The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, jimmyp said:

Shambles!

What leadership! Imagine the hapless ministers who were sent on tv this morning to explain why they weren't gonna have to self isolate!

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

This was the best bit:

"It was on 1 April of this year that ministers first learned that the Delta variant of coronavirus, which originated in India, had been discovered in the UK. The presence of a strain feared to be more transmissible than others was an obvious and immediate threat. Scientists had long warned that the greatest obstacle to full unlocking was the import of new variants from abroad. But it was not until 19 April that the government announced India would be added to the UK’s “red list” of countries – from which travel is strictly controlled – and not until 23 April that this decision was implemented (searches for flights to Britain from India rose by 250 per cent in the intervening period). 

The Delta variant has since become the dominant strain in the UK, accounting for up to 75 per cent of new Covid cases, and the government’s laxness helped fuel its spread. Between 4 April and 2 May, the variant rose from 4.9 per cent of all cases detected among travellers to 40.9 per cent."

Right, a few questions or remarks on this point:-

The Government have said they followed the guidance of the scientists on this, has this ever been disputed by the scientists?

I assume a large number of people coming in from India would have been British citizens returning before the border was closed, what would you have done with these people?

Isolating rules were in place after returning from abroad, how has the virus spread if the people returning from India followed the rules and isolated?

Just heard a report on tv stating that the vaccine uptake is much lower in ethnic minorities (apparently 50% of residents in Nornmanton are not vaccinated), what part has this played in the spread and is this the Government being reckless or British citizens being reckless?

[ariotofmyown]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Government have said they followed the guidance of the scientists on this, has this ever been disputed by the scientists?

This is an interesting read and doesn't seem like the government are being particular open and transparent https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57172793

Apart from the hidden stats, this article doesn't question the number of travellers arriving in a country. If twice as many people arrive from country A than B, but country B has twice the rate of infection, then the same number of infections are arriving. India has a population about 4-5 times larger than India, and I think it's a fair assumption that the number of arrivals was of a similar ratio.

21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I assume a large number of people coming in from India would have been British citizens returning before the border was closed, what would you have done with these people?

I would have done the same as what British citizens returning from Pakistan and Bangladesh had to do.

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Isolating rules were in place after returning from abroad, how has the virus spread if the people returning from India followed the rules and isolated?

Well, there must be a reason why the government distinguishes between Red and Amber list countries. Your question here is really "why are the government bothering with a Red list at all"? I assume it's because Red list arrivals are transported to secure hotels, whereas Amber list people are free to travel on public transport, then mix with other people in their household who may not have travelled.

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just heard a report on tv stating that the vaccine uptake is much lower in ethnic minorities (apparently 50% of residents in Nornmanton are not vaccinated), what part has this played in the spread and is this the Government being reckless or British citizens being reckless?

This is another point entirely and has little bearing on people arriving in April when most people in the UK were yet to be vaccinated. I'm not sure it's helpful to possibly blame people who were allowed to avoid Red list conditions. 

This India decision seems like a strange thing to defend so robustly. It was obviously a really bad decision. With Johnson's planned trip to India there too, it's a real stretch to not see this as a reckless political decision. Don't worry, someone will leak the truth behind it soon and we'll then know 100%.

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

This is an interesting read and doesn't seem like the government are being particular open and transparent https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57172793

Apart from the hidden stats, this article doesn't question the number of travellers arriving in a country. If twice as many people arrive from country A than B, but country B has twice the rate of infection, then the same number of infections are arriving. India has a population about 4-5 times larger than India, and I think it's a fair assumption that the number of arrivals was of a similar ratio.

I would have done the same as what British citizens returning from Pakistan and Bangladesh had to do.

Well, there must be a reason why the government distinguishes between Red and Amber list countries. Your question here is really "why are the government bothering with a Red list at all"? I assume it's because Red list arrivals are transported to secure hotels, whereas Amber list people are free to travel on public transport, then mix with other people in their household who may not have travelled.

