Pride Park Goes Cashless

[TigerTedd]

11 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Feel for (not so) old folk like my grandparents. Early 70's but don't have a mobile phone let alone one that can handle mobile payments.

My grandmother does use a card to pay for things, but she doesn't go to every game. My grandad goes to the bank every week and draws put the money he needs for the week (via passbook) and pays cash for everything.

He's never going to learn how to use a card at his age, so this just deprives the club of some income and him of some chips at half time. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme of things but one example of something that makes things more alienating for our older fans.

Shame.

On a broader point, a cashless society is not a great idea. What's the stat? Something like for every pound spent as cash it goes around the local area 4 times, just once for card transactions. That might not be entirely accurate but CBA to look it up.

Also, some people struggle with abstract concepts and once money solely becomes such, it means they'll spend even more that they don't have.

Great if you're a banker though.

But what is there to learn? Here’s a card, tap it against the machine when the server tells you to. I literally couldn’t think of anything easier, there is nothing to learn there.

im not having age as an excuse. Just bought my 83 year old dad his first Apple Watch and he’s getting on that quite happily. He doesn’t use half of the features, I’m just happy that it’ll alert me if he falls, but I have shown him how to use Apple Pay with it. 

I know for a fact that there’s a lot of places that have been deprived of money because they only accepted cash. ‘Sorry mate, we don’t take card.’ ‘Well I don’t carry cash, so it looks like we both lose.’

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

But what is there to learn? Here’s a card, tap it against the machine when the server tells you to. I literally couldn’t think of anything easier, there is nothing to learn there.

im not having age as an excuse. Just bought my 83 year old dad his first Apple Watch and he’s getting on that quite happily. He doesn’t use half of the features, I’m just happy that it’ll alert me if he falls, but I have shown him how to use Apple Pay with it. 

I know for a fact that there’s a lot of places that have been deprived of money because they only accepted cash. ‘Sorry mate, we don’t take card.’ ‘Well I don’t carry cash, so it looks like we both lose.’

I don't know, I'm young. When he see's a card machine he probably looks at it in the same way I do when he shows me the inner workings of a combustion engine. Complete mystery.

Whilst it's just a tap and go (if you have a contactless card - which he doesn't), I know it worries him that he's paid the right amount, that he's not been robbed. The amount displaying in such small writing (to an elderly person) doesn't help that.

Glad it works for you but it doesn't for everyone, and you and I, as card tappers, don't lose anything by cash also being accepted.

 

 

[TigerTedd]

15 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

I don't know, I'm young. When he see's a card machine he probably looks at it in the same way I do when he shows me the inner workings of a combustion engine. Complete mystery.

Whilst it's just a tap and go (if you have a contactless card - which he doesn't), I know it worries him that he's paid the right amount, that he's not been robbed. The amount displaying in such small writing (to an elderly person) doesn't help that.

Glad it works for you but it doesn't for everyone, and you and I, as card tappers, don't lose anything by cash also being accepted.

 

 

Okay, so you could help him get a contactless card. It’s just a phone call to the bank. 

reassure him that he’s as likely to be accepting the wrong amount on a card machine as he is to be short changed with cash. 

have a bit more faith in older people. If he’s in his 70s now, he would have been using a digital phone (ie not a rotary phone) in his 40’s, or even a calculator earlier than that. A card reader looks no different. It’s a form factor we’ve been using regularly for over 30 years. Has he spent the last 30 years in bewilderment? I doubt it.

people seem to be too quick to brand older people with, ‘they won’t get it, everything is moving too fast for them.’ But computers have been used regularly in the work place since the 90s, scarily, that’s over 30 years ago now. Mobile phones have been common place for over 20 years, and smart phones for over a decade. So unless someone’s in their 90s now, they would have come across these things before their retirement enough for them not to be scary works of the devil.

