Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Archied]

Perhaps you might miss visiting your daughter without a permit if over a hundred days , or an elderly parent or the countless other things we consider ourselves free to choose to do but that said I’ve had my two posts and don’t intend playing silly buggers whilst you paint yourself into a corner yet again??‍♂️

[1of4]

6 hours ago, Archied said:

Personally I believe this whole net zero fiasco / pretence is being driven by money and power , climate crisis lockdowns anyone?

What isn't driven by money and power?

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Perhaps you might miss visiting your daughter without a permit if over a hundred days , or an elderly parent or the countless other things we consider ourselves free to choose to do but that said I’ve had my two posts and don’t intend playing silly buggers whilst you paint yourself into a corner yet again??‍♂️

"Buses, coaches, taxis, delivery vans, HGVs, motorbikes and bikes are exempt and there are exceptions for blue badge holders and people with caring responsibilities."

This actually sounds like an innovative and interesting idea, vs say the Ulez extension for London. I'm sure there will be edge cases where some people miss out, but don't think it deserves writing off so quickly. In terms if freedom, bus journeys should be quicker without as many cars clogging up the streets...car drivers switching to buses might find their new journey quicker too.

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

What isn't driven by money and power?

Football?

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Sounds like a good idea to me. Encouraging proper communities where everything you need is within 15 minutes, and people make fewer needless journeys in their cars. Or have I missed something?

What doesn't make sense is that this is claimed it's being introduced to stop people using cars for short trips, but under the scheme there is no penalty whatsoever for doing that. It's only if you need to go on a longer journey, outside of your local zone, that you get fined. When surely that is a more sensible use of a car? I was there over the weekend and discussing it with friends. Apparently this is being imposed on the city by the Tory county council because they "own" the road network, even though they don't have a singular councillor in the city. Madness! 

[Gritstone Ram]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Sadly I think you're right. And it ultimately proves what a short-sighted decision it was for Thatcher to close all the pits in the first place. The damage done to communities that has lasted for a generation is now shown to have been a bad move. People never learn

 

I don’t think she closed them all.

[Archied]

9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

"Buses, coaches, taxis, delivery vans, HGVs, motorbikes and bikes are exempt and there are exceptions for blue badge holders and people with caring responsibilities."

This actually sounds like an innovative and interesting idea, vs say the Ulez extension for London. I'm sure there will be edge cases where some people miss out, but don't think it deserves writing off so quickly. In terms if freedom, bus journeys should be quicker without as many cars clogging up the streets...car drivers switching to buses might find their new journey quicker too.

The last 3 years has seen a massive onslaught against peoples freedom to go about they’re lives , first under cover of covid and now climate crisis ( the so called conspiracy theorist s said clearly this would be the case ) , it shows no sign of letting up and as the article says and @carlsagan points out , the rhetoric is this is happening no matter what people think ( democracy? ) , look at the ulez , started with central london ,got away with it and now it’s out to the counties 

the boiling frog analogy is very clear , there was a time when you could ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians and just focus on taking care of your family, those days are gone , they are reaching so deeply into peoples ability to live , earn and go about they’re business with freedoms fought for by past generations it’s becoming impossible 

[Wolfie]

ULEZ was brought in because of horrific air quality in the cities and to try and prevent kids dying from air pollution - just recalling that poor bugger who lived near the North Circular in London.

It's not even as if it's that strict & meant to keep the worst polluters out (without having to pay, anyway) by carrot/stick method to incentivise less polluting vehicles. My 2 litre diesel isn't affected by it, for example.

[1of4]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

The last 3 years has seen a massive onslaught against peoples freedom to go about they’re lives , first under cover of covid and now climate crisis ( the so called conspiracy theorist s said clearly this would be the case ) , it shows no sign of letting up and as the article says and @carlsagan points out , the rhetoric is this is happening no matter what people think ( democracy? ) , look at the ulez , started with central london ,got away with it and now it’s out to the counties 

the boiling frog analogy is very clear , there was a time when you could ignore the corrupt and incompetent politicians and just focus on taking care of your family, those days are gone , they are reaching so deeply into peoples ability to live , earn and go about they’re business with freedoms fought for by past generations it’s becoming impossible 

The country did vote in a referendum to give up many freedoms, to give a regime carte blanche to further remove many of our human rights from us.

