The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

I've a couple of GP friends and they've pretty much echoed the content of the two articles posted. As the other fella stated, it's a matter of choice but I do personally worry about the younger generations as it does appear they are not as bulletproof as was once thought.

Equally, some folk are more concerned about the vaccination than the virus and that's their call. I'm fine with the vaccine personally and my lad who, is at college, has also had a jab as his mum is high risk and being a good lad, he sees quite a lot of his nan too who is obviously quite old.

I'm very happy with that ?

Its all about personal risk imo.

My lads are young and fit with no health problems.  They live with their mum and I who are both the right side of 50 and healthy - and their grandparents have been jabbed and are happy to have them round for visits etc.  

You have to weigh up your risk of catching covid, then your risk of developing a bad case of covid, then any potential risks of getting the vaccine.  The jab apparently already displays a couple of unexpected characteristics and there are some albeit 'unevidenced' concerns with spike proteins the vaccine contains;

https://fullfact.org/online/conservative-woman-vaccine-scientist-spike-protein/

My lads are in such a low risk group that imho they are far better waiting for the long term data of any potential unforseen side effects re. vaccination than they are in getting the jab now.

Edited June 18, 2021 by maxjam

[Archied]

21 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

I've a couple of GP friends and they've pretty much echoed the content of the two articles posted. As the other fella stated, it's a matter of choice but I do personally worry about the younger generations as it does appear they are not as bulletproof as was once thought.

Equally, some folk are more concerned about the vaccination than the virus and that's their call. I'm fine with the vaccine personally and my lad who, is at college, has also had a jab as his mum is high risk and being a good lad, he sees quite a lot of his nan too who is obviously quite old.

I'm very happy with that ?

?, youngsters choose with no pressure 

[RoyMac5]

16 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The jab apparently already displays a couple of unexpected characteristics and there are some albeit 'unevidenced' concerns with spike proteins the vaccine contains;

https://fullfact.org/online/conservative-woman-vaccine-scientist-spike-protein/

By 'unevidenced' cases, you mean cases with no evidence? Made up? Anecdotal? Coincidental?

Edited June 18, 2021 by RoyMac5

[maxjam]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

By 'unevidenced' cases, you mean cases with no evidence? Made up? Anecdotal? Coincidental?

There was the link in the post you just quoted and the one I posted earlier in the thread;

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/16/youtube-videos/no-sign-covid-19-vaccines-spike-protein-toxic-or-c/

which included the following;

'Dr. Robert Malone, identified in the video as the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology, said he sent "manuscripts" months ago to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration claiming the spike protein posed a health risk. "And their determination was that they didn’t think that that was sufficient documentation of the risk that the spike was biologically active," he said.'

Whilst both have admittedly been knocked back, I think given that its new technology if you are are minimal risk the benefits of adopting a wait and see approach may outweigh the benefits of getting jabbed now. 

[Comrade 86]

41 minutes ago, Archied said:

?, youngsters choose with no pressure 

He's 23 and is doing a masters at King's College so he's not really a boy anymore and has always been free to make his own calls anyway. He's a smart lad and responsible too, so there's never been too much to worry about on that score. Also, his degree and masters are both in pharmacology, so he's better placed to evaluate the risks than most. His thinking was that he saw the risk as minimal but moreover, he wanted to protect his mum.  She's a fell runner and compulsive hiker and therefore fit as fook, but has quite bad asthma and is considered high risk as a consequence. Likewise his nan and elderly aunts whom he sees quite often, as they all cook a mean roast dinner! He also lives in London which would be higher risk than most regions, I'd suspect.

Whilst I don't agree with a lot of what you post, I do share your view that nobody should be forced to take the vaccine, but in all honesty, I'm quite pleased he made the choice he did. My other half is a deep water swimmer (one of these nutters who swims extreme distances) so her aerobic fitness was off the charts, but her recovery from (presumably) long Covid has been pretty arduous, though thankfully she finally seems to have taken a big step forward over the last week. I look at the year she's endured and can't help thinking that simply believing it won't affect you because of a perceived lower risk profile is a bit silly. In my experience, life doesn't fit into an Excel spreadsheet, quite the opposite.

Edited June 18, 2021 by 86 Hair Islands

[Archied]

12 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

He's 23 and is doing a masters at King's College so he's not really a boy anymore and has always been free to make his own calls anyway. He's a smart lad and responsible too, so there's never been too much to worry about on that score. Also, his degree and masters are both in pharmacology, so he's better placed to evaluate the risks than most. His thinking was that he saw the risk as minimal but moreover, he wanted to protect his mum.  She's a fell runner and compulsive hiker and therefore fit as fook, but has quite bad asthma and is considered high risk as a consequence. Likewise his nan and elderly aunts whom he sees quite often, as they all cook a mean roast dinner! He also lives in London which would be higher risk than most regions, I'd suspect.

