Warne Out Out

[G STAR RAM]

8 hours ago, Andicis said:

This post is spot on and very close to my feelings.

The actions of Warne whilst being at the club doesn't give the impression that this is a long term project, namely the age profile of players signed and the reluctance to use the academy. It appears to be short term thinking recruiting players on their last legs to muddle our way up. 

I have serious doubts that if this squad was to get up that we would be able to stay up. Even with some additions, we would need a serious squad revamp. There is a lack of clear vision at the club at the moment, I can't quite see what it is that we're trying to achieve.

Promotion from League One.

At a recent forum they said they see the academy taking 18 months to 2 years to rebuild, from memory. 

[Srg]

On 17/11/2023 at 12:30, Chris_Martin said:

We'd all love to keep a manager long term and have some proper stability. That doesn't mean we should just give that to anyone though, they have to be the right fit for our club. 

For what it’s worth, he’s the 8th longest serving manager in the division and only 3 have done more than two calendar years. 

Keeping a manager for a long time is simply a pipe dream in today’s football. 

[BaianoPOTY98]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Promotion from League One.

At a recent forum they said they see the academy taking 18 months to 2 years to rebuild, from memory. 

Is that why Warne won’t pick the academy players? Surely giving some of them a run out when the opportunity arises could accelerate there progress, I guess we’re not gonna find out 😢

[G STAR RAM]

35 minutes ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

Is that why Warne won’t pick the academy players? Surely giving some of them a run out when the opportunity arises could accelerate there progress, I guess we’re not gonna find out 😢

They had a run out in the cup match.

Do we know what the academy manager is reporting to Warne?

[RoyMac5]

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

They had a run out in the cup match.

Do we know what the academy manager is reporting to Warne?

No. But we know what Warne said about bringing them on. We either have to be winning by a big margin or losing by a big margin - nothing to do with waiting 18 months to two years at all!

[BaianoPOTY98]

41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

They had a run out in the cup match.

Do we know what the academy manager is reporting to Warne?

Does it really matter what the academy manager is reporting back if when they get there chance in the first team they perform? You could get a whizz kid in the academy but struggles to step up to the next level, and vice versa, if an academy player steps up and plays well why wouldn’t u give him another chance? What message must this send out to other players released by top clubs and looking for another academy?

[Andicis]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Promotion from League One.

At a recent forum they said they see the academy taking 18 months to 2 years to rebuild, from memory. 

That isn't a long term aim though. We get up with our squad of typically older players that aren't even dominant at league one level, and then what? We don't seem to be building a squad that is capable of surviving when we get up, or with any resale value for us to further invest when we get there. It is of some concern, in my opinion.

[Jimbo Ram]

18 minutes ago, Andicis said:

That isn't a long term aim though. We get up with our squad of typically older players that aren't even dominant at league one level, and then what? We don't seem to be building a squad that is capable of surviving when we get up, or with any resale value for us to further invest when we get there. It is of some concern, in my opinion.

We need to consider re-sale value too..

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

Does it really matter what the academy manager is reporting back if when they get there chance in the first team they perform? You could get a whizz kid in the academy but struggles to step up to the next level, and vice versa, if an academy player steps up and plays well why wouldn’t u give him another chance? What message must this send out to other players released by top clubs and looking for another academy?

There's quite a big difference between Wolves academy and League One...as was shown.

Personally, I'm going to trust the judgement of the people that watch these players day in day out over people who have seen them play for 90 minutes. 

Just to remind everyone of the judgement of our fans, think what was said about players such as Will Hughes, Miles Addison, Pablo Mills, Callum Ball, Lewin Nyatanga, Lee Holmes...

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

That isn't a long term aim though. We get up with our squad of typically older players that aren't even dominant at league one level, and then what? We don't seem to be building a squad that is capable of surviving when we get up, or with any resale value for us to further invest when we get there. It is of some concern, in my opinion.

Its hard to start a long term project in the first team when you are under financial restrictions. 

