New Manager

[DcfcMatt]

Steve McClaren on Sky Sports news talking about football in general. I have no doubt that he would get this set of players playing attractive attacking football, and it wouldn't take him long. His impact in both his previous stints at the club was immediate.

[Brammie Steve]

Tommy Docherty?

Colin Murphy?

Nigel Pearson?

 

Brian Clough!

Jim Smith!

Arthur Cox!

 

And countless others somewhere in between.

Not easy choosing a manager is it?

Just be careful what we wish for!

 

I wasn't aware that Philip Cocu had gone but, should this happen McClaren mk iii would at least be a safe bet!

[nottingram]

32 minutes ago, Andicis said:

He did build that Wigan squad without spending too much money to be fair to him, and they also were better than us in the second half of the season, maybe you can argue he underperformed in the first half, or it just really clicked in the second so if they had the chance to stay up he would have had a good year there this season. 

It might not be a guaranteed improvement, but we do need to change course in my opinion. We're sinking fast. 

I’ve just looked, I don’t really know how accurate Transfermarkt is but he spent more than I had thought, around £7m in the summer pre 19/20 and £5m pre 18/19. Some of it good, some of it tat and not really offset by many sales. For every Kieffer Moore there’s a Joe Garner!

I dunno, I just think they were probably having these conversations amongst the three of them on Wigan’s forum this time last year. They’d made a shocking start, turned it around and now people want him to replace the man who’s had a shocking start to the season here. Just seems a strange cycle. 

Ultimately I think whoever is manager is going to need some time, and I don’t yet feel we’re in a situation that can’t be salvaged by Cocu. I can see green shoots but I can accept and understand that they’re not exactly obvious. 

 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

I’ve just looked, I don’t really know how accurate Transfermarkt is but he spent more than I had thought, around £7m in the summer pre 19/20 and £5m pre 18/19. Some of it good, some of it tat and not really offset by many sales. For every Kieffer Moore there’s a Joe Garner!

I dunno, I just think they were probably having these conversations amongst the three of them on Wigan’s forum this time last year. They’d made a shocking start, turned it around and now people want him to replace the man who’s had a shocking start to the season here. Just seems a strange cycle. 

Ultimately I think whoever is manager is going to need some time, and I don’t yet feel we’re in a situation that can’t be salvaged by Cocu. I can see green shoots but I can accept and understand that they’re not exactly obvious. 

 

Wigan have been fluctuating between League 1 and low end Champ for a while though, so it's not unfeasible they would be in that position. I see your point though.

I honestly don't see green shoots at all. Where are they? I don't think we have a coherent style, I don't think our players are improving with coaching, I don't see where our goals are coming from and we're not great defensively. I see a team devoid of direction that is going backwards. 

[jcidaho]

Curtis for manager

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Wigan have been fluctuating between League 1 and low end Champ for a while though, so it's not unfeasible they would be in that position. I see your point though.

I honestly don't see green shoots at all. Where are they? I don't think we have a coherent style, I don't think our players are improving with coaching, I don't see where our goals are coming from and we're not great defensively. I see a team devoid of direction that is going backwards. 

We’ve clearly tightened up hugely, giving barely any chances away but that has come at the expense of attacking output. I think yesterday was a bit of Cocu’s entire tenure in microcosm - was quite pretty for the most part, especially first half with a really good aggressive press but lacking in that final ball. When we found an excellent final ball, the linesman rules out probably a 9/10 chance at a goal for an offside that was three yards onside. Then we lose momentum/fitness/confidence in the second half, which was poor, and give away a goal which while being very good by Huddersfield was equally poor from our perspective.

I know it’s a massive if, but if we are allowed the 2 on 1 with Knight and I think Lawrence, we take the lead and confidence and it’s a different game. But just not quite getting the breaks we need.

I can accept it’s not really good enough all round currently but I firmly believe we are just a couple of breaks from turning things around.

[DeMontfortRam]

I don't care how much we'd get laughed at, if we're going to give Cocu the chop I want Return of the Mac part III.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

33 minutes ago, Brummie Steve said:

Tommy Docherty?

