needless to say - I chased him for a date after 6 weeks of silence and kept getting pushed back. Then said he'd do the work in May but just didn't turn up. Been chasing him ever since and he told me he'd do it this week. No sign of him and he's now not answering emails/calls/texts

Someone else on his Facebook page seems to be having the same issue as me, so I figure I need to cut my losses and get my money back 

Oh and he doesn't realise that I can see from his wife's personal social media that he is on holiday having a nice time somewhere in the Lakes right now, so I know he's being a dick

Any tips on where to start? I've made a log of every contact and every promise he's made me, but I'm afeared that this is just going to be a massive pain in the arse to get my money back 😭

 

[Rev]

Burn his house down while he's away.

[Ram-Alf]

Citizens Advice...ring or call into nearest branch, One bit of belated advice...never ever give money upfront, If they're as good as you found him out to be then he will have the funds for their own materials.

Life's lesson is there's people out there that want your loot and do nowt for it. 

[Wolfie20]

16 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Citizens Advice...ring or call into nearest branch, One bit of belated advice...never ever give money upfront, If they're as good as you found him out to be then he will have the funds for their own materials.

Life's lesson is there's people out there that want your loot and do nowt for it. 

This is so true. The last 2 tradesmen I've had dealings with have both asked me to order and pay for the materials directly from the supplier (which were duly delivered to my address as requested). Subsequent labour charges were on competion of each phase of the work.

 

Edited July 10 by Wolfie20

[Alph]

Oh mate, 

The £650 for materials up front would put me off. I'm self employed one man band and I've never taken money up front. If there's a hefty layout on my end then I can a) put it on account at a merchants to settle later b) set out a instalment plan with you so that I get material cost back after the job has started. 

Can you prove that the money was handed over? 

Problem with getting paid up front is that you know the job is yours. So you can go out chasing other jobs, clearing any back log, go on holiday and just keep kicking you further down the road even if he intends to do the work. Which he will say that he does intend to. 

If I was you I wouldn't even want him to do the job now even if he could start today. 

[Alph]

Just out of interest @Stive Pesley, what trade is it and you are in East Midlands?

 

[Ram-Alf]

40 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

This is so true. The last 2 tradesmen I've had dealings with have both asked me to order and pay for the materials directly from the supplier (which were duly delivered to my address as requested). Subsequent labour charges were on competion of each phase of the work.

 

We get a few "tradesmen" where we live, Last week they came door knocking... One told me I needed some mortar work on my roof(Bungalow)where the roof line meets the guttering that runs from my porch to drain into the roof gutter.

I told him I was aware of this, We can do in now he said, No thanks I'll do it myself, Where are you going to get the mortar from...B n Q i said, £5 for a small bag, Oh you do all your own DIY, Yes when I can, OK he said sorry to trouble you and gave me a leaflet, It'll only go in the bin so keep hold of it.

Got the bag of mortar this morning from B n Q and I'll be on the roof next week...weather permitting 

 

 

 

Edited July 10 by Ram-Alf

[Archied]

56 minutes ago, Alph said:

Oh mate, 

The £650 for materials up front would put me off. I'm self employed one man band and I've never taken money up front. If there's a hefty layout on my end then I can a) put it on account at a merchants to settle later b) set out a instalment plan with you so that I get material cost back after the job has started. 

Can you prove that the money was handed over? 

Problem with getting paid up front is that you know the job is yours. So you can go out chasing other jobs, clearing any back log, go on holiday and just keep kicking you further down the road even if he intends to do the work. Which he will say that he does intend to. 

If I was you I wouldn't even want him to do the job now even if he could start today. 

