Finance thread 2022.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Money saving tip of the day number two:

Save a fortune in commuting costs and income tax by getting sacked from your job to enjoy a wonderful life on the dole.

Not only will get to watch This Morning everyday like all those bloody middle class home office b*******, but you can even save up your massive £2002 per year "salary" (assuming you eat, drink, wash and sleep for free) and in just 50 years you'll have enough money to buy a one bedroom flat. Assuming your payment doesn't get stopped after 6 months that is.

 

Almost Viz-like in its usefulness

[Stive Pesley]

42 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I hope tax’s are reduced, benefits are cut significantly and wages increased

I can guarantee the first two will happen if this lot stay in power, and the third one definitely won't

Normally (or if you're Meatloaf) you'd say that 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but in this case - 1 and 2 just don't work for me without 3 happening

 

 

[GboroRam]

15 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Except it's not. You have to earn over £100,000 to get to that point and that 100k is taxed in the normal way. They don't tax it all at 60%

>75000 take home from 125000 salary, paying less than 40%tax. I won't vouch for accuracy, but that's from a random tax calculator website. 

Taking home 75k, I don't see why they need extra handouts if I'm honest. 

[PistoldPete]

31 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Except it's not. You have to earn over £100,000 to get to that point and that 100k is taxed in the normal way. They don't tax it all at 60%

If I work Monday to Friday my Friday’s pay is taxed at 61.5%. A good advert for a four day week. 

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I didn't mention trickle down economics that's a strawman argument from you Eddie. I suggest you reread my posts, and you will see all I have said is having a higher marginal rate of tax is counterproductive as ultimately it doesn't capture any additional tax.   You simply reduce the incentives for people to work, leading to lower growth in the economy... so you are getting a higher rate, but  applied to a lower base figure.      

You didn't mention it? You most certainly did.

The entire principle of TDE has one starting point - tax cuts for the rich. Everything else follows on from that point - the theory is that if the people with the highest disposable income have even more, then they will spend more, thus stimulating the entire economy.

[AndyinLiverpool]

32 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

If I work Monday to Friday my Friday’s pay is taxed at 61.5%. A good advert for a four day week. 

So what's wrong with the four-day-week then? If that's how you feel, take it. If there's still work that needs doing, someone else can do it. If not, you're spending 20% of your working week doing stuff that adds nothing.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

If I work Monday to Friday my Friday’s pay is taxed at 61.5%. A good advert for a four day week. 

Reduce your marginal rate by disappearing down the pub on a Friday afternoon and not coming back. It used to work for me ?

[GeneralRam]

Problem in the UK has always been salaries, people just don't earn enough unless you're in London.

The country needs to decide if it's a high tax high benefit economy like Europe or a low tax, low benefit country like the US. Problem is we're a bit of both and that results in low salaries and the problems we're seeing now. 

To give you an idea on salaries, I frequently hire new university leavers in the US for IT support work and they're on $50-55k minimum starting. All this is in a relatively low cost of living states (Indiana, Ohio & Tennessee).... When I left university in UK (Although just under 15 years ago) and I earned just 17k GBP.

UK Salaries are a joke and need to change.

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

So what's wrong with the four-day-week then? If that's how you feel, take it. If there's still work that needs doing, someone else can do it. If not, you're spending 20% of your working week doing stuff that adds nothing.

It's a hyphothetical me Andy I don't earn £125k but yes if I did I would work a four day week rather than work on Friday for  a lower net rate than Monday to Thursday.   

As for "someone else can do it", I don't think high paid jobs are that easy to fill.. because they are high paid for a reason.. the person doing the job has skills and experience that others do not possess.  Can we find a doctor , dentist, or accountant or lawyer just like that? Or pretty much any job really .. truck driver, garage mechanic, plumber, anything.   

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, GboroRam said:

>75000 take home from 125000 salary, paying less than 40%tax. I won't vouch for accuracy, but that's from a random tax calculator website. 

Taking home 75k, I don't see why they need extra handouts if I'm honest. 

And if I earn £100k my take home pay is £65,960 (see below). So if I earn £125k and decide to do a four day week to drop my salary back to £100k I get paid £317 per day for Monday to Thursday (£65,960 divided by 52 weeks and divided by four).

I have foregone the extra £9,184.02 in net pay, which works out at £176.62 per extra day (9184.02 divided by 52). 

So I will work Monday to Thursday for £317 net pay per day, but decline the option to work Fridays at only £176.62 per day.  

And the Government, instead of getting £50k in tax and NI per your calculation gets only £40k in tax and NI ; it has lost £10k in tax revenues.

That has nothing to do with "trickle down economics" it's just arithmetic.     

 

 

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

Problem in the UK has always been salaries, people just don't earn enough unless you're in London.

The country needs to decide if it's a high tax high benefit economy like Europe or a low tax, low benefit country like the US. Problem is we're a bit of both and that results in low salaries and the problems we're seeing now. 

To give you an idea on salaries, I frequently hire new university leavers in the US for IT support work and they're on $50-55k minimum starting. All this is in a relatively low cost of living states (Indiana, Ohio & Tennessee).... When I left university in UK (Although just under 15 years ago) and I earned just 17k GBP.

UK Salaries are a joke and need to change.

And what employment and social benefits do those employees enjoy? 

