Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Carnero]

52 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Yearly figures would be reset in the years where losses exceed £13m in the failed periods. This would not prevent being punished for future failed periods.

So under the rules, a £4m overspend is 4 points. 15/16 and 16/17 exceed £13m so are reset to £13m for future periods.

15/16 drops off for the 2019 period, so only 16/17 reset figure is used, 17/18 and 18/19 actual figures are used.

Another £4m overspend and another 4 points. 18/19 is then reset as well for future periods.

£5m overspend this time, which also falls inside the 4 point bracket. 19/20 also reset for future periods.

The 2021 period is calculated differently. This is a 4 year period, with the 2 Covid seasons averaged.

This time we make an adjusted P&S profit and avoid any penalty.

 

This would match the EFL's offer of 12 points, 3 of which are suspended.

How to the P&S submissions look if we didn't have to change amortisation method, presumably we'd still have ended up with breaches in periods ending 18/19 & 19/20?

[My Dad’s A Derby Fan]

I’m really not sure that the club can complain about not getting the EFL loan.

Try getting a loan from the bank and not being able to produce a set of accounts.

[jono]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

With respect, our 'manipulation' of financial figures is different to selling a player or having bigger gates. The latter two are accepted as being part and parcel of being a football club in a competitive league. As for amortising differently, Morris and Pearce should have been more upfront and trasparent as to their policy. If they had been clear in 2015/2016 (or whatever the time was when they first introduced their policy) I am pretty sure they would have been guided by the EFL then that their policy might not be construed as fair compared to, or by, the other member clubs. They were trying to be cute, creative, and it came back to bite them. Unfortunately it has caused huge repercussion for the Club you and I support.

I do get your point but with player values and transfers being such a huge thing in any case, and FFP also a key fundamental then surely Amortisation methods allowed should be crystal clear. These computations are quite literally the axis that the finances of football clubs revolve around. Covering those in the rules is as blindingly obvious as how many subs are allowed on the bench.

[My Dad’s A Derby Fan]

Asking for my dad (the Derby fan)..... Have the club now submitted all the accounts to Companies House for the last few years?

 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Only pretty sure? Clearly you're not certain of their competency to actually do what you're suggesting.

Me I'm pretty sure they'd have just continued to consider it something beyond their level of responsibility; don't forget that Kieran Maguire grassed us up / wrote to the EFL alerting them to the potential issues in June 2018 yet they didn't do anything for 19 months to seek any clarity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51322797

 

 

And just to be clear what Maguire is saying is that using non zero values at end of a players contract would not be compliant. Which I think is obvious given the BOsman  ruling.

in fact all he was highlighting was that the notes were suggesting something very non compliant. So maybe if they had not been so sloppy in the description in the notes no one would have been too bothered . The notes suggested something far worse than was actually the case.

[PistoldPete]

24 minutes ago, My Dad’s A Derby Fan said:

Asking for my dad (the Derby fan)..... Have the club now submitted all the accounts to Companies House for the last few years?

 

They don’t have to.

[StarterForTen]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They don’t have to.

May I ask, why is this the case? Surely if the club gets taken out of Administration as a going concern (rather than a sale of assets) won't it be required to post accounts?

[My Dad’s A Derby Fan]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

They don’t have to.

Which is the attitude which got the club in the mess it is now

[PistoldPete]

6 minutes ago, StarterForTen said:

May I ask, why is this the case? Surely if the club gets taken out of Administration as a going concern (rather than a sale of assets) won't it be required to post accounts?

The delay in the accounts is due to Efl challenging the basis for the P and s accounts. Until the basis for that is agreed they cannot finalise accounts for 2018/19 and beyond I would think.

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, My Dad’s A Derby Fan said:

Which is the attitude which got the club in the mess it is now

I think the delay in accounts is due to Efl rather than the club.

[Ghost of Clough]

39 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Do these figures include the stadium money that was 'discovered'?

No

36 minutes ago, Carnero said:

How to the P&S submissions look if we didn't have to change amortisation method, presumably we'd still have ended up with breaches in periods ending 18/19 & 19/20?

Failure in only 2020 - 12 points (possibly extra added on for aggravating factors - rapidly increasing losses)

[My Dad’s A Derby Fan]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The delay in the accounts is due to Efl challenging the basis for the P and s accounts. Until the basis for that is agreed they cannot finalise accounts for 2018/19 and beyond I would think.

The EFL and amortisation have nothing to do with Companies House. It is a legal requirement to submit accounts to Companies House and HMRC. 

[hintonsboots]

12 minutes ago, My Dad’s A Derby Fan said:

Which is the attitude which got the club in the mess it is now

Is that a quote from your Dad ?

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, My Dad’s A Derby Fan said:

The EFL and amortisation have nothing to do with Companies House. It is a legal requirement to submit accounts to Companies House and HMRC. 

Companies House didn’t challenge Derby’s audited accounts. Efl did . Four years after the amortisation policy was noted in the accounts. 

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, hintonsboots said:

Is that a quote from your Dad ?

I think someone should tell his Dad he is stirring up things on the Rams forum.

[My Dad’s A Derby Fan]

6 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

Is that a quote from your Dad ?

Yes

[Carnero]

12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

No

Failure in only 2020 - 12 points (possibly extra added on for aggravating factors - rapidly increasing losses)

So regardless of method used, we'd have always ended up with a circa 12pt. deduction this season, in fact amending the figures to straight line is arguably going to give us a lower deduction than otherwise would have been the case.

[duncanjwitham]

6 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Companies House didn’t challenge Derby’s audited accounts. Efl did . Four years after the amortisation policy was noted in the accounts. 

I could be mis-remembering (we've had so many contradictory things come out etc), but I'm sure at one stage we were told that companies house had been informed that there was an ongoing dispute about the form of our accounts, and were at least aware of (if possibly not ok with) us withholding them until that had all been agreed.

[Carnero]

12 minutes ago, My Dad’s A Derby Fan said:

The EFL and amortisation have nothing to do with Companies House. It is a legal requirement to submit accounts to Companies House and HMRC. 

Now we're in administration the requirement to file the overdue accounts is superseded by the "statement of affairs" that will be filed at Companies House shortly. 

[hintonsboots]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think someone should tell his Dad he is stirring up things on the Rams forum.

Should be at school anarl.