Don’t know how long you’ve been at it alph but I reached the stage where I only work for people I have history of working for or who come with very good recommendation from existing customer , the building trade is an absolute nightmare with nightmare contractor s and equally nightmare customer s , my biggest problem s if I had any was always with builders getting money off the customer and not wanting to pay the sub contractor s though had a couple of direct customer rip off merchants over the years ,,, taken a couple of roofs back off over the years 😂, yep you can get in trouble for doing it but I have a rule I stick to ,, I never rip anyone off but also will never stand by and be ripped off either ,

on the original post my advice is go to small claims court , it doesn’t cost a lot , you may not get your money back but you can duck people up with county court judgments , if they are halfway legit they won’t want that and will pay up 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, Alph said:

Just out of interest @Stive Pesley, what trade is it and you are in East Midlands?

 

Yes - East Mids and it's a joiner

He's actually just replied to my last barrage of messages and said he'd still like to do the work but understands if I want a refund. Says "will get a date to you tomorrow if you still want to go ahead". This seems to be his standard thing "will let you know tomorrow"

I have the bank transaction on my banking app, so the proof is there. I just have a horrible feeling that getting a refund is going to be yet more cat and mouse

I just don't get it as he doesn't come across in person as a dodgy fella (and I've met enough of them to know). I've spoken to the other person on his FB page having issues with him and they said that he's a friend of the family and came highly recommended. Just weird. Probably something else going on in his life maybe

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Don’t know how long you’ve been at it alph but I reached the stage where I only work for people I have history of working for or who come with very good recommendation from existing customer , the building trade is an absolute nightmare with nightmare contractor s and equally nightmare customer s , my biggest problem s if I had any was always with builders getting money off the customer and not wanting to pay the sub contractor s though had a couple of direct customer rip off merchants over the years ,,, taken a couple of roofs back off over the years 😂, yep you can get in trouble for doing it but I have a rule I stick to ,, I never rip anyone off but also will never stand by and be ripped off either ,

on the original post my advice is go to small claims court , it doesn’t cost a lot , you may not get your money back but you can duck people up with county court judgments , if they are halfway legit they won’t want that and will pay up 🤷🏻‍♂️

I've thankfully been going long enough now that I also only really work from recommendation and I'm pretty good at spotting potential nightmare customers. 

I've only been ripped off once and I knew the customer was a potential nightmare but went for it anyway. Backfired on me

Hard to understand why established tradies would take anyone's money and run. Once you're established in an area then you're flying. It does seem odd that this bloke would mess Stive around on his own doorstep. 

The money up front thing is always dodgy though. 

 

[bimmerman]

8 hours ago, Alph said:

I've thankfully been going long enough now that I also only really work from recommendation and I'm pretty good at spotting potential nightmare customers. 

I've only been ripped off once and I knew the customer was a potential nightmare but went for it anyway. Backfired on me

Hard to understand why established tradies would take anyone's money and run. Once you're established in an area then you're flying. It does seem odd that this bloke would mess Stive around on his own doorstep. 

The money up front thing is always dodgy though. 

 

What trade are you in? 

Ive been getting quotes for loft conversions and due to the size of the work most companies are asking for a 1k deposit for the work down here, suppose it is a 6 week job though

[Archied]

5 hours ago, bimmerman said:

What trade are you in? 

Ive been getting quotes for loft conversions and due to the size of the work most companies are asking for a 1k deposit for the work down here, suppose it is a 6 week job though

Don’t be too put off with a deposit or stage payment schedule as most companies will require that scenario for anything sizeable , the best you can do is research the companies / trades persons history and be very rigid on stage payments not being payed until the works carried out actually reach the point to trigger payment, remember there is no such thing as a free lunch , if people come in with very low quotes the chances are they will be a problem and or hit you with extras , with something like a loft conversation you need a detailed written spec for the job from all quoters so you can compare properly and get what you think you are paying for

[Boycie]

Customers sometimes say they want work doing and then cancel the night before when the builder has paid for skips, special order materials etc to be delivered direct to site and allocated time to carry out the work.

Thats what deposits are for, I’ve never asked for one personally but it can go knockers up for both parties at times.