There is talk that this government want to escalate not resolve the present industrial disputes. In the hope it will demonize those striking and the general public will accept the passing of laws to make strikes illegal, thus further reducing all freedoms.

[ariotofmyown]

45 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

ULEZ was brought in because of horrific air quality in the cities and to try and prevent kids dying from air pollution - just recalling that poor bugger who lived near the North Circular in London.

It's not even as if it's that strict & meant to keep the worst polluters out (without having to pay, anyway) by carrot/stick method to incentivise less polluting vehicles. My 2 litre diesel isn't affected by it, for example.

That is one way at looking it.

Another way is that a mystery ruling elite have cancelled democracy and are eroding all our freedoms for reasons that are never quite spelt out. Something to do with money and power, but no specific details. Like how they locked us all down in Covid to so they could, erm, "control us". 

There can be no middle ground! The real enemy are those that think it's generally a good idea to reduce pollution, but understand it will involved some compromise and some of the details won't be quite right.

 

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

There is talk that this government want to escalate not resolve the present industrial disputes. In the hope it will demonize those striking and the general public will accept the passing of laws to make strikes illegal, thus further reducing all freedoms.

I'm sure there is (certainly in one half of the political spectrum) but I think you're giving the government too much credit regarding their capacity for strategic thinking, to be able to pull that off.

Just to keep it on topic, the same goes for conspiracies around so-called eroding freedoms to reduce pollution and carbon emissions. All of these "grand plans" require democratic governments to plan for longer than the time to the next election and I really don't think that happens much anywhere.

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

The country did vote in a referendum to give up many freedoms, to give a regime carte blanche to further remove many of our human rights from us.

There is talk that this government want to escalate not resolve the present industrial disputes. In the hope it will demonize those striking and the general public will accept the passing of laws to make strikes illegal, thus further reducing all freedoms.

Many/most would argue the opposite. The country voted in a referendum to reclaim democratic accountability rather than be governed from overseas by bureaucratic decree. One of Tony Benn's 5 questions about democracy is "how do we get rid of you?" and now we are in a position where we can vote people out. The difficulty is that all the main parties have near indistinguishable policies, but there is then an option for ordinary people to come forward and stand against them. 

[Stive Pesley]

15 hours ago, Archied said:

Perhaps you might miss visiting your daughter without a permit if over a hundred days , or an elderly parent or the countless other things we consider ourselves free to choose to do but that said I’ve had my two posts and don’t intend playing silly buggers whilst you paint yourself into a corner yet again??‍♂️

But don't you agree that largely the intentions behind it are good (building sustainable local communities, cutting down on needless car journeys etc). Even if the rules aren't quite perfect yet - we, as a society need to do *something*.

If you're advocating for doing nothing, and  then ultimately you're advocating for the end of the human race. 

I'd rather we have innovative pilot schemes, take feedback, tweak them, learn and move on. 

 

[Comrade 86]

16 hours ago, Archied said:

Perhaps you might miss visiting your daughter without a permit if over a hundred days , or an elderly parent 

The article states that two visits per week / 100 visits per year are fine, does it not? I'd imagine there will also be dispensations for those requiring daily care worker attendance too. 

[GboroRam]

3 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

The article states that two visits per week / 100 visits per year are fine, does it not? I'd imagine there will also be dispensations for those requiring daily care worker attendance too. 

Sounds like there's a need to reduce miles driven, but some people will be unhappy unless they can carry on doing the same as they always did. 

[Comrade 86]

16 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Sounds like there's a need to reduce miles driven, but some people will be unhappy unless they can carry on doing the same as they always did. 

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Archied]

16 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

That is one way at looking it.

