Can anyone actually name a single improvement Warne has done since arriving?

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

The vast majority of the criticism I have seen has been constructive. I'm very critical of the decision made to bring Warne in, how Warne has managed the squad and the way we approach games. I've been constructive in my critiques saying why i think we're on the wrong path and what i think we need to see corrected. No-one is wallowing in negativity and nor are we demanding Barcelona football. But we've played poorly too regularly for too long and it is starting to grate on people. 

It's not that we should be wiping the floor with little old Carlisle it's that the performance is a reflection of the terrible performances we've consistently seen. Eric Steele, an experienced man in football, was absolutely scathing about our performance and demanded better. I think he's a realistic man and is hardly one who wallows in negativity either. 

Possession football is totally doable in this division. Plymouth played a possession based game and wiped the floor with the division. So did Brentford before them, Bournemouth before them and Swansea before them. This is off the top of my head. We looked far better and more comfortable under Rosenior playing a possession based game than we have done under Warne playing basketball.

Fans see things differently, as is in our case.  Wanting Warne replaced is not constructive criticism for example, it is more akin to beating a dead horse in my view, money will not be thrown around like too often before, sustainability being the motto now.

If the performance in the Carlisle game was terrible, yet we won 0-2 does that not imply that we should have won it by more, ergo wiped the floor with them?

I am not familiar enough with the playing style of Plymouth, Bournemouth, Brentford and Swansea in their promotion years, but we have tried it four times, with Cocu, Lampard, Rooney and Rosenior and failed to reach promotion each time.  Shall we go for five?

[Tyler Durden]

I guess some of the recent comments are very similar to well if you don't like reading page after page of identical threads moaning about Warne then don't come onto the forum 

[Leeds Ram]

7 minutes ago, ramit said:

Fans see things differently, as is in our case.  Wanting Warne replaced is not constructive criticism for example, it is more akin to beating a dead horse in my view, money will not be thrown around like too often before, sustainability being the motto now.

If the performance in the Carlisle game was terrible, yet we won 0-2 does that not imply that we should have won it by more, ergo wiped the floor with them?

I am not familiar enough with the playing style of Plymouth, Bournemouth, Brentford and Swansea in their promotion years, but we have tried it four times, with Cocu, Lampard, Rooney and Rosenior and failed to reach promotion each time.  Shall we go for five?

If Warne cannot change and develop then the logical solution is to replace him. I don't like the fact that we put him on a 4 year deal as it has boxed us in somewhat. I don't think his job is in danger unless we slide down the table tbh. 

Well no. There are ways to win games. Some people, such as former coaches would say we shouldn't be aiming for a smash and grab against a side who have won once all season which replicates much of the dysfunctional tactical set up and playing style we've seen throughout the season. If we had won 2-0 with more possession, playing more on the front foot and not being penned in our own half for 60 minutes, fans would have been happier. 

So you're not familiar with the playing style of teams who've been in our division but you think you know what is required to get out of it? Sounds a bit odd to me. Neither Rooney nor Lampard were possession-based purists only Cocu and Rosenior were really. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Leeds Ram

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

If Warne cannot change and develop then the logical solution is to replace him. I don't like the fact that we put him on a 4 year deal as it has boxed us in somewhat. I don't think his job is in danger unless we slide down the table tbh. 

Well no. There are ways to win games. Some people, such as former coaches would say we shouldn't be aiming for a smash and grab against a side who have won once all season which replicates much of the dysfunctional tactical set up and playing style we've seen throughout the season. If we had won 2-0 with more possession, playing more on the front foot and not being penned in our own half for 60 minutes, fans would have been happier. 

So you're not familiar with the playing style of teams who've been in our division but you think you know what is required to get out of it? Sounds a bit odd to me. Neither Rooney nor Lampard were possession-based purists only Cocu and Rosenior were really. 

Football is about scoring more goals than the opponent.  If you have 70% possession yet lose the game, that was a bad performance, not just in my view, but factually.

Rooney and Lampard were both possession based managers, Lampard wanted a higher tempo game within that system and Rooney, hmm didn't really have the know how to activate what he said he wanted.

I don't watch other teams than Derby County, I know what I have seen here and it failed.

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, ramit said:

Football is about scoring more goals than the opponent.  If you have 70% possession yet lose the game, that was a bad performance, not just in my view, but factually.