I ask because I'm often startled at how little some US professions are paid considering their employment benefits are minimal. I've also seen situations where people turn murderous or suicidal when faced with redundancy in the US because they're about to lose their family health insurance cover? 

[PistoldPete]

We've not had central heating on yet this autumn.. looks like its got warmer now hopefully.

I have worn three jumpers though last week.  

[GboroRam]

16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

And if I earn £100k my take home pay is £65,960 (see below). So if I earn £125k and decide to do a four day week to drop my salary back to £100k I get paid £317 per day for Monday to Thursday (£65,960 divided by 52 weeks and divided by four).

I have foregone the extra £9,184.02 in net pay, which works out at £176.62 per extra day (9184.02 divided by 52). 

So I will work Monday to Thursday for £317 net pay per day, but decline the option to work Fridays at only £176.62 per day.  

And the Government, instead of getting £50k in tax and NI per your calculation gets only £40k in tax and NI ; it has lost £10k in tax revenues.

That has nothing to do with "trickle down economics" it's just arithmetic.     

 

 

I'm confused. Your pay £100k, take home nearly £66k. Taxed at 33%, no? 

[1of4]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

And if I earn £100k my take home pay is £65,960 (see below). So if I earn £125k and decide to do a four day week to drop my salary back to £100k I get paid £317 per day for Monday to Thursday (£65,960 divided by 52 weeks and divided by four).

I have foregone the extra £9,184.02 in net pay, which works out at £176.62 per extra day (9184.02 divided by 52). 

So I will work Monday to Thursday for £317 net pay per day, but decline the option to work Fridays at only £176.62 per day.  

And the Government, instead of getting £50k in tax and NI per your calculation gets only £40k in tax and NI ; it has lost £10k in tax revenues.

That has nothing to do with "trickle down economics" it's just arithmetic.     

 

 

Your method of calculating how much tax you'd pay for working Friday, also applies for how much tax you'd pay for working the Thursday. Separating one day's pay and calculating the tax you pay without factoring in the portion of pay at the lower rate of tax allowance that would be used on the whole week, gives a false narrative.

So why not work a three day week and avoid paying another 62%, by your calculations, of tax.

 

[Crewton]

I think Pete doth protest too much. It just looks like a "1st world problem" when you live in a country where currently kids are going hungry and foodbanks are a boom industry. I've got family members working long shifts, sometimes 10-12 days straight without a day off, on minimum wage, for whom £500 is the difference between getting by and struggling to feed the family, pay rent etc. So I've got little sympathy for someone who can choose to give up work because their last day of 35 hour 9-5 working week is technically done on half pay. Sorry, but that's how I see it. 

[PistoldPete]

23 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Your method of calculating how much tax you'd pay for working Friday, also applies for how much tax you'd pay for working the Thursday. Separating one day's pay and calculating the tax you pay without factoring in the portion of pay at the lower rate of tax allowance that would be used on the whole week, gives a false narrative.

So why not work a three day week and avoid paying another 62%, by your calculations, of tax.

 

That could also be an option assuming you and your family could live comfortably enough on three days wages. 

[PistoldPete]

26 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'm confused. Your pay £100k, take home nearly £66k. Taxed at 33%, no? 

I think you are confusing average rate of tax with marginal rate of tax. But yes the average rate of 8income tax and ni for someone on 100k is 33% for someone on 125k it’s 40%. The marginal rate of tax on that extra 25k is over 60%.

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think Pete doth protest too much. It just looks like a "1st world problem" when you live in a country where currently kids are going hungry and foodbanks are a boom industry. I've got family members working long shifts, sometimes 10-12 days straight without a day off, on minimum wage, for whom £500 is the difference between getting by and struggling to feed the family, pay rent etc. So I've got little sympathy for someone who can choose to give up work because their last day of 35 hour 9-5 working week is technically done on half pay. Sorry, but that's how I see it. 

I am not protesting as it doesn’t affect me directly. Just observing that whether you or I have sympathy with it or not, people affected in that way will just make the logical move and cut their hours. so Goverment gets less tax in the end.. and the employer gets less productivity. In some cases that employer might be the NHS well that will affect us too. 

[ketteringram]

27 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I think Pete doth protest too much. It just looks like a "1st world problem" when you live in a country where currently kids are going hungry and foodbanks are a boom industry. I've got family members working long shifts, sometimes 10-12 days straight without a day off, on minimum wage, for whom £500 is the difference between getting by and struggling to feed the family, pay rent etc. So I've got little sympathy for someone who can choose to give up work because their last day of 35 hour 9-5 working week is technically done on half pay. Sorry, but that's how I see it. 

Not sure anyone is looking for your sympathy. Think it's just being pointed out that if you try to tax higher earners more, there's usually a way, they'll avoid most of the extra. Either working, therefore earning less, or using salary sacrifice etc. So either way, the govt ends up with less.

[cstand]

Be careful if going shopping to the supermarket my mum  went with a friend did a shop at Tesco including usual drink of coffee in the cafe, went to pay found only two manned checkouts open.

Both being in their seventies did not want to use self service had to wait nearly 50 minutes to get to the checkout so late leaving the car park resulting in a £60 fine.

Some people got so fed up they abandoned their shopping in the store.

Apparently Morrisons are doing the same more self service less people on checkout tills.

There was a long wait at the self service as well.

Will be worse when Christmas shopping so check arrival time in the car park if you don’t want a fine.

Edited October 5, 2022 by cstand