Colin Murphy?

Nigel Pearson?

 

Brian Clough!

Jim Smith!

Arthur Cox!

 

And countless others somewhere in between.

Not easy choosing a manager is it?

Just be careful what we wish for!

 

I wasn't aware that Philip Cocu had gone but, should this happen McClaren mk iii would at least be a safe bet!

As much as I liked McClaren, hiring someone who has been sacked twice by us ! Crazy. Maybe we just keep going back to Mac until one works. Mac 6 I have a positive feeling about. 

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, nottingram said:

We’ve clearly tightened up hugely, giving barely any chances away but that has come at the expense of attacking output. I think yesterday was a bit of Cocu’s entire tenure in microcosm - was quite pretty for the most part, especially first half with a really good aggressive press but lacking in that final ball. When we found an excellent final ball, the linesman rules out probably a 9/10 chance at a goal for an offside that was three yards onside. Then we lose momentum/fitness/confidence in the second half, which was poor, and give away a goal which while being very good by Huddersfield was equally poor from our perspective.

I know it’s a massive if, but if we are allowed the 2 on 1 with Knight and I think Lawrence, we take the lead and confidence and it’s a different game. But just not quite getting the breaks we need.

I can accept it’s not really good enough all round currently but I firmly believe we are just a couple of breaks from turning things around.

I thought we gave Huddersfield quite a few chances tbh. And we still looked poo going forward. I never really saw us as scoring in the first half, it was neat enough but I never believed it'd have an output. The lino clearly got it wrong but we just aren't creating enough. One good chance isn't enough. Cocu's whole tenure here seems to be all about ifs and buts, but the truth is we're no better today than we were a year ago. 

[CornwallRam]

29 minutes ago, jcidaho said:

Curtis for manager

That is such an odd post - but my reaction is even stranger.

I vehemently don't want Rooney as our manager. It's Lampard all over again. I don't want to be Wayne Rooney's Derby. He'll either fail or do OK and leave quickly - we couldn't win. His managerial inexperience makes failure far more likely.

Yet, part of me would love to see Curtis as our manager. My objections to Rooney's, inexperience are probably slightly more valid for Curtis. He'd probably fail miserably - but I would actually love it if he succeed. The analytical part of me knows it's a stupid idea - the romantic part of me thinks it's what proper football is all about.

[nottingram]

19 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I thought we gave Huddersfield quite a few chances tbh. And we still looked poo going forward. I never really saw us as scoring in the first half, it was neat enough but I never believed it'd have an output. The lino clearly got it wrong but we just aren't creating enough. One good chance isn't enough. Cocu's whole tenure here seems to be all about ifs and buts, but the truth is we're no better today than we were a year ago. 

I agree the attacking output isn’t good enough but can’t really agree on the chances. Can’t think of much aside from the goal (xG shows 1.04 to Huddersfield of which 0.35 was the goal, with the rest not made up of anything major). Off the back of Watford only getting 0.5 it definitely shows some improvement.

I also agree there’s lots of ifs and buts, but I think that lots of it is fair. If we take the lead last night we probably do win and that is a massive decision that went against us. I accept they happen, everyone is human, but they just don’t really seem to be going our way currently. Clarke hitting the post another example. 

I can honestly understand the argument that people aren’t seeing much to get hopes up. But I don’t have much faith in anyone turning it around any quicker than Cocu will, and I do believe he will. Probably that is blind faith, Who knows really.

 

[Andicis]

Just now, nottingram said:

I agree the attacking output isn’t good enough but can’t really agree on the chances. Can’t think of much aside from the goal (xG shows 1.04 to Huddersfield of which 0.35 was the goal, with the rest not made up of anything major). Off the back of Watford only getting 0.5 it definitely shows some improvement.

I also agree there’s lots of ifs and buts, but I think that lots of it is fair. If we take the lead last night we probably do win and that is a massive decision that went against us. I accept they happen, everyone is human, but they just don’t really seem to be going our way currently. Clarke hitting the post another example. 