I hope you get sorted mate, he does sound like it’s not something he does to everyone so fingers crossed you get your money back.

[Alph]

7 hours ago, bimmerman said:

What trade are you in? 

Ive been getting quotes for loft conversions and due to the size of the work most companies are asking for a 1k deposit for the work down here, suppose it is a 6 week job though

I'm a plasterer so my expenses are low compared to builders doing extensions etc. But even so it still means laying out hundreds sometimes. 

I don't get the deposit thing tbh. Why can't they ask you to settle the balance at the merchants or at the end of the first week you pay an instalment including materials? 

I'm guessing they don't want to pass their trade price onto you etc which I get. But putting money in their bank without starting the work doesn't sit right with me. It would make me shop around.

Edited July 11 by Alph

[Stive Pesley]

45 minutes ago, Alph said:

putting money in their bank without starting the work doesn't sit right with me. It would make me shop around.

I won't make the same mistake twice, that's for sure. I never would have made it the first time if he didn't seem so legit

Whatever is going on, I feel sorry for him as he's going to see his business go down the pan pretty quickly. Up until a couple of months ago his reviews are all excellent. 

[Alph]

11 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I won't make the same mistake twice, that's for sure. I never would have made it the first time if he didn't seem so legit

Whatever is going on, I feel sorry for him as he's going to see his business go down the pan pretty quickly. Up until a couple of months ago his reviews are all excellent. 

It's a shame he didn't reply to texts straight away

I'm probably being a bit inconsiderate of people's financial positions/customer experiences by saying don't ever pay up front. I just personally wouldn't unless it's a big job with big outlay. 

What do you do now though? He's said he'll do work or refund? It's a tricky one to go ahead with the work? 

But if you refund and hit him with bad reviews etc that's quite brutal for him? 

Edited July 11 by Alph

[Crewton]

9 hours ago, bimmerman said:

What trade are you in? 

Ive been getting quotes for loft conversions and due to the size of the work most companies are asking for a 1k deposit for the work down here, suppose it is a 6 week job though

A reputable company will be members of a deposit guarantee scheme that offers some comfort if the deposit is substantial.

[Stive Pesley]

5 hours ago, Alph said:

What do you do now though? He's said he'll do work or refund? It's a tricky one to go ahead with the work? 

But if you refund and hit him with bad reviews etc that's quite brutal for him? 

He's meant to be getting back to me today with a date. I've sent him a text just now reminding him that I'm waiting

I genuinely don't expect him to reply, and as you say - it would be awkward to have him do it now anyway. I wouldn't trust him to do a proper job

I have my next steps lined up. In the morning I will request my deposit back within 14 days otherwise I will file a claim with the small claims court

[Archied]

5 hours ago, Crewton said:

A reputable company will be members of a deposit guarantee scheme that offers some comfort if the deposit is 

 

be careful of these type of schemes , if they are anything like insurance backed garuantee s or Checkatrade , guild of master craftsmen ect they can be next to useless and give you a sense of security as a customer that they don’t actually provide , a lot of them sprung up during the recession to take money off struggling trades people trying to get an edge on winning work , sadly it is a minefield out there for customers and reputable trades people alike 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited July 11 by Archied

[bimmerman]

8 hours ago, Archied said:

Don’t be too put off with a deposit or stage payment schedule as most companies will require that scenario for anything sizeable , the best you can do is research the companies / trades persons history and be very rigid on stage payments not being payed until the works carried out actually reach the point to trigger payment, remember there is no such thing as a free lunch , if people come in with very low quotes the chances are they will be a problem and or hit you with extras , with something like a loft conversation you need a detailed written spec for the job from all quoters so you can compare properly and get what you think you are paying for

Yeah, it is a deposit of 2 percent of the job price so can understand it, wanting the security for essentially 3 months work. Im paying the going rate for it with someone who's locally known and it not the cheapest job!