The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

So it’s the same cover , boris answer booster roll out numbers will tub thump cover the shamble’s, are people getting a booster jab because they need it or because boris needs it?‍♂️
Commons question time is a joke

Edited December 15, 2021 by Archied

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

And what has that got to do with vaccine passports?

Do you have to carry round a card saying that you wear a seatbelt?

Your argument 

 

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

And what has that got to do with vaccine passports?

Do you have to carry round a card saying that you wear a seatbelt?

I was responding to your comment

” I'm saying the vaccine passports make no sense because even if you're vaccinated you can still carry and pass on the virus.”

so just because vaccines do not eliminate the risk of carrying it or passing on the virus does not mean that you should not be vaccinated. 

just as the fact that wearing a seatbelt does not eliminate the risks completely you should still wear one and in fact it is against the law not to.
 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

Your argument 

 

I was responding to your comment

” I'm saying the vaccine passports make no sense because even if you're vaccinated you can still carry and pass on the virus.”

so just because vaccines do not eliminate the risk of carrying it or passing on the virus does not mean that you should not be vaccinated. 

just as the fact that wearing a seatbelt does not eliminate the risks completely you should still wear one and in fact it is against the law not to.
 

So what is the point of vaccine passports?

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I still have a tendency to follow US news first and the AMA have said 97% of physicians are fully vaccinated. 

I'd be stunned if the figure in the UK is dramatically lower. Feel free to point me to updated stats because I could be wrong. 

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/what-the-bma-is-doing/covid-19-analysing-the-impact-of-coronavirus-on-doctors

[Wolfie]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I also know of 2 people that died after having the vaccine, although admittedly friends of colleagues so cannot verify this.

Both under 40. One died from a blood clot, the other from a heart attack.

I'm not sure people not wanting the vaccine is anything to do with 'growing up'.

No but it might have something to do with reading and absorbing things like your first sentence. Taking hearsay as fact based on causality rather than correlation.

This from someone who likes to insist on evidence from everyone else.

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

No but it might have something to do with reading and absorbing things like your first sentence. Taking hearsay as fact based on causality rather than correlation.

This from someone who likes to insist on evidence from everyone else.

Where have I taken it as fact? I said it was friends of a colleague and I am unable to verify.

Likewise I am being urged to get a booster jab based on completely unsubstantiated 'facts'.

 

[Bob The Badger]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

It was you that made the claim that:-

'Yet doctors are still overwhelmingly in favour of getting it for themselves and giving it to their families.'

So I would assume you already have the facts to back this up?

FWIW I could not find any stats at all about doctors in favour of giving it to their families but will obviously accept it when you provide the evidence. 

Well, as you know I lived in the US for a long time and as I said, I do still tend to follow US news. I should have checked because I'm wrong with doctors, it's over 96% fully vaccinated, not 97% as I outrageously and shockingly claimed.

I take your point as you slide the goalposts to one side and ask about their families though, because that is very much a supposition and based on common sense and my own anecdotal evidence. Which I hasten to add, is not scientifically valid, but can have value.

Ok @Norman? ?

Seeing as there is no legal requirement in the US (at least that I have heard) it would be extremely weird for a doctor to get a vaccine (presumably because they thought it worked) and not suggest their family have it too. Dontchya think? 

That would be like putting your seat belt on and not suggesting your family bother with theirs.

Or you cut out sugar and high fat fpr health reasons foods whilst giving it to your loved ones.

Time to pay Mr Google a visit.

Well look at that, a 2.7 second search suggests that, according to the BMJ,  about 5 weeks ago over 90% of NHS Trust staff were fully vaccinated and 93% had at least one vaccination.

I'm not saying that's overwhelming, but ya know, it kinda is.

Maybe techs and nurses are really high and doctors lower? Seems on the scale between highly implausible and ludicrous, but who knows? 

Plus, it that doesn't fit with NHS being frustrated at lower level staff refusing to get vaccinated.

It's such a conundrum G Star, it really is.

 

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/what-the-bma-is-doing/covid-19-analysing-the-impact-of-coronavirus-on-doctors

Dude, that report was from this week but the stats are from March.

I'd ask the admins to delete that for you if I were you.

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

I would imagine

There's a lot of that going on.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Dont forget the 98% is based on the official figures and we are not being told by all and sundry that the official figures are way lower than the actual figures. 