Whilst I don't agree with a lot of what you post, I do share your view that nobody should be forced to take the vaccine, but in all honesty, I'm quite pleased he made the choice he did. My other half is a deep water swimmer (one of these nutters who swims extreme distances) so her aerobic fitness was off the charts, but her recovery from (presumably) long Covid has been pretty arduous, though thankfully she finally seems to have taken a big step forward over the last week. I look at the year she's endured and can't help thinking that simply believing it won't affect you because of a perceived lower risk profile is a bit silly. In my experience, life doesn't fit into an Excel spreadsheet, quite the opposite.

Doesn’t really matter if you agree with a lot of what I post and visa versa as people just can’t always agree on everything and as I posted the other day I’m pretty sure that most people on here would be pretty shocked to find people and their opinions are not so black and white opposed if they sat down to have a proper chat / debate over a coffee , it shocked me at first when certain people clearly saw me as right wing , borderline racist , now it just makes me chuckle as it’s miles off ,

I think your lads view is great and I respect it , as for my two I push them for and expect only that their decision be informed and thought through properly , luckily they are both fantastic kids I’m lucky to have??‍♂️

[RoyMac5]

44 minutes ago, maxjam said:

There was the link in the post you just quoted and the one I posted earlier in the thread;

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/16/youtube-videos/no-sign-covid-19-vaccines-spike-protein-toxic-or-c/

which included the following;

'Dr. Robert Malone, identified in the video as the inventor of mRNA vaccine technology, said he sent "manuscripts" months ago to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration claiming the spike protein posed a health risk. "And their determination was that they didn’t think that that was sufficient documentation of the risk that the spike was biologically active," he said.'

Whilst both have admittedly been knocked back, I think given that its new technology if you are are minimal risk the benefits of adopting a wait and see approach may outweigh the benefits of getting jabbed now. 

Yeah I skimmed the article. "However, the two different spike proteins behave very differently in the body, and so the assumption that spike proteins generated by the vaccine could also harm cells in the bloodstream is unevidenced."

Seeing as the current dominant variant is spreading more quickly than Alpha, and the young are being affected, albeit not as badly, at a greater rate than those affected by having the vaccine(s) - then I'd suggest that the odds are tipped towards getting vaccinated as better for your health.

[i-Ram]

The EU has lost a legal battle to force AstraZeneca to supply 120m vaccine doses to the European bloc this month. Not very good at commercial contracts that EU. They should have had Barnier on the job.

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, i-Ram said:

The EU has lost a legal battle to force AstraZeneca to supply 120m vaccine doses to the European bloc this month. Not very good at commercial contracts that EU. They should have had Barnier on the job.

Why do they want them, I thought they weren't keen on using them?

[Gaspode]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why do they want them, I thought they weren't keen on using them?

They don't really want them - but that's a later development based on (mainly) Macron posturing and trying to look tough against the dangerous British vaccine....The reason for the court case was that they effectively claimed it was unfair that the UK was getting more doses than they were - they tried to make it seem as if the UK was being given favourable status because the UK AZ plants were producing more vaccine than the AZ plant in Belgium - completey oblivious to the fact that the UK had put in place a  commercial agreement to buy the doses many weeks before the EU got it's act together - plus our contract had penalties for non-delivery when the EU contract didn't. It was basically pettiness and arse covering from the EU at a time when they were getting roundly criticised by EU citizens for not knowing what they were doing and delaying the vaccine rollout......

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Gaspode said:

They don't really want them - but that's a later development based on (mainly) Macron posturing and trying to look tough against the dangerous British vaccine....The reason for the court case was that they effectively claimed it was unfair that the UK was getting more doses than they were - they tried to make it seem as if the UK was being given favourable status because the UK AZ plants were producing more vaccine than the AZ plant in Belgium - completey oblivious to the fact that the UK had put in place a  commercial agreement to buy the doses many weeks before the EU got it's act together - plus our contract had penalties for non-delivery when the EU contract didn't. It was basically pettiness and arse covering from the EU at a time when they were getting roundly criticised by EU citizens for not knowing what they were doing and delaying the vaccine rollout......

It was the one time when dictatorship out-performed democracy.

?

I needed to post a 'winky' because you just know that some would have bitten.

