You might not realise it but Paul Warne's doing pretty well

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

And IF the referee at Bolton had not got three crucial decisions wrong we'd have been three points better off than we are now and IF the referee at Bristol Rovers last season had awarded us a free-kick instead of a penalty against White, as he should have done, we'd have reached the play-offs before we went to Hillsborough where we'll never know what the result would have been, IF Curtis Davies correctly had remained on the pitch and the penalty correctly hadn't been given. IF the game-in-hand against Northampton had not been postponed and we had won it we would be in the play-off places now and not outside them. 

But IFs mean nothing in football because we can't reverse the decisions that were given against us.

Warne has emphasised today that we will not be underestimating Cheltenham but we know in any League the unexpected result can happen, such as Wednesday losing at FGR at the end of last season. We should beat Cheltenham but if your bigIF comes to fruition then let's deal with it then. The fact is IF that happens we'll be three points worse off than we hope we will be. But IF it doesn't we'll all be enjoying Saturday evening. The IFs from the past are irreversible and we shouldn't be negatively dealing with IFs in the future that may or may not happen; we are going to Cheltenham hoping and expecting to win, IF we don't then deal with the reality then. The uncertainty of the outcome of this season is enough to live with without having to deal with unknown IFs ahead.

I think the squad we have is unlikely to see much change in January and Paul Warne will probably be the head coach until at least the end of the season. Support from the fans as we try to get up will help the management and players in their endeavours if we able to help them with that. 

And as for your original question, IF I hadn't started this thread today and IF your hypothetical 1-0 defeat occurs, then I simply would not be starting one next Sunday when a new poll may reveal that the number of fans wanting Paul Warne sacked instantly has now shot up to 50% because I simply have never believed that you can physically push water uphill.

Those old enough to remember will tell you that when Arthur Cox started down a similar route to Warne, there were rumbles of discontent when we finished seventh in 1985. There was anguish the next season as we fought and achieved promotion in third place in the 45th game. There were fears as to how we may fare back in the second tier but we won the League the next season and went back to the top division. I have no expectation of that happening next season whatsoever but the current mood is familiar.

I found your response pretty iffy in places 😜

(At least we can safely say that the "I" and "F" keys on your keyboard are functioning as they should!)

 

Not sure if I was too vague in my original point but I'm with you on the futility of dragging up the could-have-beens of the past. We were seriously disadvantaged by shoddy refereeing at Bolton and, yes, had we avoided defeat there (or even won) we'd not only have more points on the board but PW would probably have more credit to use up with a 0-0 home draw against Cambridge and (more often that not this season) a style of play that has not captured the imagination.

But my point was that views on how he's doing can swing dramatically according to any recent set of results, particularly if it includes a result that many would consider disastrous (even if it isn't). The impact of a few dodgy (or "iffy", if you will) results is exacerbated by a wider context of questionable tactics and personnel choices (and even interviews which seem at odds with what fans have witnessed).

I definitely wasn't judging Warne on the basis of a 0-1 reverse to the league strugglers that hasn't actually happened, and I appreciate your admission that you wouldn't have started a thread like this in the aftermath of such a result.

Everyone has their own idea on what is a fair period of time over which to judge Warne's tenure - we won't even agree necessarily on how long that is, but it shouldn't be a single game or a handful of them. In that sense I agree with your notion of looking at a broader picture. At the same time, choosing a couple of days after a brilliant win at Blackpool to point out that actually Warne's successful Rotherham teams have always done a bit "meh" after 10 games before ultimately getting promoted, could be a little misleading. (Who did they play? What were the reasons for their somewhat average starts? etc.) While the stats are interesting and may calm the discontent in some quarters, it doesn't count for anything either way if he's got the season to get us promoted. (I don't think the Portsmouth/Oxford managers would look at those stats and think "Hmm, perhaps we've started a bit too well here...")

[Guest]

3 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Looking at a single game is ridiculous. Look what happened at Bolton. We lost but it was not down to our performance.

Not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with my point but, yes, that's what I think too and apologies if that wasn't clear in my earlier comment.

[MadAmster]

18 hours ago, sage said:

They absolutely have. 90% of the criticism has been about performance and style of play. 

... or maybe he tailored things to the players actually available?

[MadAmster]

18 hours ago, Jubbs said:

What was wrong with Wigan's second??

Wyke had both hands full of Cashin's shirt, preventing him from jumping to head the ball. That's a foul.

[Jubbs]

9 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Wyke had both hands full of Cashin's shirt, preventing him from jumping to head the ball. That's a foul.

Not a chance that's a foul, Cashin has to be stronger. If that's given as a foul, ever aerial duel there is going to be a foul.

[norwichram]

12 hours ago, CongletonRam said:

 

An interesting post and a good read though I do have to take you to task on the part in bold.

