Mel Morris - The Good, The Bad and The Boycie

[Mihangel]

3 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

Is your glass half full or is it half empty are you one of life eternal optimist or a gloom pessimist.

Life and all its its different aspects dependent upon YOU as person and how you approach them. 

Anyone can make out an argument for anything just take Hitler,Stalin and the like.

Eh?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

12 hours ago, Derby blood said:

Mel will be judged on where he took us to, 4th bottom at the mo, would not pay the players on time, did not communicate with the fans, Pearson came on radio Derby telling porkies all the time, when Mel took us over we had reached the play offs against QPR, we had some top talent, Mel then spent 6 years sacking managers falling out with them, trying to take everyone to court, and up setting managers by going into the changing room, so for me Mel has not done a good job, let's just hope we still have a club next season with the way he has handled everything in recent times. 

If I was a multi millionaire I owned the club I had supported all my life there is no way I would duck it up like this. 

Very OTT. If we had been promoted at Wembley, these thoughts wouldn't really exist. Fine margins. Mel Morris has constantly communicated with fans apart from the takeover saga, but if there are NDA's signed, he can't say much. There is a rumour he is unwell, hopefully not true, which would make a lack of communication more understandable. Don't agree with all the sackings etc and the meddling in team affairs, which I think is largely true, a few years back maybe although I don't have any knowledge of recent times. But the last sentence - would you have done a better job? Do you have business experience? Would you know how to run a football club. Hindsight is wonderful. There have been successes in the last few years under Mel's tenure. Let's not forget that- mainly, youngsters coming through, more than at any time I can remember. Football is a risky business and the EFL charges and financial issues are not good but chairmen who spend no money get so much flak and the goal is to be promoted- almost impossible without investment. We have constantly been around the playoffs and our gamble hasn't paid off. Also, COVID situation has to be a factor. Derby were losing a huge sum a month a few years back even.

[BIllyD]

13 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Or... the number of times we were within 90-270 minutes of promotion to the Premier League, compared to the number of times we were in that position in the 6 years prior to Mel? @Derby blood

Not sure I get that one. They both equate to exactly the same thing. The previous 6 years I would say had left us in a very good position to challenge for promotion the following year and possibly ones to follow after that.

By your logic if a new owner comes in tomorrow and we get automatic promotion, it's shows Mels tenure as being completely rubbish ?

[Carnero]

8 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

By your logic if a new owner comes in tomorrow and we get automatic promotion, it's shows Mels tenure as being completely rubbish ?

No, it doesn't. Mel can't control what happens in a one-off football match but made the funds available to have a shot at the jackpot 4 times in 6 seasons, 5 out of 6 really including the 2014-15 collapse.

Your logic is nonsense, not mine ?

[GboroRam]

21 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

Eh?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 hour ago, BIllyD said:

The academy is an interesting debating point. Fortunately due to my son, we are lucky enough to benefit from the facilities and set up in place, I have to say it's fantastic, a credit to the club.

However, do the benefits we see from the day we took, outweigh the costs involved. I'm not talking about the money to set up really, because I'm presuming that's Mel investment and we don't owe him anything on the back of that. 

The fantastic set up no doubts attracts players that probably wouldn't have considered us previously, cat 1 gives us certain benefits, most clubs would be envious of the set up, we appear to have an abundance of youth players coming through. 
 

On the flip side, would players like Sibley, Knight etc...been at the club anyway ? I don't believe the radius or number of players for each age group increases with a cat 1. We have seen two players leave recently that we don't appear to have been able to do anything about. How much does it cost to run ?

Not a debate on where the academy is now to where it was really, the set up speaks for itself, more around how much more beneficial is it compared to lesser facilities that wouldn't cost as much to run.

I guess if we attract better youngsters, we are more able to use them in first team squads eventually like now if we have to cut down on transfers in. Talented young players may choose other midlands clubs if our set up was not as strong and we are in a saturated area clubs wise I guess. 

Also, we have sold some young players for higher fees in the last few years which surely would justify the investment? 

[BIllyD]

5 minutes ago, Carnero said:

No, it doesn't. Mel can't control what happens in a one-off football match but made the funds available to have a shot at the jackpot 4 times in 6 seasons, 5 out of 6 really including the 2014-15 collapse.

Your logic is nonsense, not mine ?

I mentioned it yesterday, Maxwell got us into our highest position since we won the title, into a European place that we were cruelly robbed of.

So by your logic once again, he has been our best chairman since the championship days based on where we finished that season ?

[De22Ram]

Ive never really been sure on mel morris! When he came and took over from the americans, they had the finances under control and the club was stable! Mel came in, i was happy a Derby lad was coming in but started getting worried when he spunked a load of cash on midfielders we didnt need, butterfield, johnson etc and getting involved in the changing room! I thought the photos he did when he first came in looked a bit odd, didnt really sit right! I mean fair enough though, he wanted to try and spend to get us promoted and hes invested in the academy and facilities etc, plus he was new and learning on the job, clearly a succsesful bussiness man so......... Fingers crossed! 
 

Clever getting Lampard in, rooney! Good at getting publicity etc, we was on sky every weekend pretty much at onw point! 
 

then alarm bells started ringing, the stadium being sold, players going and not being replaced, the finances and where we are today! 
 

so wasnt convinced, got a little more convinced but now im back to the start! Are we in a better position than when he took over? Probably not! It has been a fun few seasons tho, ill give him thst! Beating leeds in the play offs ill never forget! And i love a day out at wembley, win or lose! 
 

so thought id throw in my pennys worth for the sake of it lol!! Up the rams!!!!