fair enough, there’s many people that still don’t know one end of a mouse from the other, but we’re talking about tapping a card against a machine. I’ve got a bit more faith that people can understand that idea, even if they don’t understand all the inner workings and tech behind it.

it costs us efficiency in the process. The vendor has to have two payment systems running at the same time, that’s not efficient. That increases costs all round, and the time it takes to process each individual transaction. An extra 10 seconds on each transaction on 30,000 people all trying to buy a pint at half time, is 5,000 extra minutes, which is 83 extra hours. Can’t really squeeze all that into half time. It makes a huge difference if you can save just 5 or 10 seconds per transaction. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by TigerTedd

[TigerTedd]

I think, when the queen dies, we should just go cashless then. 

gow much money is it going to cost to reprint all the money with Charles’ face on it, when a cashless society is an inevitability anyway. I really hope we’ll just keep the old money with the queens head on while we phase cash out. 

I get that they can’t just say ‘when the queen dies, we’re going cashless’, cos you need to give vendors plenty of time to prepare (and with brexit and Covid to deal with, they’ve got enough on their plates). Cos that deadline could be tomorrow (hopefully not) or 10 years from now. 

but I wouldn’t be surprised, when she does eventually go, for there to be some sort of announcement that they’re not going to reprint the cash (I also wouldn’t be surprised if it went the other way, because the government are not particularly forward thinking, and live wasting money). 

[RoyMac5]

45 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

reassure him that he’s as likely to be accepting the wrong amount on a card machine as he is to be short changed with cash. 

True. Or handing over the wrong note, or two notes sticking together. Plus if his card is stolen then his money is safe, if his cash is stolen it not. 

Is this info still true about card skimming, etc. Seems more cover with cards than with cash if lost or stolen.

Contactless card fraud: Myths and Realities exposed (paymentscardsandmobile.com)

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

True. Or handing over the wrong note, or two notes sticking together. Plus if his card is stolen then his money is safe, if his cash is stolen it not. 

Is this info still true about card skimming, etc. Seems more cover with cards than with cash if lost or stolen.

Contactless card fraud: Myths and Realities exposed (paymentscardsandmobile.com)

As long as you report any dubious transactions to your bank as soon as practicably possible, assist your bank with any subsequent investigations they undertake and aren't negligent with your personal information then you'll get any losses back Roy.

In some cases (not a given though) banks are becoming slightly more sympathetic to people whom have been victims to a telephone scam when they authorise transfer of monies from their account to a fraudsters. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

As long as you report any dubious transactions to your bank as soon as practicably possible, assist your bank with any subsequent investigations they undertake and aren't negligent with your personal information then you'll get any losses back Roy.

In some cases (not a given though) banks are becoming slightly more sympathetic to people whom have been victims to a telephone scam when they authorise transfer of monies from their account to a fraudsters. 

I'm keeping my aluminium foil helmet on though thank you very much! ?

[angieram]

16 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Taking cash payments is brilliant......for avoiding tax, that is the only reason I can think of.

Someone on our street had drive re-tarmacced last week. Team of young lads, all very helpful and polite, cleaned up each night, did a great job.

Friday afternoon, gaffer arrives and reels cash off a wad to pay them all (I know this because he was parked right outside my house.) No other paperwork, no payslips, nothing.

You just know that those lads will have no continuity of employment or guarantee of work,  will be "self-employed" and owner will be paying no tax, NI and probably liability cover. 

I also wondered where all that cash came from (it was a good wad!) 

[Reggie Greenwood]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Someone on our street had drive re-tarmacced last week. Team of young lads, all very helpful and polite, cleaned up each night, did a great job.

Friday afternoon, gaffer arrives and reels cash off a wad to pay them all (I know this because he was parked right outside my house.) No other paperwork, no payslips, nothing.

You just know that those lads will have no continuity of employment or guarantee of work,  will be "self-employed" and owner will be paying no tax, NI and probably liability cover. 