This is another point entirely and has little bearing on people arriving in April when most people in the UK were yet to be vaccinated. I'm not sure it's helpful to possibly blame people who were allowed to avoid Red list conditions. 

This India decision seems like a strange thing to defend so robustly. It was obviously a really bad decision. With Johnson's planned trip to India there too, it's a real stretch to not see this as a reckless political decision. Don't worry, someone will leak the truth behind it soon and we'll then know 100%.

I dont think Ive defended it? Ive asked questions which I think are important to understanding whether it is the reckless decision that you are calling it.

You seem to think its just a black and white issue of we should have just stopped people coming in from India by the sounds of it, I would be vehemently opposed to ever stop British citizens entering the country.

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont think Ive defended it? Ive asked questions which I think are important to understanding whether it is the reckless decision that you are calling it.

You seem to think its just a black and white issue of we should have just stopped people coming in from India by the sounds of it, I would be vehemently opposed to ever stop British citizens entering the country.

We put Pakistan and Bangladesh on the Red List. So you are saying that was a mistake and we should have no Red list countries then?

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

We put Pakistan and Bangladesh on the Red List. So you are saying that was a mistake and we should have no Red list countries then?

I dont agree with the red list country thing.

I'd need to know what indicators were being used and compare the relevant countries to know if it was a mistake or not. 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont agree with the red list country thing.

I'd need to know what indicators were being used and compare the relevant countries to know if it was a mistake or not. 

That is what the bbc article I posted is trying to do. Unfortunately, the government won't publish the figures in question. I wonder why?

[Archied]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

We've already got a 2-tier society.

Those who care about others and those who don't.

 

Nope ,

3 tier 

Your missing out the hypocrites,,, wonder why?

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Arent the Government supposed to represent the people that elected them?

If it is clear they are doing something that the electorate do not want them to do, is it not right that they should review their decisions?

This government represent their backers, paymasters, cronies and Eton old boys.

Luckily for them, that's a single circle on the Venn diagram.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Told you ???

I'm still trying to work out which chuckle brother is which.

[G STAR RAM]

34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I'm still trying to work out which chuckle brother is which.

You'll work it out when the beer wears of Im sure

[G STAR RAM]

48 minutes ago, Eddie said:

This government represent their backers, paymasters, cronies and Eton old boys.

Luckily for them, that's a single circle on the Venn diagram.

How do you reconcile this with them having pretty much closing down the economy for 6 months?

[Archied]

42 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I'm still trying to work out which chuckle brother is which.

Strangely I’m im finding where’s Wally quite easy??‍♂️

[G STAR RAM]

43 minutes ago, Eddie said:

This is obviously aimed at me, but please explain to me again just why you think that I am a hypocrite. You tried once before, and the only substance in your quaintly ridiculous argument that I could glean, amongst your usual bile, was that I had a shipment of 40 bottles of beer imported from Belgium and you felt that was a dangerous thing to do under the circumstances.

 

I obviously dont speak on behalf of the other poster but doubt it is just aimed at you.

Probably aimed at anyone who sits their lambasting people for doing what they think is best for themselves and their families, whilst doing exactly the same thing but from a position of more privilege. 

I think there are plenty out there that have had to carry on as normal in terms of work, throughout, only to be told that it is not ok to carry on as normal outside of the work setting. 

On the other hand there are the people who have been able to work from home or had their lives funded by the taxpayer for 16 months who sit there sneering and sniping at thw others who just want to be able to go about their daily business as they see fit.

[Archied]

There are those who care about others and those who don’t 

just for starters

I know someone in particular who banged on and on that because they had to shield ( being vulnerable ) EVERYONE else should be locked down too , lose jobs , lose business s, lose homes ect ect ect ,,,, as it was unfair

there ARE lots of selfless people about but in my experience people have tell them how selfless they are rather than them telling everyone else how selfless they are ??????

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Archied

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

There are those who care about others and those who don’t 

just for starters

I know someone in particular who banged on and on that because they had to shield ( being vulnerable ) EVERYONE else should be locked down too , lose jobs , lose business s, lose homes ect ect ect ,,,, as it was unfair

there ARE lots of selfless people about but in my experience people have tell them how selfless they are rather than them telling everyone else how selfless they are ??????

