BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 43 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Start believing then. I see what wolves have done, what Leicester have done, what Aston Villa are currently doing after beating us narrowly in the final only 2 years ago. Why can't Derby county do it? Villa and Leicester are bigger clubs with stronger infrastructures than Derby. Sorry, might not read well but it's true. As for Wolves, they've done well but I'll see that and raise you a Swansea, Cardiff, Stoke, Bolton, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Blackburn, QPR, Middlesbourough, Hull, Huddersfield or Watford. We're as good as any of those, I'm not saying we don't deserve a place in the top flight but I just think it is unlikely we could expect to stay there are an ever present. And, for all the fretting to get there - I'm personally just as happy watching us on a game by game basis, winning some and not winning others. It's the place I'm at with football.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: I would rather see a competitive Derby side a la Jim Smith give Liverpool a game rather than watch us beat Luton 2-0. Otherwise what is the point? Surely a team like Derby are on a par with Wolves, Saints and Leicester in terms of history, fan base and stadium aren’t we? I went with a Wolves fan was it 5 years ago to the 5-0 game. They were where we are now. Things can change quickly in football. Just settling for Championship football without any desire to try and get in the top division just can’t be the way forward surely..... So would I - absolutely. And if someone rolls into town with a pot of money to fund the ride count me in. Wolves are an anomaly, they happen, there's always one - few years back it was Stoke before that Wigan, some would say fifty years ago it was us. As for being on a par with them or any other of the clubs you mention, well we're at least five years behind them as it stands. I don't say I 'settle' for Championship football, I say I enjoy it and - often - enjoy it more than I would enjoy top flight football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said: This idea of there even being a top 6 is laughable for starters. Arsenal are a joke of a club, been midtable for a few years now. Tottenham have the facilities and some top players like Kane and Son but are far from elite on the pitch and never win anything. It's about finances only, what happens on the pitch isn't as important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: So would I - absolutely. And if someone rolls into town with a pot of money to fund the ride count me in. Wolves are an anomaly, they happen, there's always one - few years back it was Stoke before that Wigan, some would say fifty years ago it was us. As for being on a par with them or any other of the clubs you mention, well we're at least five years behind them as it stands. I don't say I 'settle' for Championship football, I say I enjoy it and - often - enjoy it more than I would enjoy top flight football. I don’t think it is case of being 5 years behind....it’s all about staying up in that first season. If you can then Derby would be on a par with Wolves, Saints etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, DCFClks said: It's about finances only, what happens on the pitch isn't as important obviously that's not true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 40 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Villa and Leicester are bigger clubs with stronger infrastructures than Derby. Sorry, might not read well but it's true. As for Wolves, they've done well but I'll see that and raise you a Swansea, Cardiff, Stoke, Bolton, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Blackburn, QPR, Middlesbourough, Hull, Huddersfield or Watford. We're as good as any of those, I'm not saying we don't deserve a place in the top flight but I just think it is unlikely we could expect to stay there are an ever present. And, for all the fretting to get there - I'm personally just as happy watching us on a game by game basis, winning some and not winning others. It's the place I'm at with football.. What do you mean by infrastructure and Leicester? Prem money yes, much better playing squad but all the other categories we are as big as they are...stadium, fan base, academy and training facilities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 51 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Villa and Leicester are bigger clubs with stronger infrastructures than Derby. Sorry, might not read well but it's true. Absolute rubbish. Leicester were in the championship only 7 years ago. They finished second, we finished third. Since then they have won the premier League, played in the champions League and are consistently competing with the so called 'big 6.' They have got things right, they have the owners, they have put the right people in place, their recruitment is spot on. Nothing to do with 'stronger infrastructure.' They had to work to get that strong infrastructure. There's no reason Derby can't because I tell you now, this football club is bigger than many of our fans think. Stadium, fanbase, history, academy you name it we have as good as if not better than Leicester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 