As the club have said, the academy will take 18 months to 2 years to rebuild.

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

No. But we know what Warne said about bringing them on. We either have to be winning by a big margin or losing by a big margin - nothing to do with waiting 18 months to two years at all!

I think its called easing players in?

Seems sensible when we have such a toxic fanbase waiting to turn on the team.

[BaianoPOTY98]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

There's quite a big difference between Wolves academy and League One...as was shown.

Personally, I'm going to trust the judgement of the people that watch these players day in day out over people who have seen them play for 90 minutes. 

Just to remind everyone of the judgement of our fans, think what was said about players such as Will Hughes, Miles Addison, Pablo Mills, Callum Ball, Lewin Nyatanga, Lee Holmes...

Out of the above mentioned there was only Will Hughes and possibly Nyatanga that I thought would make it to a decent level ie prem league, having said that I thought Sibley would too 😢  But until u give some of the academy lads a run out with the first team we are never going to find out!, especially Weston after coming on as a sub and getting an assist and goal whether it’s Wolves academy or not his confidence would of been sky high, surely Crewe at home would of been the ideal next step up, even if coming on as a sub.

[CongletonRam]

13 hours ago, Andicis said:

This post is spot on and very close to my feelings.

The actions of Warne whilst being at the club doesn't give the impression that this is a long term project, namely the age profile of players signed and the reluctance to use the academy. It appears to be short term thinking recruiting players on their last legs to muddle our way up. 

I have serious doubts that if this squad was to get up that we would be able to stay up. Even with some additions, we would need a serious squad revamp. There is a lack of clear vision at the club at the moment, I can't quite see what it is that we're trying to achieve.

Warne would use the academy if he believed there were any academy players that were up to the grade. How can you berate him for that?

Who would you have signed...all young up and coming players? HOW? From money that has fallen out of the sky?

You say if we went up, we'd need a squad revamp. WOW. Really?! What a revelation that is!!

I'll answer the last part for you. Warne is trying to achieve promotion. He's not far...just outside of the top 6 with plenty of goals scored and not that many conceded compared to others. Granted, the football isn't great, but that's what you get when you are forced to bring in journeymen pros as that really is the market we have to operate in.

If this academy is so damn good, maybe you can give us all a breakdown of who and why is deserving of a place in the first team. I'm all ears.

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, CongletonRam said:

I'll answer the last part for you. Warne is trying to achieve promotion. He's not far...just outside of the top 6 with plenty of goals scored and not that many conceded compared to others. Granted, the football isn't great, but that's what you get when you are forced to bring in journeymen pros as that really is the market we have to operate in.

That's not what we had last season, but it is where we were. We've not gone forwards at all. 

[CongletonRam]

22 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's not what we had last season, but it is where we were. We've not gone forwards at all. 

OMG, we've not gone forward. Grounds to spend a bucket load of money, sack the manager and start all over again.

The RoyMac guide on how to run a football club.

[Andicis]

20 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

Warne would use the academy if he believed there were any academy players that were up to the grade. How can you berate him for that?

Who would you have signed...all young up and coming players? HOW? From money that has fallen out of the sky?

You say if we went up, we'd need a squad revamp. WOW. Really?! What a revelation that is!!

I'll answer the last part for you. Warne is trying to achieve promotion. He's not far...just outside of the top 6 with plenty of goals scored and not that many conceded compared to others. Granted, the football isn't great, but that's what you get when you are forced to bring in journeymen pros as that really is the market we have to operate in.

If this academy is so damn good, maybe you can give us all a breakdown of who and why is deserving of a place in the first team. I'm all ears.

 

Makes a change that you didn't just call me too impulsive or immature to hold an opinion, so hey that's growth!

Robinson, Fapetu, Brown and Weston are all good players that could have played more of a part than they have. I think a different manager would have given them a chance. And therefore, that's an entirely valid reason to criticise Warne. Not sure where in my post I was "berating" as opposed to voicing an opinion, but hey you are one for dramatics. 

