Leeds Ram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 You can disagree with sportspeople taking the knee (I personally think it's now really an ultimately meaningless gesture that began in solidarity and now is just a thing that is done) and you can have disagreements with political actions taken in the name of 'Black Lives Matter' (i.e. broader progressive political claims and actions that you can easily disagree with and deconstruct) but booing such an action feels wrong and it's certainly not something I would be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said: (I personally think it's now really an ultimately meaningless gesture that began in solidarity and now is just a thing that is done) It keeps it in the public eye, enables questions to be asked - what has changed. So whilst the gesture risks becoming 'just a gesture' it does continue to highlight the inequalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Sith Happens said: I had a read through it last night as was curious what their fans might be saying....shocking. Me too. I was genuinely expecting many to condemn it but, I don’t recall any criticism at all. Quite the opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Tamworthram said: Funny though, no booing reported at any of the other grounds where fans were allowed. If you don’t agree with it just keep quiet and ignore it. I’d like to think that’s the stance any of our fans who don’t think it should happen would take. That’s a fair point. I think at most clubs these people are in the minority so won’t express that viewpoint as they don’t want to be outed so to speak. Millwall clearly have a higher percentage making it easier to feel comfortable doing. I actually wonder if it was a premeditated action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 hours ago, r4derby said: Yep, one look on Twitter after Sky Sports tweeted about it showed so many fans from all over agreeing with the Millwall fans. In some cases, it’s important to keep political matters out of football. In some cases, it’s important to make a stand at every opportunity. This is the latter. This action is short and doesn’t effect the match (it’s not like anyone against it can start playing and gets an advantage). People can have different opinions, but if you don’t agree with players showing a sign of solidarity for 10 seconds, don’t go to the game and keep your mouth shut. Agree with keeping political matters out. Sadly the Millwall fans bought it in yesterday. It’s just a sad example of the culture war that’s being pushed in western societies at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 If other fans fans start booing players for taking the knee what then lets just respect the anti racism campaigns for what they are and lets get back to football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Tamworthram said: Funny though, no booing reported at any of the other grounds where fans were allowed. If you don’t agree with it just keep quiet and ignore it. I’d like to think that’s the stance any of our fans who don’t think it should happen would take. Boos were heard at Colchester v Grimsby apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIMBAUD Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 How can inequality not be a political issue? All human behaviour is. What is revolting in my eyes is that some can see it is an excuse to effectively condone racism. Including government ministers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: It keeps it in the public eye, enables questions to be asked - what has changed. So whilst the gesture risks becoming 'just a gesture' it does continue to highlight the inequalities. That is one way to see it- the other is to see it as en masse virtue signalling. I think it's fallen into the latter category at the present moment but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Politicians, especially in this country over many years and all parties, have done pretty much as much as they can. They have gradually legislated against all things that can be discriminatory whether race, age, sex or anything else. We all know that it will be against some law somewhere if we behave in a discriminatory manner. You can argue that they should have gone further quicker or that some politicians have embraced the change more wholeheartedly than others and you might argue that punishment and reparation could be different, but that’s tinkering at the edges of the fundamental principles of the legislation that already exists. We are, no doubt, way ahead of some and behind others but if I look back over my lifetime our society has changed immeasurably for the better. No monkey chants from the terraces; love thy neighbour wouldn't be written never mind commissioned and shown on prime time tv; Bernard Manning's career would never get past the smallest of venues, if at all; use of the n word is, except in the most exclusive, mainly musical, circles, non existent; more prominent black people in leadership roles. Black lives matter much, much more than they used to and we are much the better for it. That there is though still a long journey to travel is self evident from the Millwall fan forum, never mind more public examples. Future change though is down to us. You, me every other human being. Politicians broadly and in many other countries around the world have given us the lead and it’s up to us and our behaviour to decide whether we want to behave differently and how quickly we want that change to happen, which is why @Leeds Ramis right - the taking of the knee has the risk of becoming a meaningless activity, losing its power and message. Has football become less fair because footballers aren't shaking hands before a match? Did it become fairer when they started? Does anyone even remember that it was introduced to encourage fair play? The symbolism is initially important but after a while its meaning gets lost. So too there has to be a time after taking the knee or wearing rainbow laces. Which is where we come in. It is up to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Two identical threads. Neither relevant to dcfc or Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 minute ago, RamNut said: Two identical threads. Neither relevant to dcfc or Rooney. So don't comment on it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Just now, RoyMac5 said: So don't comment on it then. Don’t create a thread with a fake reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Just now, RamNut said: Don’t create a thread with a fake reference What's fake about it, there's a link and everything. You sound a bit bothered have you read about our players and staff being bothered too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 I think you have to take your hat of to Wayne Rooney. With all the speculation surrounding who is going to be our club's next manager, he's just been getting on with preparing the team and getting results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 1 minute ago, RamNut said: Don’t create a thread with a fake reference Sorry you probably need to explain a bit more. We have 2 threads one complementing Rooney on his comments and another discussing a statement issued relating to our players. What’s eating you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 12 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/first-team-squad-release-statement-on-taking-the-knee-before-games.45490/ Christ. Jeez, Rod Liddle has got a lot of accounts on there! I'm wondering if the club's plan is to wind these 'supporters' up sufficiently so they hopefully get lost for good? Scary though how much right wing propaganda has become fact with these sort of people though. I worry that black people will become the next scapegoat. "A lot of them are here illegally actually". (Been living here since they were a kid and working for the NHS for 40 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstand Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Jeez, Rod Liddle has got a lot of accounts on there! I'm wondering if the club's plan is to wind these 'supporters' up sufficiently so they hopefully get lost for good? Scary though how much right wing propaganda has become fact with these sort of people though. I worry that black people will become the next scapegoat. "A lot of them are here illegally actually". (Been living here since they were a kid and working for the NHS for 40 years) If you want to get rid of right wing propaganda stop the extreme left wing propaganda problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, cstand said: If you want to get rid of right wing propaganda stop the extreme left wing propaganda problem solved. They made me do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 We tried really hard to let the debate flow in these two threads, as we believe it is important to discuss the issue of racism in football. While most have been respectful and tried to keep on topic, others have strayed so far into politics that I am locking the thread for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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