Rooney and Lampard were both possession based managers, Lampard wanted a higher tempo game within that system and Rooney, hmm didn't really have the know how to activate what he said he wanted.

I don't watch other teams than Derby County, I know what I have seen here and it failed.

You're conflating results with performances.... quite a basic error to make. You can win games while playing badly and lose games while playing well. 

Rooney to me appeared to be a practical manager who wasn't tied to a possession-based game unlike Rosenior and Cocu.

[ramit]

7 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

You're conflating results with performances.... quite a basic error to make. You can win games while playing badly and lose games while playing well. 

Rooney to me appeared to be a practical manager who wasn't tied to a possession-based game unlike Rosenior and Cocu.

Winning a game is good enough for me, that is a good performance, cheers all round and all that, more like that next week please, keep winning, anything else is puritanical nonsense.  It is a battle based game where the superior tactic usually wins the day, be it pretty or not.

It's been a pleasure debating with you, we won't get much farther with it.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

6 hours ago, Archied said:

I keep seeing this lack of interest in the academy players for the first team accusation thrown at warne , do we not realise our academy has had its heart ripped out just as much as the rest of the club ,,, perhaps we are trying to bring in young players and build an under 21 team that has a base and some stability without the need to keep pulling them into the first team for a while , from what I hear our under 21 s are getting beaten game on game , maybe there’s a thought process of building a regular competitive team there again , getting bashed up regularly is not a good confidence builder in young players to step up to first team football, we are rebuilding the WHOLE club from the brink of extinction and bare bones 🤷🏻‍♂️

While you make a very fair point, Warne has basically admitted to, up until recently, not being particularly interested in the U21s and academy. I believe he resolved to watch more of them at the recent fans forum, though I'm sure someone who was there can remember more accurately.

[DavesaRam]

29 minutes ago, ramit said:

Fans see things differently, as is in our case.  Wanting Warne replaced is not constructive criticism for example, it is more akin to beating a dead horse in my view, money will not be thrown around like too often before, sustainability being the motto now.

If the performance in the Carlisle game was terrible, yet we won 0-2 does that not imply that we should have won it by more, ergo wiped the floor with them?

I am not familiar enough with the playing style of Plymouth, Bournemouth, Brentford and Swansea in their promotion years, but we have tried it four times, with Cocu, Lampard, Rooney and Rosenior and failed to reach promotion each time.  Shall we go for five?

I don’t think arguing against possession-based football is as valid as some people think.
 

We should have been promoted under Lampard, and would have been if he hadn’t had his head turned by Chelsea. That was bad enough, but even worse Lampard’s drawn out leaving party such that Cocu didn’t get to meet his new players until they were part way through their pre-season tour of America, by which time the transfer window was as good as over, with no-one signed and virtually no-one available. We then had Rooney’s arrival which have us all a boost until it was clear to everyone but him and Cocu that Rooney’s legs were gone. How many points that set us back isn't clear, but then Rooney started to undermine Cocu, again at a points cost. We then had the EFL came riding into town, so post-Lampard all our managers have faced impossible difficulties. I know that Rooney would gave got us to 17th place if it wasn’t dir the points deduction, which isn’t a promotion result, but he was still suffering the fall-out of a massively weakened squad courtesy of our Frank, followed by being hamstrung by Rick Parry and his henchmen.

Do ate we demanding Rosenior-ball instead of what is being dished up at the moment? I am not so sure. Maybe even the results aren’t so much the issue. What we want to see is the team competing with our opponents instead of being outplayed fir most of every match, ie a clear plan, playing to our strengths (which we do actually have) and some tactical nous.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, On the Ram Page said:

If David Clowes hadn’t saved the Club you wouldn’t be on here constantly moaning. Possibly Don Amott might be the subject of your negativity instead. In my view Clowes has carte  blanche to do whatever he wishes for a few years yet. He will run the Club as he sees fit and employ who he wants to employ. The Club is gradually being transformed totally I guess, even if most of us aren’t aware of the steps being taken.

First and foremost Clowes is a Derby County fan - he is totally aware of our current internal situation (unlike us) and no doubt, just like us would like to see better performances than we have seen so far. The only difference is that he has stumped up millions to save our club - I know you have bought your season ticket and have you travelling costs. But there is a huge difference and I think he deserves our support, rather than questioning his early tenure. If he believes that Pearce is the right person to employ, knowing fully what has happened in the past, then who are we the question his decision.