[RoyMac5]

On 18/06/2021 at 12:41, Eddie said:

Oooohhh, conspiracy.

Better add it to the wiki page...

wiki linky listy

 

True apparently. 

Maybe the knowing the success rate of the jabs might have led to a different decision over extending lockdown?

"Hancock kept PM in dark over jabs success" Sunday Telegraph.

Or maybe not?

BBC: "Dr Susan Hopkins of Public Health England says Covid restrictions are more likely to end if 70% of adults are vaccinated by 19 July

Dr Hopkins also says she wants all over-30s double vaccinated by 19 July - currently 59% of UK adults have been double jabbed"

Edited June 20, 2021 by RoyMac5

[RoyMac5]

Or maybe we will?! ?

Beeb: "Brendan Wren, professor of vaccinology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says it is "very encouraging" that more than 700,000 vaccine appointments were booked on Friday when jabs became available to people aged 18 to 20 in England.

Asked whether the success of the vaccine programme means England will not need to wait until 19 July to fully open up, he told Sky News: "We'd still need to be vigilant - but vigilance and vaccination are the two words.

"So, I think if the numbers continue to be promising then I think there's great hope we could open up on 5 July."

Official figures show the UK has recorded more than 10,000 daily Covid cases for three consecutive days.

But Prof Wren says the rise in cases seem to be "flattening off" and the number of people in hospital with coronavirus and "certainly the severe cases" have "not crept up in line" with the number of infections."

[Eddie]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Or maybe we will?! ?

Beeb: "Brendan Wren, professor of vaccinology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, says it is "very encouraging" that more than 700,000 vaccine appointments were booked on Friday when jabs became available to people aged 18 to 20 in England.

Asked whether the success of the vaccine programme means England will not need to wait until 19 July to fully open up, he told Sky News: "We'd still need to be vigilant - but vigilance and vaccination are the two words.

"So, I think if the numbers continue to be promising then I think there's great hope we could open up on 5 July."

Official figures show the UK has recorded more than 10,000 daily Covid cases for three consecutive days.

But Prof Wren says the rise in cases seem to be "flattening off" and the number of people in hospital with coronavirus and "certainly the severe cases" have "not crept up in line" with the number of infections."

Stick, meet carrot.

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Stick, meet carrot.

Are these menu choices at a restaurant for Vegan, Carnivore and Vegetarian diners?

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Are these menu choices at a restaurant for Vegan, Carnivore and Vegetarian diners?

Definitely carnivore.

Cinnamon stick + julienne carrot + chestnut mushrooms + onions + garlic + beef cubes + brown sugar + syrop de liege + dijon mustard + 2 slices of bread + beef stock + bouquet garni + nutmeg + 75 cl of Belgian Dubbel + 5 hours cooking = the best Flemish stew you ever tasted.

I just missed off the last 12 ingredients. Sorry. Wasn't it obvious?

[G STAR RAM]

I see the seeds are already being sewn for more restrictions this winter.

Apparently we are in for a rough winter and the NHS could be under immense pressure, not sure why when these restrictions lockdowns were under the headline of protecting the NHS and saving lives. 

Appears that now they could put the NHS under pressure going forward and cost lives.

Also why is BJ on about foreign holidays being unlikely, I thought step 4 was the lifting of all remaining restrictions? Looks like they are trying to sneak in a step 3.5 while nobody is looking. 

Had the news today that my daughters induction day at senior school cannot go ahead because of Covid restrictions, gutted for her. We really are ruining kids lives. 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Had the news today that my daughters induction day at senior school cannot go ahead because of Covid restrictions, gutted for her. We really are ruining kids lives. 

Bad news indeed. Enough of us are vaccinated now for all restrictions to be lifted. No sign of the NHS being overwhelmed.

[Van der MoodHoover]

In persuading junior VdM to apply for university, the one he wanted could not commit to face to face tuition. He's therefore deferring for a year as he's already had his 2 year technical diploma in marine and aquatics materially impacted. 

It is having real impacts on our young people. 

I'm only observing and not making comment on the merits or otherwise of the various rules. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Bad news indeed. Enough of us are vaccinated now for all restrictions to be lifted. No sign of the NHS being overwhelmed.

Johnson blabbering on about infection rates and ICU beds.

I just checked and there are currently 223 of the 30,000 available ventilators being used.

Assuming roughly a 2 week lag, we were at 5000 cases per day on 5th June, which has led to 223 people being on ventilators today. 

Surely you dont have to be some sort of mathematical genius to work out that there is absolutely no chance of the NHS becoming overwhelmed again?