 

Thats simply not true, the poster didnt want the people delivering his beer in lockdown.

[Leeds Ram]

Given that covid isn't going anywhere the answer is to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible. Currently we've got 2/3rds of the over 18's double jabbed and I believe hovering at 91% for single jabbed we're doing a good job and should be looking at mass school vaccination programmes too.  Maybe we are opening up a little too soon but currently this state of affairs is doing nothing to stop the spread anyway so we might as well fully open up and get it out of the way now than face a potential winter crisis. 

Covid in the long run will be an endemic like influenza is and we need to be approaching a state of affairs that treats it like that. If you get pinged but if you test negative in my book that shouldn't mean isolation. Perpetual lockdowns are not the answer; they're economically devastating, socially destructive and awful for the overall health of the country. You cannot de-link the economy or social welfare from health as people who are pro lockdown are doing.  They should only be considered as a last resort when there is realistic evidence hospitals are going to be overwhelmed which they aren't likely to be because of the vaccines. 

 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

Given that covid isn't going anywhere the answer is to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible. Currently we've got 2/3rds of the over 18's double jabbed and I believe hovering at 91% for single jabbed we're doing a good job and should be looking at mass school vaccination programmes too.  Maybe we are opening up a little too soon but currently this state of affairs is doing nothing to stop the spread anyway so we might as well fully open up and get it out of the way now than face a potential winter crisis. 

Covid in the long run will be an endemic like influenza is and we need to be approaching a state of affairs that treats it like that. If you get pinged but if you test negative in my book that shouldn't mean isolation. Perpetual lockdowns are not the answer; they're economically devastating, socially destructive and awful for the overall health of the country. You cannot de-link the economy or social welfare from health as people who are pro lockdown are doing.  They should only be considered as a last resort when there is realistic evidence hospitals are going to be overwhelmed which they aren't likely to be because of the vaccines. 

 

Agree with most but not mass school vaccination s, in the words of pink floyd , leave our kids alone??‍♂️
it’s becoming clear that double jabbed people are still testing positive for covid 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Archied

[Archied]

6 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

Given that covid isn't going anywhere the answer is to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible. Currently we've got 2/3rds of the over 18's double jabbed and I believe hovering at 91% for single jabbed we're doing a good job and should be looking at mass school vaccination programmes too.  Maybe we are opening up a little too soon but currently this state of affairs is doing nothing to stop the spread anyway so we might as well fully open up and get it out of the way now than face a potential winter crisis. 

Covid in the long run will be an endemic like influenza is and we need to be approaching a state of affairs that treats it like that. If you get pinged but if you test negative in my book that shouldn't mean isolation. Perpetual lockdowns are not the answer; they're economically devastating, socially destructive and awful for the overall health of the country. You cannot de-link the economy or social welfare from health as people who are pro lockdown are doing.  They should only be considered as a last resort when there is realistic evidence hospitals are going to be overwhelmed which they aren't likely to be because of the vaccines. 

 

Covid has an economy all of its own , jabs , masks, tests ect ect and there’s plenty of people in position of power and influence who will go all out to protect that , vaccinate the children , vaccinate the world ( every man woman child) , boosters every six months ,,, a captive economy ,,,

the money needed to be spent in the right way boosting nhs and hospitals to cope is a drop in the ocean comparatively 

[Wolfie]

What I can't get my head around, about the Boris & Rishi not isolating thing is who the hell ever thought that it was a good idea and the right thing to do, with businesses suffering because of all the people being pinged?. A staggering lack of awareness and basic common sense from the top.

From both sides, actually...

Jonathan Ashworth (Shadow health) on 5Live this morning (and other places yesterday) banging on about installing air purifiers in all schools during the shool holidays - hadn't even done basic reserach on whether it might be feasible, with the number required/supply/installation engineers etc.

This is really basic stuff. Can we have some competent people in charge some time soon please?