The Administration Thread

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

It was the fellow EFL football clubs who voted to expel Bury from the Football league - that’s the main thing to remember!

No they didn’t vote on it. Efl board decided to do it , I don’t think individual clubs had a vote. Mind you Stephen Pearce was on the Board wasn’t he?

Bury had run out of cash and I think games had to be postponed . So things got more desperate for them even so a relegation of one division could have worked not cast adrift into the outer leagues. 

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Unless we sold everyone to cover the shortfall ?

Something like £20m extra player profit in 19/20 and the same again in 20/21 or 21/22 would have seen us avoid any punishment.

As I've said before, in terms of P&S penalties, we're lucky to be forced into changing policy.
It's everything else that's gone off that has resulted in 'punishments' far worse than they would have been.

? I am not even sure if we sold everyone off when Fat Frank left we would have had enough would we? ?

Not that it mattered. Morris decided he would bolster the squad with a huge outlay on Bielik. The man had lost the financial plot. Good job COVID came along though. Gave him a great cover story.

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

And when the Gibbon says I am not backing down what do you do then ?

Then you publish the minutes of the meeting . And let him deal with the fallout.

[Alty_Ram]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

I do understand your point and let’s say we agree to pay over millions of pounds to the owner of Middlesbrough football club for what becomes an agreement then we would expect the Middlesbrough players to put claims in against Derby county for lost promotion bonuses and expected contract increases, what would your view be? To pay them as well? - it’s never ending and has to be stopped at source which is where the EFL are failing. I want what is best for Derby county but paying anything to Middlesbrough and Wycombe on these supposed claims is a dreadful thing to do.

...and don't forget the nearby pubs, shops and burger stalls who will all have taken a hit on sales without those bigger PL crowds.... and the owner of the burger van would have bought more Euro Lottery tickets if he/she was a bit more flush and they are now 40million out of pocket because of evil cheating Derby.

It's a bit of a lose/lose really. Pay them something and this specific immediate problem goes away to be replaced by potentially something even worse as there is an absolute free for all and lots of legal firms made even richer.

[PistoldPete]

12 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

You've hit the nail on the head Scarlet, Steve Dale bought the club for £1, Pretty sure the fit and propper ownership wasn't followed, The head of the EFL at the time was Debbie Jevons, Selling a professional football club for £1 who had just won promotion should have set alarm bells ringing, But no, The new owner had a very chequered past when owning other companies, This would have flagged up the "fit and propper ownership", Dale was looking to make a fast buk, He started by not paying his staff on time, Then not paying them at all, The captain of Bury went on local radio and confronted Dale on air concerning non payment of wages.

Dale was getting regular abuse, So much so that the male population of Bury were trying to get into his gated premises, One time when on the phone to the police they were outside giving him abuse.

The upshot of all this is...the EFL went for a coffee break came back and decided to expell Bury FC, A shocking inditement of an organisation who couldn't give a toss where one of it's members were drowning, The Bury MP who spoke in Parliament said the EFL are not fit for purpose or words to that extent.

And did Debbie Jevons get sacked?

or resign in disgrace? What do you think? 
 

any organisation that can appoint  Ridsdale onto its Board clearly doesn’t know the meaning of the word accountability.

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

No they didn’t vote on it. Efl board decided to do it , I don’t think individual clubs had a vote. Mind you Stephen Pearce was on the Board wasn’t he?

Bury had run out of cash and I think games had to be postponed . So things got more desperate for them even so a relegation of one division could have worked not cast adrift into the outer leagues. 

The EFL is the clubs we keep hearing ! - anyway I believe they did vote on removing them - it will be a nice project for someone to find the full record of it.

[vonwright]

19 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

I agree it's probably a long shot now, but it won't take months. All we need to do is file a notice of arbitration:

That's going to take a lawyer like an hour to draft, and then you can tweak it for the other clubs.  We don't need to take any of them further. We don't need to appoint lawyers to argue our case or anything.  Make it clear to the clubs we're claiming against that we'll drop the claims as soon as we're cleared.  But the most important thing, is that any LAP hearing our case knows the full consequences of giving a decision against us.

Certainly seems it would be worth the administrators, or someone connected with the club, checking whether there is any time limit on claims, and (if not) then mentioning the possibility at least. Perhaps asking Gibson if he thinks QPR owe us 2x the amount he is claiming from us, since we made the play-off final?

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

? I am not even sure if we sold everyone off when Fat Frank left we would have had enough would we? ?

Not that it mattered. Morris decided he would bolster the squad with a huge outlay on Bielik. The man had lost the financial plot. Good job COVID came along though. Gave him a great cover story.

Iram please don’t use phrases like “ Good job COVID came along though”. COVID has wrecked too many peoples lives . 

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

And did Debbie Jevons get sacked?

or resign in disgrace? What do you think? 
 

any organisation that can appoint  Ridsdale onto its Board clearly doesn’t know the meaning of the word accountability.

