Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: I said Leicester have a stronger infrastructure than Derby, you said it was absolute rubbish, I showed it wasn't, you say don't throw facts on the table. As you were..... 1 hour ago, BaaLocks said: 2 hours ago, Rammy03 said: Start believing then. I see what wolves have done, what Leicester have done, what Aston Villa are currently doing after beating us narrowly in the final only 2 years ago. Why can't Derby county do it? Villa and Leicester are bigger clubs with stronger infrastructures than Derby. Sorry, might not read well but it's true. Your response suggested that the reason Leicester have done what they have is because they had a 'stronger infrastructure.' That is absolute rubbish. As I've said, they were in the same position as us 7 years ago. There is no reason why we can't do what they have done. You then throw out statistics of their income and team value, at this moment in time yes they do have a stronger infrastructure. My original point was that they had to build from the ground up to get into that position and Derby can do the same. I truly believe we can do what they have done, I believe we can get back to the top and stay there, not just being a Burnley but actually competing. If you think I'm a fool for thinking that then fine, but it's what I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: As for Wolves, sorry but they are definitely historically a bigger club than Derby County. It's OK, again, no sleep to lose over it. Champions three times, runners up six times, FA Cup winners four times, League Cup twice, UEFA Cup Finalists, Charity Shield four times. And they won the Texaco Cup before we did..... Yet their average league position is still below us. Same as Leicester, Leeds, West Ham, Burnley, Southampton, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, DCFC27 said: As I said, the subject was about removing promotion and relegation. If they were to do that I very much doubt it’d be on the basis of whose there right now, I’ve just suggested some clubs I’d imagine being in the mix for it as some of the bigger clubs in England IMO. I wouldn’t put it on history but more on attendances/facility’s/Capacities/financial capability. I guess history has created this to some extent. I said I’d like to see it with 24 teams too. I guess some people can’t have a debate, has to be your way or no way, mine was just a suggestion. No offence intended. It is a debate but I have said I don’t think your suggestion would ever happen and why. That’s how debates work isn’t it? I think if it ever happened then I it would be based on current status rather than wiping the slate clean and picking the biggest clubs or those based on facilities. It would be a much smaller league thus allowing a small group of teams to also play in Europe. I think it would be just the big boys in your list and not include either Sheffield teams, us, Forest or Sunderland. Any way, interesting but purely hypothetical debate as nothing like this will happen in my life time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Leicester revenue when promoted = £31m Derby revenue in 17/18 = £29.6m. Revenue now (non-covid scenario) would exceed what Leicester had when promoted. No debate, but that wasn't the exam question. You're also missing out the point that Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha invested £180m in the five years after he bought them - I don't see that type of person being anywhere near Derby at this time. Good to dream, but there are just way too many ifs and buts to make us a likely candidate to be an established top flight club any time soon. I've made my peace with that a while back, seems not all of us have - that's OK, it's what makes being a football fan fun, but I'm not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, BaaLocks said: No debate, but that wasn't the exam question. You're also missing out the point that Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha invested £180m in the five years after he bought them - I don't see that type of person being anywhere near Derby at this time. Good to dream, but there are just way too many ifs and buts to make us a likely candidate to be an established top flight club any time soon. I've made my peace with that a while back, seems not all of us have - that's OK, it's what makes being a football fan fun, but I'm not there. Mel's put just as much into Derby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Spanish said: I agree but still can't get around how the 3 promoted teams get players in that are happy with potentially a 1 year contract. This is an extinction event in the making where a different genetic line has a greater chance of survival, every year the poorer cousins lose out a little more. 34 minutes ago, DCFClks said: But without parachute payments, clubs wouldn't be able to buy the players needed to stay up. They could only offer 1 year contracts. We agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said: Yet their average league position is still below us. Same as Leicester, Leeds, West Ham, Burnley, Southampton, etc... I checked all the Wikipedia pages of all the clubs you mention - seems that average league position isn't something that makes it onto the honours page of any of them. Look, I get we all want to love our club, to have it be the best but it's also OK to admit some clubs are bigger than you - we can do it for Barcelona, Man Utd and Arsenal because it's true. It just gets a little harder when the clubs are nearer our size, but it doesn't mean it still isn't true. Interestingly, Wolves will likely overtake us this very season (http://alltimeleaguetable.co.uk/) in the one stat you seem to value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: No debate, but that wasn't the exam question. You're also missing out the point that Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha invested £180m in the five years after he bought them - I don't see that type of person being anywhere near Derby at