I also wondered where all that cash came from (it was a good wad!) 

Hopefully the drive will still look good in a couple of months but the “ cash ones “ rarely do , good luck with them getting hold of the gaffer if there are any problems 

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, angieram said:

Someone on our street had drive re-tarmacced last week. Team of young lads, all very helpful and polite, cleaned up each night, did a great job.

Friday afternoon, gaffer arrives and reels cash off a wad to pay them all (I know this because he was parked right outside my house.) No other paperwork, no payslips, nothing.

You just know that those lads will have no continuity of employment or guarantee of work,  will be "self-employed" and owner will be paying no tax, NI and probably liability cover. 

I also wondered where all that cash came from (it was a good wad!) 

Yer my dad fell for that one a few years ago, group of men door knocking saying that they had some left over tarmac from a job and would you like your drive tarmaced cash in hand. 

I was too late to stop him by the time I'd come round a few days later the sunken patches had started to appear, he showed me their business card which was a name and a mobile number which was permanently switched off. 

The birds enjoy it though when it rains. 

[angieram]

Just now, Reggie Greenwood said:

Hopefully the drive will still look good in a couple of months but the “ cash ones “ rarely do , good luck with them getting hold of the gaffer if there are any problems 

That's the thing, they aren't a fly by night firm, they have full contact details and listed on Trusted Trader etc.

My point is, I bet a fraction of their turnover is recorded. 

They aren't an exception either. Loads of traders will give you preferential prices for cash jobs, because they don't go though the books and we both "win".

I can see the attraction. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Taking cash payments is brilliant......for avoiding tax, that is the only reason I can think of.

the vast majority of uk businesses accept payment in cash (up to money laundering limits) sure they would disagree 

[JoetheRam]

4 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Okay, so you could help him get a contactless card. It’s just a phone call to the bank. 

reassure him that he’s as likely to be accepting the wrong amount on a card machine as he is to be short changed with cash. 

have a bit more faith in older people. If he’s in his 70s now, he would have been using a digital phone (ie not a rotary phone) in his 40’s, or even a calculator earlier than that. A card reader looks no different. It’s a form factor we’ve been using regularly for over 30 years. Has he spent the last 30 years in bewilderment? I doubt it.

people seem to be too quick to brand older people with, ‘they won’t get it, everything is moving too fast for them.’ But computers have been used regularly in the work place since the 90s, scarily, that’s over 30 years ago now. Mobile phones have been common place for over 20 years, and smart phones for over a decade. So unless someone’s in their 90s now, they would have come across these things before their retirement enough for them not to be scary works of the devil.

fair enough, there’s many people that still don’t know one end of a mouse from the other, but we’re talking about tapping a card against a machine. I’ve got a bit more faith that people can understand that idea, even if they don’t understand all the inner workings and tech behind it.

it costs us efficiency in the process. The vendor has to have two payment systems running at the same time, that’s not efficient. That increases costs all round, and the time it takes to process each individual transaction. An extra 10 seconds on each transaction on 30,000 people all trying to buy a pint at half time, is 5,000 extra minutes, which is 83 extra hours. Can’t really squeeze all that into half time. It makes a huge difference if you can save just 5 or 10 seconds per transaction. 

No point getting him one as he will not use it. He doesn't even do direct debits. Old people are stubborn.

Short changed argument - easier to correct that in the moment than it is to get money back in the event of an overcharge though.

He's never used a computer in his life I can guarantee that, and I highly doubt he's used a calculator as he's forever doing workings out on paper. He lives in the sticks, still has a rotary phone... some people just don't use technology and nor should they be forced to.

Efficiency argument - great I agree, although there are far far less people than 30k buying a pint at half time so savings are far less than you come up with there. And efficiency isn't everything when running a club - looking after your customers is.

Given they've still not stopped cheques I don't think you'll be getting your dream cashless society any time soon though.

Offering a choice shouldn't be  problem.