Another way is that a mystery ruling elite have cancelled democracy and are eroding all our freedoms for reasons that are never quite spelt out. Something to do with money and power, but no specific details. Like how they locked us all down in Covid to so they could, erm, "control us". 

There can be no middle ground! The real enemy are those that think it's generally a good idea to reduce pollution, but understand it will involved some compromise and some of the details won't be quite right.

 

There can be no middle ground you say ,,, erm spot on and you are the other side of the more extreme so called conspiracy theorists ,

oh how easy and intellectually smug to post the stuff above 

mystery ruling elite you say , there’s no such thing unless you can point them out , oh how comforting, there is no erosion of democracy oh how comforting , perhaps those mystery sinister people / powers you smugly dismiss if you can’t put a name on them are simply corporate entities (;people behind them who gradually seem to own / control more ) , the banking world , established long standing wealth holders who lobby , donate , threaten , reward , exert a measure of control over whichever party is elected or being set up to be elected , gather all the dirt ready to use as leverage or released/ leaked at the time best suite and chosen to either out or in who serves them best ,

like or loath Johnson but make no mistake he was got rid of when chosen to get rid of ( the same way he was gotten in to power ) 

like or loath truss but make no mistake a clearer case of things running the government rather than the government running things you will not see , a matter of days and the democratic chosen one was out 

you see you don’t convince me any more than the full on extreme so called conspiracy theorists , it’s a bit like when you’ve been out with the family walking the dogs over the park and you get in the car and you can smell poo , you can all smell poo but some are not sure they can , your checking shoes and can’t seem to find it , but you know what , you can smell it , you know it’s there,

if it’s all the same to you I will put more faith in those who question this poo show and direction of travel that invariably leads to the poorer being poorer , having less power over they’re lives and less and less freedom whilst those elites go in the opposite direction despite the fact that these people are meant to be representing the people who elected them ,

your lack of questioning over covid is laughable, just as a one off tell me who behind who does it suit to pump vaccines into babies as young as 6 months in the USA and here when Scandinavian countries won’t give boosters to under 50 s after looking properly at the data , perhaps they have no real financial skin in the game , that’s just one of multiple issues that clearly makes no sense but I’m sure that no matter what transpires , YOU WONT QUESTION 

 

[Comrade 86]

[Archied]

18 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Sounds like there's a need to reduce miles driven, but some people will be unhappy unless they can carry on doing the same as they always did. 

Oh I’m all for change if it’s for the better of ALL , let’s pretend we are saving the lives of a very tiny percentage of the old at the cost of destroying the lives of countless more of the young let alone the actual cost in deaths of the young , next minute let’s pursue policies that care not a jot if the old die in un heated home’s choosing between heat or food 

you see people pick they’re little passionate cause and promote / defend it to the hilt no matter the impact on the whole , it’s a very wide world with with very wide and intertwining threads and impacts but hey let’s save all those unborn theoretical lives in the far off future no matter the cost to those actually living after all as many doom monger posters say , the end of the human race is at hand?

science science science , science without question s of all kinds by all kinds ( scientists) is not science , it’s dogma , cult , a stick to beat and suppress , a free pass , a flag to wave , as in the earlier post I’m stunned how many clearly intelligent people no longer question , how it’s become a stigma to question ,

no real answers were ever found to anything and then even amended , advanced , refined without question s, there are always questions and we all should be always asking them 

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Oh I’m all for change if it’s for the better of ALL , let’s pretend we are saving the lives of a very tiny percentage of the old at the cost of destroying the lives of countless more of the young let alone the actual cost in deaths of the young , next minute let’s pursue policies that care not a jot if the old die in un heated home’s choosing between heat or food 

You see, that's blatantly not true. 

When Insulate Britain were arguing for a national insulation program you argued against it. Although it would be better for all, you didn't agree because personally you wanted something different. 

When ideas are floated to reduce miles driven you disagree because personally you want to carry on doing what you always have done. 

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.