People who want to see us stay in the championship are short sighted in the extreme. Look at countless examples of championship clubs going up and thriving in the division above such as Leicester and Wolves who are definitely historically no bigger than us. Who doesn't want to see us play european football and challenge the big boys of the Premier League playing attractive passing football? Getting out of this league and becoming competitive is the hurdle we've got to mount but it's not impossible in the slightest. We've become the nearly men of this division for the past decade which seems to have had a paradoxical effect of a lot of us being happy to stay down here because we win often rather than it wetting our appetite to finally break through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: People who want to see us stay in the championship are short sighted in the extreme. Look at countless examples of championship clubs going up and thriving in the division above such as Leicester and Wolves who are definitely historically no bigger than us. Who doesn't want to see us play european football and challenge the big boys of the Premier League playing attractive passing football? Getting out of this league and becoming competitive is the hurdle we've got to mount but it's not impossible in the slightest. We've become the nearly men of this division for the past decade which seems to have had a paradoxical effect of a lot of us being happy to stay down here because we win often rather than it wetting our appetite to finally break through. Yes, it has become ‘we will never be good enough’ mentality which is nonsense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Rammy03 said: Start believing then. I see what wolves have done, what Leicester have done, what Aston Villa are currently doing after beating us narrowly in the final only 2 years ago. Why can't Derby county do it? Burnley ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said: They should keep the system how it is but significantly reduce parachute payments and only provide 1 years worth. Wage caps I disagree with, players get what the market is willing to pay which in turn is tied to club revenue from TV and merchandise, sponsorship ect. But without parachute payments, clubs wouldn't be able to buy the players needed to stay up. They could only offer 1 year contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: We've become the nearly men of this division for the past decade which seems to have had a paradoxical effect of a lot of us being happy to stay down here because we win often rather than it wetting our appetite to finally break through. Spot on. I also believe a lot of fans have been scarred by the season we were last in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Tamworthram said: You can't remotely compare the creation of MLS to carving out a new Super League in England from the Premier League and EFL. The point I was trying to make is that if they were going to create such a super league with no promotion or relegation (which they won't) it wouldn't look anything like your suggestion. It would either be achieved by pruning the existing PL through relegation and limited (if any) promotion until the desired numbers were achieved or there would be a much smaller break away "elite" league that wouldn't include many of the teams you have mentioned including Derby. It definitely wouldn't be made up of teams spread over the top three divisions based on size however you measure that. Even with your rationale, history counts for nothing and would you say Wolves, West Brom and Brighton are smaller than Wednesday, Derby, Forest and Sheffield United? As I said, the subject was about removing promotion and relegation. If they were to do that I very much doubt it’d be on the basis of whose there right now, I’ve just suggested some clubs I’d imagine being in the mix for it as some of the bigger clubs in England IMO. I wouldn’t put it on history but more on attendances/facility’s/Capacities/financial capability. I guess history has created this to some extent. I said I’d like to see it with 24 teams too. I guess some people can’t have a debate, has to be your way or no way, mine was just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Absolute rubbish. Leicester were in the championship only 7 years ago. They finished second, we finished third. Since then they have won the premier League, played in the champions League and are consistently competing with the so called 'big 6.' They have got things right, they have the owners, they have put the right people in place, their recruitment is spot on. Nothing to do with 'stronger infrastructure.' They had to work to get that strong infrastructure. There's no reason Derby can't because I tell you now, this football club is bigger than many of our fans think. Stadium, fanbase, history, academy you name it we have as good as if not better than Leicester. Oh that made me laugh - the first three sentences read like the sketch out of Life Of Brian. This is from Forbes, who know a thing or two more than either you or me on this topic. Leicester City TEAM VALUE: £371M Calculated June 2018 REVENUE: £233M OPERATING INCOME: £88M DEBT/VALUE: 0% MATCH DAY: $29M BROADCASTING: $341M COMMERCIAL: $38M Derby County: TEAM VALUE (according to TransferMarkt): £43.65m I have no problem with you thinking 'we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen' but the facts speak loud, Derby are nowhere near the size of Leicester in pretty much any metric you want to measure. I'll sleep tonight knowing that, doesn't worry me a bit, but it is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Spot on. I also believe a lot of fans have been scarred by the season we were last in the premier league. Yeah, that season definitely has left a psychic scar for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Oh that made me laugh - the first three sentences read like the sketch out of Life Of Brian. This is from Forbes, who know a thing or two more than either you or me on this topic. Leicester City TEAM VALUE: £371M Calculated June 2018 REVENUE: £233M OPERATING INCOME: £88M DEBT/VALUE: 0% MATCH DAY: $29M BROADCASTING: $341M COMMERCIAL: $38M Derby County: TEAM VALUE (according to TransferMarkt): £43.65m I have no problem with you thinking 'we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen' but the facts speak loud, Derby are nowhere near the size of Leicester in pretty much any metric you want to measure. I'll sleep tonight knowing that, doesn't worry me a bit, but it is the case. No need to throw statistics around, it's stating the obvious that Leicester currently have a team of higher value and have more income. My original point was more that they were in the same position as us 7 years ago and are now competing consistently with the top clubs. There is no reason why Derby County can't do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: People who want to see us stay in the championship are short sighted in the extreme. Look at countless examples of championship clubs going up and thriving in the division above such as Leicester and Wolves who are definitely historically no bigger than us. Who doesn't want to see us play european football and challenge the big boys of the Premier League playing attractive passing football? Getting out of this league and becoming competitive is the hurdle we've got to mount but it's not impossible in the slightest. We've become the nearly men of this division for the past decade which seems to have had a paradoxical effect of a lot of us being happy to stay down here because we win often rather than it wetting our appetite to finally break through. To clarify, I'm not happy staying down - all of the above is very attractive to me. But it's not the scenario I either laid out or that I think is realistic. I simply don't get this belief that because we won the league 50 years ago somehow that means that if only we get a couple of things right it can all be again. You're right, it's not impossible but besides Wolves, Southampton, maybe Burnley, there's not a club that has managed to hang on for more than a few seasons. I'd take the ride, I'd enjoy it, but it would be an extreme long shot to turn it into anything sustainable and so - if this was a poker hand - you would be a lunatic to go all in. Some think it's our destiny, our right and all we have to do is buy a couple of strikers and the gates will open. As for Wolves, sorry but they are definitely historically a bigger club than Derby County. It's OK, again, no sleep to lose over it. Champions three times, runners up six times, FA Cup winners four times, League Cup twice, UEFA Cup Finalists, Charity Shield four times. And they won the Texaco Cup before we did..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: No need to throw statistics around, it's stating the obvious that Leicester currently have a team of higher value and have more income. My original point was more that they were in the same position as us 7 years ago and are now competing consistently with the top clubs. There is no reason why Derby County can't do the same. I said Leicester have a stronger infrastructure than Derby, you said it was absolute rubbish, I showed it wasn't, you say don't throw facts on the table. As you were..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: Spot on. I also believe a lot of fans have been scarred by the season we were last in the premier league. But I think the best way to get over that season would be to get back there and do better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 11 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: Oh that made me laugh - the first three sentences read like the sketch out of Life Of Brian. This is from Forbes, who know a thing or two more than either you or me on this topic. Leicester City TEAM VALUE: £371M Calculated June 2018 REVENUE: £233M OPERATING INCOME: £88M DEBT/VALUE: 0% MATCH DAY: $29M BROADCASTING: $341M COMMERCIAL: $38M Derby County: TEAM VALUE (according to TransferMarkt): £43.65m I have no problem with you thinking 'we're by far the greatest team the world has ever seen' but the facts speak loud, Derby are nowhere near the size of Leicester in pretty much any metric you want to measure. I'll sleep tonight knowing that, doesn't worry me a bit, but it is the case. Leicester revenue when promoted = £31m Derby revenue in 17/18 = £29.6m. Revenue now (non-covid scenario) would exceed what Leicester had when promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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