Yet the clubs vote Ridsdale onto the EFL board 

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I do understand your point and let’s say we agree to pay over millions of pounds to the owner of Middlesbrough football club for what becomes an agreement then we would expect the Middlesbrough players to put claims in against Derby county for lost promotion bonuses and expected contract increases, what would your view be? To pay them as well? - it’s never ending and has to be stopped at source which is where the EFL are failing. I want what is best for Derby county but paying anything to Middlesbrough and Wycombe on these supposed claims is a dreadful thing to do.

Any payment made would have a binding agreement that no more claims could be made by Boro and that we are not accepting that we are liable. The whole claim is ludicrous, you know it, I know it, the footballing world know it, but unfortunately he has the EFL on board and is enjoying having our balls in a vice and gently squeezing. So do we keep on moaning about it and see ourselves liquidated or do we try and find a compromise that enables a takeover ??

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Then you publish the minutes of the meeting . And let him deal with the fallout.

While we go under….

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

Yet the clubs vote Ridsdale onto the EFL board 

Which is why the EFL has to be sacked off and replaced by an independent regulator. 

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

£20m is exactly the amount of that reserve valuation (or whatever it was called) from the Pride Park sale IIRC.  I'm fairly sure we were planning on using it to cover that particular hole (in one season at least).  The fact that the written reasons for the -9 points agreed decision explicitly mentioned it, and banned us from using it, suggests that the hold up between submitting our accounts and that decision was down to us arguing over whether we could use it. 

I think the hold up was us wanting to implement a different policy altogether. Coincidentally, I bet it likely would have resulted in the fewest possible points being deducted given the losses.

 

5 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

? I am not even sure if we sold everyone off when Fat Frank left we would have had enough would we? ?

Not that it mattered. Morris decided he would bolster the squad with a huge outlay on Bielik. The man had lost the financial plot. Good job COVID came along though. Gave him a great cover story.

True. Who did we have of value going into 19/20? Roos, Keogh, Malone, Bogle, Holmes, Lawrence, Bennett, Jozefzoon, Waghorn, Marriott and Martin.
It would be a real struggle getting £20m P&S profit out of that group ? 

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Any payment made would have a binding agreement that no more claims could be made by Boro and that we are not accepting that we are liable. The whole claim is ludicrous, you know it, I know it, the footballing world know it, but unfortunately he has the EFL on board and is enjoying having our balls in a vice and gently squeezing. So do we keep on moaning about it and see ourselves liquidated or do we try and find a compromise that enables a takeover ??

I know what you are saying but a binding agreement with the owner of Middlesbrough football club doesn’t cover any other claims either from ex players or other football clubs it just covers one particular claim - Bristol city could just as easily start claiming something in that season 

[Seth's left foot]

19 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

I do understand your point and let’s say we agree to pay over millions of pounds to the owner of Middlesbrough football club for what becomes an agreement then we would expect the Middlesbrough players to put claims in against Derby county for lost promotion bonuses and expected contract increases, what would your view be? To pay them as well? - it’s never ending and has to be stopped at source which is where the EFL are failing. I want what is best for Derby county but paying anything to Middlesbrough and Wycombe on these supposed claims is a dreadful thing to do.

Their claims should be against the EFL who are happy to stand aside as it keeps them out of the firing line.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

I know what you are saying but a binding agreement with the owner of Middlesbrough football club doesn’t cover any other claims either from ex players or other football clubs it just covers one particular claim - Bristol city could just as easily start claiming something in that season 

We worry about that after the takeover and then if necessary make counter claims against the likes of Villa and QPR. But I think you will see a change that prevents this type of ? claim ever happening again…

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think the hold up was us wanting to implement a different policy altogether. Coincidentally, I bet it likely would have resulted in the fewest possible points being deducted given the losses.

Points 3-7 below make me think we were just throwing as much mud at the wall as we could, and hoping some of it stuck.

[TooFarInToTurnRed]

35 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

The Forest ‘dodge’ needs to be looked at, but we would have breached P&S limits whatever FRS 102 compliant amortisation policy we used. The 9 points was for a significant overspend on net transfer fees and players wages, which no amortisation policy could eventually hide. Everything went on and on because Morris was clearly reluctant to submit any accounts for 2 to 3 years.

The rules are already there to stop this, assets (players) can only be sold to related parties at "Fair Mark Value" which can be determined by the EFL if necessary and retrospectively have their P&S calculations amended.

[PistoldPete]

9 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

The EFL is the clubs we keep hearing ! - anyway I believe they did vote on removing them - it will be a nice project for someone to find the full record of it.

The expulsion was made by Efl executive. “to maintain the integrity of the League. “ what integrity needed Ridsdale and co? So not clear what rule was being applied or on whose authority . Just because they can. And like to wield power it makes them feel important.

[Skin em Ted]