This is not really a counter-argument to your post, @G STAR RAM - just putting it here in context

Excess deaths based on annual averages since the start of the pandemic are 146539.

Deaths within 28 days of a positive test since the start of the pandemic are 146627.

That's a difference of just 88, or 0.06% of the total.

Short of somebody manipulating the actual number of deaths since the start of the pandemic, either the actual deaths figure is reliable, or we have had almost two years of unusual mortality due to some other, as yet unknown or unspecified phenomenon.

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Dude, that report was from this week but the stats are from March.

I'd ask the admins to delete that for you if I were you.

Why?  The MSM keep telling us that 90% of people in ICU beds are unvaccinated.  They don't mind using out-of-date data from June!

 

7 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Well look at that, a 2.7 second search suggests that, according to the BMJ,  about 5 weeks ago over 90% of NHS Trust staff were fully vaccinated and 93% had at least one vaccination.

The problem with that argument is that the NHS employs approx 1.3m and is already understaffed.  A 7% reduction in staff would be catastrophic at a time when there are already massive backlogs.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/26/nhs-staffing-crisis-killing-people-sajid-javid

[PistoldPete]

29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So what is the point of vaccine passports?

I think the point of COVID passports is to encourage people not to spread the virus at crowded venues, and to take measures to prevent that .. either by staying away, getting vaccinated or taking a test. 
 

To be honest I would have thought that was obvious , but it seems not to everybody.

[Wolfie]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Where have I taken it as fact? I said it was friends of a colleague and I am unable to verify.

 

Yes. And then you used that as justification for why people might not want the jab.

[G STAR RAM]

16 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Dude, that report was from this week but the stats are from March.

I'd ask the admins to delete that for you if I were you.

Why would you ask the admins to delete, I have no problem with standing corrected.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Yes. And then you used that as justification for why people might not want the jab.

Well if people know someone that has died after having the vaccine then, yes, I'd suggest it may be a reason why they may not want to get the vaccine.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think the point of COVID passports is to encourage people not to spread the virus at crowded venues, and to take measures to prevent that .. either by staying away, getting vaccinated or taking a test. 
 

To be honest I would have thought that was obvious , but it seems not to everybody.

So I turn up at an event with a vaccine passport, yet I still have the virus and can still pass it on, not sure how you think that stops the virus from spreading?

If the vaccine does not stop you from catching the virus, nor from passing it on, then vaccine passports simply cannot do anything to stop the spread, to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody

[Wolfie]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So I turn up at an event with a vaccine passport, yet I still have the virus and can still pass it on, not sure how you think that stops the virus from spreading?

If the vaccine does not stop you from catching the virus, nor from passing it on, then vaccine passports simply cannot do anything to stop the spread, to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody

By reducing the chance of catching it & spreading it. Nobody is claiming it stops it spreading completely but reducing the spread is good, no?

to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody ?

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So I turn up at an event with a vaccine passport, yet I still have the virus and can still pass it on, not sure how you think that stops the virus from spreading?

If the vaccine does not stop you from catching the virus, nor from passing it on, then vaccine passports simply cannot do anything to stop the spread, to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody

What you say in bold is undeniably true - but not only that, there is no technology that tells the passport checker that the passport belongs to the person presenting it. So also pointless logistically, not just medically

What's obvious is that the vaccines passport issue is purely being used to drive vaccine uptake. I assume they are trying to get those people who were waivering but now after a year of millions being vaccinated worldwide and no major issues identified might just bite the bullet for an easier life? The hardcore pitchfork people are only going to dig in deeper

 

 

[PistoldPete]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So I turn up at an event with a vaccine passport, yet I still have the virus and can still pass it on, not sure how you think that stops the virus from spreading?

If the vaccine does not stop you from catching the virus, nor from passing it on, then vaccine passports simply cannot do anything to stop the spread, to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody

Sorry I realise the term  “stop the spread” is ambiguous . Maybe I should say “reduce the spread “ to avoid misinterpretation, but I have already said it’s about risk reduction not risk elimination . 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

By reducing the chance of catching it & spreading it. Nobody is claiming it stops it spreading completely but reducing the spread is good, no?

to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody ?

So I turn up to an event with a Covid passport and because the vaccine has reduced my chance of catching it, that will stop me from spreading it?

Reducing the spread of it is good, but we know it can be asymptomatic so a vaccine passport WILL NOT stop you from spreading it and is therefore completely pointless.