Who would I have signed? No idea, don't know how much they had available to spend. I'd rather have added a few younger players for a bit more money rather than more of an older contingent mind. Other teams in the league with similar or lower budgets manage to get younger players signed mind, so pretending it is an impossibility is just playing daft. 

So we agree he isn't doing a good job of what he's trying to do basically? You assume that Warne is forced to make do with a squad of journeymen, do you think Stevenage and Oxford have a wealth of talent available? 

As you well know, I was referring to the size of the revamp, not that it would be needed. But again, flair for the dramatic clearly. Most sides can get by in the league above with a few key additions, we'd basically need to rip out the whole core. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

That isn't a long term aim though. We get up with our squad of typically older players that aren't even dominant at league one level, and then what? We don't seem to be building a squad that is capable of surviving when we get up, or with any resale value for us to further invest when we get there. It is of some concern, in my opinion.

The hope should be that everyone contracted beyond this summer should at least be a sqaud player next season, and not surplus to requirements. Some who would be starters in L1 would be backup in the Championship. There's still time for a number of new signings to adjust to playing for our club and prove they're good signings. I think it's also reasonable to assume we'll change to 3412 next season. Assuming promotion:

GK: ???, Vickers, ???

RCB: Nelson, Rooney

CB: ???, Bradley

LCB: ???, ???

RWB: Ward, Wilson

LWB: ???, Elder

RCM: ???, Fornah

LCM: ???, ???

AM: ???, ???

RCF: ???, ???

LCF: ???, Washington

 

That means we're currently short 14 players, 9 of which would need to be starters. A massive turnover of players, but that can be minimised by extending a number of contracts, and giving opportunities to the academy players to see if they are capable of filling those gaps.

Personally, I would try to extend the contracts for the following players to form my Championship squad: Wildsmith, Cashin, Forsyth, Bird, Thompson and Sibley. That leaves the following gaps: 6 starters (CB, LWB, CM, AM, CF, CF) and 2 backups (GK, CF)

This is where your concern kicks in - Warne is doing very little to aid transition. We need to give more minutes to those who are contracted beyond this season to see where they will fit in (as starters or backup), and test the best of our academy players to see if they can make that step up - either as squad players or even leap first team players and become regualr starters. In particular, Fornah and Thompson (when fit) should be starting ahead of Smith and/or Hourihane, eith the likes of Cox, DRobinson, Weston and Brown getting the odd opportunity too.

[RoyMac5]

46 minutes ago, CongletonRam said:

OMG, we've not gone forward. Grounds to spend a bucket load of money, sack the manager and start all over again.

The RoyMac guide on how to run a football club.

Nope. Just how to get the best from a lousy situation.

[Ram@Lincoln]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just to remind everyone of the judgement of our fans, think what was said about players such as Will Hughes, Miles Addison, Pablo Mills, Callum Ball, Lewin Nyatanga, Lee Holmes...

You're missing one of the most successful products from the academy, Izale McLeod. 15+ years in the football league, taking him to circa 500 games and 160 odd goals. Add another 50 odd games and 20 goals to that tally for non league. He's the all time record goal scorer at MK Dons too. 

Compare him to say Jamie Hanson who's currently on loan at Long Eaton from Ilkeston. He's definitely filled out from the skinny boy we had playing for us. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, BaianoPOTY98 said:

Out of the above mentioned there was only Will Hughes and possibly Nyatanga that I thought would make it to a decent level ie prem league, having said that I thought Sibley would too 😢  But until u give some of the academy lads a run out with the first team we are never going to find out!, especially Weston after coming on as a sub and getting an assist and goal whether it’s Wolves academy or not his confidence would of been sky high, surely Crewe at home would of been the ideal next step up, even if coming on as a sub.

Yes I dont disagree with using the youngsters in the FA Cup.

If you're going to experiment though you cant complain if we get knocked out.

Only saying that as some people pointing out the funds we would have received for getting through to the next round.