this time. Good to dream, but there are just way too many ifs and buts to make us a likely candidate to be an established top flight club any time soon. I've made my peace with that a while back, seems not all of us have - that's OK, it's what makes being a football fan fun, but I'm not there. Dont you think Leicester fans thought that when they were in League 1 a few years before they gained promotion to the Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Mel's put just as much into Derby? Exactly, the only difference is they have invested in the right places. They're simply a better run club and have been for the last 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 49 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Absolute rubbish. Leicester were in the championship only 7 years ago. They finished second, we finished third. Since then they have won the premier League, played in the champions League and are consistently competing with the so called 'big 6.' They have got things right, they have the owners, they have put the right people in place, their recruitment is spot on. Nothing to do with 'stronger infrastructure.' They had to work to get that strong infrastructure. There's no reason Derby can't because I tell you now, this football club is bigger than many of our fans think. Stadium, fanbase, history, academy you name it we have as good as if not better than Leicester. And Leicester got there by cheating and robbing local business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Mel's put just as much into Derby? Has he? I hope you're not including the purchase of the stadium in that evaluation. And, even if you are, wopp dee doo coz it got us a few points above the relegation zone. My point is that if we want to be the next Leicester someone else will need to come and do it all over again, and do it right this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 minute ago, DCFC1388 said: Dont you think Leicester fans thought that when they were in League 1 a few years before they gained promotion to the Prem Yes, I do. And I'd be delighted if someone bought us and ploughed £180m in getting us to the top flight. But I don't think it's going to happen, no matter how much I care for my own football club. I'd love to be wrong, but I have a feeling I won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Exactly, the only difference is they have invested in the right places. They're simply a better run club and have been for the last 7 years. The only difference that matters is that they are the 19th most valuable club according to Forbes and we're not on the list. What they did to get there is irrelevant, how many cups they won is irrelevant. Whether they will blow it all in five years and be back among us is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: And Leicester got there by cheating and robbing local business Explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: The only difference that matters is that they are the 19th most valuable club according to Forbes and we're not on the list. What they did to get there is irrelevant, how many cups they won is irrelevant. Whether they will blow it all in five years and be back among us is irrelevant. If what they did to get there is irrelevant, then why do you deny our chances so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Explain? Went into administration and got away with no punishment , lots of local business inc the Leics Ambulance service have never been paid ( don’t think they paid the stadium builders the final 5.5 mill owed either). The season they went up the broke FFP rules and got a small fine. If they had not got lucky and come down that first season they would have been in big financial trouble . Plenty about it on the internet without too much searching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 What else has been forgotten? The stadium is superb and earns them lots of money. But Leicester couldn't afford it. They built it, moved into it in the summer of 2002, and then a couple of months later, the club went into administration with £30million of debts. Hard-working people lost out massively. The company which built the stadium was forced to just forget about the final payment of £5.5m. The East Midlands Ambulance Service was left with a shortfall of £16,000 From the Fail on Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: If what they did to get there is irrelevant, then why do you deny our chances so much? Coz I don't think it's going to happen - I think I've made that point. What evidence do you have (and I mean evidence, not dreams) that it will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Coz I don't think it's going to happen - I think I've made that point. What evidence do you have (and I mean evidence, not dreams) that it will? Well that's impossible, I can't see into the future. I use the case of Leicester as hope. But I think we got there in the end. You don't believe we will get back to those heights, I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, BaaLocks said: Oh that made me laugh - the first three sentences read like the sketch out of Life Of Brian. This is from Forbes, who know a thing or two more than either you or me on this topic. Leicester City TEAM VALUE: £371M Calculated June 2018 REVENUE: £233M OPERATING INCOME: £88M DEBT/VALUE: 0% MATCH DAY: $29M BROADCASTING: $341M COMMERCIAL: $38M Derby County: TEAM VALUE (according to TransferMarkt): £43.65m I have no problem with you thinking 'we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen' but the facts speak loud, Derby are nowhere near the size of Leicester in pretty much any metric you want to measure. I'll sleep tonight knowing that, doesn't worry me a bit, but it is the case. Doesn't that set of stats very eloquently validate the cliff-edge between the Premier league and the EFL driven solely by broadcasting cash? Everything else drives off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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