Under Paul Warne our away results have improved, lest we not forget previous terrible runs. We do need to improve at home, but for many visiting teams a visit to Pride Park is their FA Cup Final and make things difficult for us.I am sure things will improve as some of our players return. We have had cruel luck with injuries so far and I just don’t buy the idea that these are caused by the current training regime (which of course to many is Paul Warner’s fault too).

For goodness sake, there are a few “fans” who need to bite their lips and not behave like spoilt children because they can’t immediately have all the toys for Christmas they wanted. If you can’t support our Club, in these early years of rebuild, go and “support” some other club or start your own Forum “ Negative Rams Members Only”. There are a few that would love to contribute.

I really cant understand the 'be grateful and shut up' angle.

By the way, Morris is  a Derby fan. He was given something of a free ride thanks to this and some rather obvious PR.

[RoyMac5]

26 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I really cant understand the 'be grateful and shut up' angle.

By the way, Morris is  a Derby fan. He was given something of a free ride thanks to this and some rather obvious PR.

We're grateful to Clowes and before him there was Lionel and then LofG, before them Webb, and grateful to Longson? Etc. The Admin event is just another 'event' in Derby's long history. What do we exist for, some of you seem to suggest that existing is enough?

Edited September 28, 2023 by RoyMac5

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

I am not familiar enough with the playing style of Plymouth, Bournemouth, Brentford and Swansea in their promotion years, but we have tried it four times, with Cocu, Lampard, Rooney and Rosenior and failed to reach promotion each time.  Shall we go for five?

You’re really including Rosenior in a list of managers who failed to win promotion? In his 10 games in charge?  Even Rooney is debatable given we were effectively coasting into admin at that point and the squad was falling apart.

Anyway, by that logic, we’ve failed to win promotion 3 times playing direct football, under Rowett, Pearson and Warne, shall we make it 4?

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

We're grateful to Clowes and before him there was Lionel and then LofG, before them Webb, and grateful to Longson? Etc. The Admin event is just another 'event' in Derby's long history. What do we exist for, some of you seem to suggest that existing is enough?

So you asked me was I grateful to Maxwell and now you quote Webb !

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So you asked me was I grateful to Maxwell and now you quote Webb !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09wrykf

"Rams Administration: Stuart Webb helped save Derby from financial troubles in 1984

Stuart Webb recalls the events of another difficult time in Derby County history."

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09wrykf

"Rams Administration: Stuart Webb helped save Derby from financial troubles in 1984

Stuart Webb recalls the events of another difficult time in Derby County history."

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

Did he not bring Maxwell in ! 

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

I guess some of the recent comments are very similar to well if you don't like reading page after page of identical threads moaning about Warne then don't come onto the forum 

The stretch to end all stretches that one. 

Suggesting that if reading something online is making you unhappy, angry or anything else,  that there are multiple ways of avoiding it, like not opening certain threads or taking a break - very much optional and easy choices to make

vs

Suggesting that someone drops a lifelong commitment to supporting their football team and stops doing that to go and watch a different club, one they have no emotional connection with, just because they have issues with the current brand of football being played and concerns over the long term prospects of the club they love and have made a massive financial commitment to supporting.

Rather a long distance from being the same thing.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Did he not bring Maxwell in ! 

Black and white, not everything in life is black and white. Did he not help save the Rams?

[Curtains]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Black and white, not everything in life is black and white. Did he not help save the Rams?

Yes but you equated my support for Clowes with a comment which effectively asked was I grateful to Maxwell .

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Yes but you equated my support for Clowes with a comment which effectively asked was I grateful to Maxwell .

Maxwell ensured that the record transfer fees which Liverpool paid for Dean Saunders and Mark Wright were paid into his own bank account. DCFC never saw a penny of it. He asset-stripped us and sole almost £5m.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Yes but you equated my support for Clowes with a comment which effectively asked was I grateful to Maxwell .

No I didn't.

I said that the current situation that is in the past was part of Derby County's long history.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Maxwell ensured that the record transfer fees which Liverpool paid for Dean Saunders and Mark Wright were paid into his own bank account. DCFC never saw a penny of it. He asset-stripped us and sole almost £5m.

That’s why I couldn’t say I was grateful to Maxwell when asked .

I am grateful to Clowes