Out of our first team squad of 26, a total of 18 have played the majority of their career at League One or lower level than that.

Out of the 8 that have played most of their career at Championship level(or above), none of them have stand out stats in the Championship. Add to that that one or two at the minute are having their best seasons for a long time. Look at Waghorn, after leaving Derby, he scores 3 goals in 51 games at League One level and he's now scored 6 in 9 games for us.

I'm not being negative, just giving some interesting stats.

I am firmly behind Warne, not because I like his dour brand of football, but because I am of the opinion that he is still dealing with a squad that is capable of challenging for the play offs though that may not be good enough for supporters. He was clearly unable to bring in some of his targets over the summer, most noticeably a striker.

I think we have a team that is capable of moments. We are not good enough to dominate teams when they are happy to sit back. We lack guile and we look lethargic at times. I must add there that the signings of Fornah and Nyambe are potentialy the best we have brought in.

I shall let you off this once CongletonRam .. like I quite clearly said..  a lot of the squad have played in the championship. 😂😂

your post is being fact checked as we speak but nonetheless as they do not support my argument they are to be discarded. I believe this to be the rules of the forum. 
 

Used to date a girl from Delamere Park, Cuddington. 

Nice part of the world.

appreciate the post 

Super Derby Super Rams 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, jameso said:

I found your response pretty iffy in places 😜

(At least we can safely say that the "I" and "F" keys on your keyboard are functioning as they should!)

 

Not sure if I was too vague in my original point but I'm with you on the futility of dragging up the could-have-beens of the past. We were seriously disadvantaged by shoddy refereeing at Bolton and, yes, had we avoided defeat there (or even won) we'd not only have more points on the board but PW would probably have more credit to use up with a 0-0 home draw against Cambridge and (more often that not this season) a style of play that has not captured the imagination.

But my point was that views on how he's doing can swing dramatically according to any recent set of results, particularly if it includes a result that many would consider disastrous (even if it isn't). The impact of a few dodgy (or "iffy", if you will) results is exacerbated by a wider context of questionable tactics and personnel choices (and even interviews which seem at odds with what fans have witnessed).

I definitely wasn't judging Warne on the basis of a 0-1 reverse to the league strugglers that hasn't actually happened, and I appreciate your admission that you wouldn't have started a thread like this in the aftermath of such a result.

Everyone has their own idea on what is a fair period of time over which to judge Warne's tenure - we won't even agree necessarily on how long that is, but it shouldn't be a single game or a handful of them. In that sense I agree with your notion of looking at a broader picture. At the same time, choosing a couple of days after a brilliant win at Blackpool to point out that actually Warne's successful Rotherham teams have always done a bit "meh" after 10 games before ultimately getting promoted, could be a little misleading. (Who did they play? What were the reasons for their somewhat average starts? etc.) While the stats are interesting and may calm the discontent in some quarters, it doesn't count for anything either way if he's got the season to get us promoted. (I don't think the Portsmouth/Oxford managers would look at those stats and think "Hmm, perhaps we've started a bit too well here...")

I agree with most of that. Actually, I didn't start the thread because of my delight at the win at Blackpool. On the way to Blackpool I was of the view that the game could go either way but particularly because they were at home and in good recent form Blackpool were the favourites to win in my mind; you can say that before the game I'd have taken a point so the win was really a bonus. On top of that, most seem to agree that the performance was the best of the season, which at this stage could be a good sign. Yesterday, for my own curiosity in seeing how we compared with Rotherham and our previous promotion sides at this stage, I had a quick look and I was very surprised at what I found. But all of those teams achieved promotion at the season's end and this team still has a lot to do if it is to join them in the promotion list. But having surprised myself, I simply shared it. But it is only 10 games and of course provides no guarantee of where we will stand after 46. Also, the Clough & Taylor, Cox and Smith promotions were the springboard for the best three periods of our post-war history; in Clough & Taylor's case our whole history. My hopes and expectations don't extend to thinking that we will be chasing them any time soon.

Let's just hope that on Saturday we don't stall by being on the wrong end of your hypothetical bigIF defeat 😆🐏.

[Tyler Durden]

I don't think it's any surprise that out of the 16 positive reactions to the immediate reply to the OPs original post there was only one of these posters whom also contributed to the 39 positive reactions received for the thread starter.

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't think it's any surprise that out of the 16 positive reactions to the immediate reply to the OPs original post there was only one of these posters whom also contributed to the 39 positive reactions received for the thread starter.

Say wutt?!?! 😂 

[MadAmster]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Not a chance that's a foul, Cashin has to be stronger. If that's given as a foul, ever aerial duel there is going to be a foul.

You think holding an opponent's shirt so they can't even attempt to jump for a high ball isn't a foul? Time to learn the Laws of the game.