 

[BIllyD]

Just now, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

I guess if we attract better youngsters, we are more able to use them in first team squads eventually like now if we have to cut down on transfers in. Talented young players may choose other midlands clubs if our set up was not as strong and we are in a saturated area clubs wise I guess. 

Also, we have sold some young players for higher fees in the last few years which surely would justify the investment? 

Quite possibly, I suppose the question is though would those players have been at the club anyway. I know my lad joined at 6, so of the current bunch and the ones that have been sold, would they have been with the club anyway ? 
 

On the other hand, like you say, you have an academy like ours, one like the foxes and one like the red dogs in the same area. If we hadn't invested, then would we be as attractive, I doubt it.

I suppose it may be after Mels tenure we fully reap the benefits.

[Tyler Durden]

When people start referencing examples to 20th century dictators and not even mention Pol Pot then the whole thread kinda starts losing its credibility

[Carnero]

14 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So by your logic once again, he has been our best chairman since the championship days based on where we finished that season ?

The point of football is to win matches. The point of a good owner is to make the funds available for a manager to build a team to win as many matches as possible.

[BIllyD]

Just now, Carnero said:

Yes, the point of football is to win matches. The point of a good owner is to make the funds available for a manager to build a team to win as many matches as possible.

I was talking about maxwell.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

5 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Quite possibly, I suppose the question is though would those players have been at the club anyway. I know my lad joined at 6, so of the current bunch and the ones that have been sold, would they have been with the club anyway ? 
 

On the other hand, like you say, you have an academy like ours, one like the foxes and one like the red dogs in the same area. If we hadn't invested, then would we be as attractive, I doubt it.

I suppose it may be after Mels tenure we fully reap the benefits.

I guess it's hard to measure although maybe if we compare transfer fees gained in recent years from academy players or players in our first team squad/ minutes played compared to a few seasons ago, it could give an indication of where we are. I heard one of the reasons Southampton have had such an amazing record of development is their large catchment area (seems plausible) so I guess teams in areas like the midlands are in a more fierce competition to attract young players.

[Carnero]

Just now, BIllyD said:

I was talking about maxwell.

Yeah I spotted that after replying, so took out the "Yes"(!) ?

[BIllyD]

Just now, Carnero said:

Yeah I spotted that after replying, so took out the "Yes"(!) ?

? I did guess that to be fair.

Anyway we going in circles so I think best we agree to disagree ?

[Philmycock]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

When people start referencing examples to 20th century dictators and not even mention Pol Pot then the whole thread kinda starts losing its credibility

Interestingly, that's an anagram of "to plop"?, who knew?

[BIllyD]

3 minutes ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

I guess it's hard to measure although maybe if we compare transfer fees gained in recent years from academy players or players in our first team squad/ minutes played compared to a few seasons ago, it could give an indication of where we are. I heard one of the reasons Southampton have had such an amazing record of development is their large catchment area (seems plausible) so I guess teams in areas like the midlands are in a more fierce competition to attract young players.

It could be a good comparison, but then it could be countered with maybe that's why we are down towards the bottom than the top. Having said that, bringing in players costs money, a lot more than academy ones both in transfers and I guess wages. So a good point.
 

I think your right about Southampton, where we are located is in the catchment area of so many clubs.

[Tyler Durden]

Just to add my tuppenth worth compare and contrast with Thatcher's victory in the 1983 election. During her tenure leading up the election she was getting battered in the polls, facing mutiny in her own party, oversaw huge rises in unemployment during a recession yet won a landslide result following our victory in the Falklands War. 

So essentially her tenure was not judged as a whole across the entire span but as a snapshot at the end of her duration as Prime Minister, in this instance favourably. Human nature influenced this massively.

How many people have been guilty as managers of applying short term events in staff appraisals for example, someone makes a cluck up a few weeks before the appraisal and the previous years good work gets cast into the shadows. Again human nature.

Unfortunately you can bang on about the merits and demerits of Morris' reign but simplistically as illustrated above people rightly or wrongly will make up their own minds based on short termism against recent events at the end of his tenure here. 

[cannable]

2 hours ago, Theres’s Only Wan Chope said:

I guess if we attract better youngsters, we are more able to use them in first team squads eventually like now if we have to cut down on transfers in. Talented young players may choose other midlands clubs if our set up was not as strong and we are in a saturated area clubs wise I guess. 

Also, we have sold some young players for higher fees in the last few years which surely would justify the investment? 

I think their point was, won’t they absolute cream of the crop get picked off easily? We’re going to have lost Delap and Gordon and there’s nothing we can do about it and for a fee that would be tenfold in a couple of years. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, De22Ram said:

Ive never really been sure on mel morris! When he came and took over from the americans, they had the finances under control and the club was stable! 

Could you define what you mean by 'had the finances under control and the club was stable'?

From memory, we were losing £9m per year and GSE had made it clear that they no longer wished to finance these losses.

We were at the point of having a bottom 6 wage bill and seemed to have a circa £1m cap on transfer fees.

We had a £15m mortgage on the ground that I believe was to be repaid within 3 years.

We had loans secured against future years season ticket sales.