I can honestly understand the argument that people aren’t seeing much to get hopes up. But I don’t have much faith in anyone turning it around any quicker than Cocu will, and I do believe he will. Probably that is blind faith, Who knows really.

 

By the same token we got unlucky last night with the Knight decision, we got lucky vs Norwich and got 3 points we didn't deserve. I think Huddersfield got into good positions and if they were a better team could have opened us up at will. The counter attack where it was 3v1 and they hit our only defender being a good example of this. 

I've had enough of hearing excuses for Cocu, why he was unlucky here or why he's had a lot to contend with there. Time to start producing results or go. 

[nottingram]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

By the same token we got unlucky last night with the Knight decision, we got lucky vs Norwich and got 3 points we didn't deserve. I think Huddersfield got into good positions and if they were a better team could have opened us up at will. The counter attack where it was 3v1 and they hit our only defender being a good example of this. 

I've had enough of hearing excuses for Cocu, why he was unlucky here or why he's had a lot to contend with there. Time to start producing results or go. 

But by the same token as this bolded part we also got in to numerous good positions without actually creating anything? 

Agree mostly with your first part, and agree that results are now very much needed especially as key players are back fit. 

I don’t think injuries are an excuse, I think they are a perfectly valid reason. I’ve seen many people call for Mac 3 but we all saw how he dealt with injuries in 14/15 - don’t think it’s much different other than that his response was to lose 4-3 rather than 1-0, neither are much fun really. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

But by the same token as this bolded part we also got in to numerous good positions without actually creating anything? 

Agree mostly with your first part, and agree that results are now very much needed especially as key players are back fit. 

I don’t think injuries are an excuse, I think they are a perfectly valid reason. I’ve seen many people call for Mac 3 but we all saw how he dealt with injuries in 14/15 - don’t think it’s much different other than that his response was to lose 4-3 rather than 1-0, neither are much fun really. 

I rarely see Luton, or Barnsley, or Wycombe or these other clubs with worse squads than Derby making these excuses weekly to stick up for their manager but Cocu is defended by it every week. He can get more out of these players, I thoroughly believe it. 3 points out of 18 just is not good enough. The difference is, we all saw what a Mac side could produce with his players available, when has Cocu ever produced great football? We had that one spell, and that is it. And it was just good, never great.

Last night he had enough of his squad back to get a result. But once again he didn't. 

You're right on the first bit though. 

[Big Trav]

6 points in 33 is dreadful. Think he’ll be gone if we lose to forest and I can’t see any other result to be honest. If Mel puts rooney in charge I will be fuming. He’s slowly but surely turning us into a laughing stock with all these high profile signing who aren’t the best for the clubs interests. If cocu was to go I’d go balls deep for Eddie Howe or Mac 3 again but this time Mel needs to stay well clear from the managers decisions 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

The sooner we get waghorn/Colin/bielik back and fully involved the better.

We will either then massively improve and come good which will be universally excellent,or Cocu will continue to fail,it continues to go tits up and he is replaced as the excuses run out.

Not so excellent, obviously,but then would surely be little choice.

We should get some agreement  from the fans on here in either scenario,by that point,in theory at least.

In the mean time,find another sport or interest as it's not going to be pretty on here for some time until one or the other comes to pass.

[desirelines]

Are all the calls for Steve McClaren's return a satire? 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

4 minutes ago, desirelines said:

Are all the calls for Steve McClaren's return a satire? 

No.

[sonofmidnight]

1 hour ago, Andicis said:

 

I honestly don't see green shoots at all. Where are they? 

Perhaps they are lurking under the ground, unseen by us, and ready to emerge in the near future. Hope it doesn't take till Spring though. We can't wait that long can we?

[Andicis]

Just now, Dappled Ram said:

Perhaps they are lurking under the ground, unseen by us, and ready to emerge in the near future. Hope it doesn't take till Spring though. We can't wait that long can we?

No we certainly can't. We can only hope that is the case, I'm not holding out much hope anymore though.