[RamLad1884]

Weirdly Nyambe has proven to be the last piece of the puzzle and it seems to have clicked as a result (bet no one thought that would be said prior to the summer). 
 

Not saying Warne is a genius, or even that he’s successful yet but he did say that there was a championship player we were after that we were chasing. The signings are looking good value (Waggy scoring goals, Nelson a defensive rock, Fornah giving us something different in midfield etc). 
 

It’s a funny old game and if we can get a run of 10+ games unbeaten that will probably set us up for a real run at automatics. If we can’t keep it consistent then it’s a marathon for the play offs. 

[Anag Ram]

11 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

You think holding an opponent's shirt so they can't even attempt to jump for a high ball isn't a foul? Time to learn the Laws of the game.

Cashin can’t win a header without climbing on an opponent’s back.

It would be pretty ironic if he got a penalty for shirt-pulling.

[Jubbs]

17 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

You think holding an opponent's shirt so they can't even attempt to jump for a high ball isn't a foul? Time to learn the Laws of the game.

Cashin didn't jump because Wildsmith attempted to collect the cross. Cashin is also holding onto Wyke, there's literally nothing in it. Cashin has to be stronger and Wildsmith has to command his area better.
I know the laws of the game, I officiated for multiple years. That is never a foul.

[MadAmster]

59 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Cashin didn't jump because Wildsmith attempted to collect the cross. Cashin is also holding onto Wyke, there's literally nothing in it. Cashin has to be stronger and Wildsmith has to command his area better.
I know the laws of the game, I officiated for multiple years. That is never a foul.

We'll have to beg to differ.

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Cashin can’t win a header without climbing on an opponent’s back.

It would be pretty ironic if he got a penalty for shirt-pulling.

Free kick to Derby in this case, as Cash was in his own box, "defending". Jubbs sees it differently but that's OK.

[MadAmster]

4 hours ago, Jubbs said:

Not a chance that's a foul, Cashin has to be stronger. If that's given as a foul, ever aerial duel there is going to be a foul.

The Laws state that you shouldn't have hold of an opponent or his shirt. They also say that you shouldn't lever yourself upwards using your arms on an opponent or by pushing him so he can't go for the ball. We might just see more goals if the holding and pushing was punished by refs, as it should be but hasn't been for ages.

"Pundits" will tell you it's "all part of the game". The Laws say it isn't. 

[sawley_ram]

I read on the DT that we have scored more away goals than any other team in the top four divisions. As it's from the DT I'm a bit dubious -- anywhere we can look at stats like this?

[Srg]

1 minute ago, sawley_ram said:

I read on the DT that we have scored more away goals than any other team in the top four divisions. As it's from the DT I'm a bit dubious -- anywhere we can look at stats like this?

They likely took it from the pre-match interview. Owen Bradley @Owen87ITKasks Warne about it.

[TomTom92]

The Blackpool result was fantastic, i saw the starting line up and had the noose ready.

However, we must continue in this vein of form. Teams that get promoted go on big unbeaten/winning streaks and if we do every match players and fans will start to turn up expecting to win (Something Russell alluded to during SM1 season) and the feel good factor will be in full swing. 

Rightly or wrongly Warne will be judged because there's no other big team in the league this year and without being arrogant if Oxford get automatic promotion and we don't then questions should be asked.  

I do get the feeling throughout the club that we're trying to be nice to make up for Mel's tenure. But in my opinion we're maybe a bit too nice at the moment. Look at the gumps, they have a drugs baron (allegedly) as owner and have been ruthless with their managerial appointments for the last 10 seasons. Have splashed cash with a finger up to FFP and are bending the rules by shifting their misfits off to Greece. I'm not saying we need to follow them verbatim but I do think especially in the transfer market our pulling power is less than what it should be.

But back to topic, if Warne can continue on this mini streak of form then i'm sure 99% of posters will be happy/ as larry. 

[Tyler Durden]

8 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Rightly or wrongly Warne will be judged because there's no other big team in the league this year and without being arrogant if Oxford get automatic promotion and we don't then questions should be asked.  

I do get the feeling throughout the club that we're trying to be nice to make up for Mel's tenure. But in my opinion we're maybe a bit too nice at the moment. Look at the gumps, they have a drugs baron (allegedly) as owner and have been ruthless with their managerial appointments for the last 10 seasons. Have splashed cash with a finger up to FFP and are bending the rules by shifting their misfits off to Greece. I'm not saying we need to follow them verbatim but I do think especially in the transfer market our pulling power is less than what it should be.

But back to topic, if Warne can continue on this mini streak of form then i'm sure 99% of posters will be happy/ as larry. 

It does sounds like you're saying that as we have a larger fanbase than Oxford then we have some kind of hierarchy that we should get promoted in preference to them and if we don't then this will be Warnes fault that expectation hasn't been fulfilled.

I could be misreading it though.