Entertainment level.

[FindernRam]

Rather than hijack the tribunal thread where I commented on entertainment, I've started one here. I said: 

 At Derby entertainment has been sorely lacking for too many games over too many seasons under too many managers. But for many of us the dream goes on as the years go by and we get older!  I still cherish memories of the charity shield at the old Wembley! Will we ever play the shield again!

@angieram, @David respectfully didn't entirely agree with me so let me expand a bit.

When I was young in the late 60s early 70s going to the match was a huge feature of the week. We knew the match schedule off by heart and of course most games were Saturday. Possibly due to sardine style social distancing, the crowd effect bordering on mass hysteria, very few games seemed dull. Walk home pumped up, win or lose. There would talking points at work and with mates all week 'till the next game.

Fast forward to the 2010s. Definitely a more technical game, players, if not the game, are quicker, but the blood and thunder has gone. Possession is everything for Derby sides under all recent managers, players tend to look back and sideways rather than forwards. 30 passes to get out of your own half. Single digit shots sometimes none on target. Crowd almost asleep, silent, looking at phones or tweeting. Often no real excitement apart from the occasional goal. Rarely go home pumped with excitement.

I look at the last season, and even allowing for advancing senility, I find it hard to pick out a game that I really remember as heart pumpingly good.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Might it be because we were one of the best teams in the country in the 70s, and now we're a midtable Championship side?

[Srg]

10 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Might it be because we were one of the best teams in the country in the 70s, and now we're a midtable Championship side?

Imagine that, eh?

[Big Bad Bob]

I understand where you are coming from. When I was young in the 90's I used to enjoy the walk to the pop side of the BBG trying to find a shortcut through the back streets, but always enjoying coming out again in the crowds walking to the stadium. Standing in the stadium and literally being carried off my feet (actually when lifted off my feet was a bit scary as I couldn't breath), but the general hustle and atmosphere in there. Then the walk back to the bus station and people stopping in cars to ask the score. I could name you more players in the team in the 90's than I could for a team from 5 - 10 years ago. 

Don't get me wrong there have been some games in recent years that I have enjoyed (for example the game against Leeds where Will Hughes destroyed them). But there are also times then I find myself checking the internet on my phone. I just think that is how times have evolved - all seater modern stadiums, tactics and technology. 

 

[FindernRam]

37 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Might it be because we were one of the best teams in the country in the 70s, and now we're a midtable Championship side?

Not completely true. It was more about the style of play. Arsenal in their invincible years were a very dull side, yet results said they were the best in the country. Derby had a pizzazz about them in those days, a uniqueness. Now we are just another humdrum team with no particular identity. Like almost all the lower Prem, through the Championship and maybe into league 1. 

Brentford have BMW and are really good to watch. Leeds have a certain style, but WBA, Fulham don't really stand out from the mundane crowd of which we are active members.

I saw a League 1 game on Sky last week or so. Can't remember who it was but there was lots of end to end stuff and it was entertaining to watch, so its not all about level.

I know we will never go back to the 70s, the world has moved on and Football has to compete with dozens of competitors, sport and non sport, but that makes it all the more important that Derby build a unique identity and style of play.

"Its in your DNA yoof!" doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

[Anag Ram]

I think the club should make people take their seats earlier. 

The game often kicks off without a real roar because too many are siphoning off the last beer. 

If we had a better atmosphere at kick off we might build momentum. 

I don't mind slow build up as long as I can see a purpose. If the intention is to drag opponents out of position then pounce, that's great. 

If they are passing it to each other because they lack skill and imagination I get grumpy. 

[Tamworthram]

2 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Not completely true. It was more about the style of play. Arsenal in their invincible years were a very dull side, yet results said they were the best in the country. Derby had a pizzazz about them in those days, a uniqueness. Now we are just another humdrum team with no particular identity. Like almost all the lower Prem, through the Championship and maybe into league 1. 

Brentford have BMW and are really good to watch. Leeds have a certain style, but WBA, Fulham don't really stand out from the mundane crowd of which we are active members.

I saw a League 1 game on Sky last week or so. Can't remember who it was but there was lots of end to end stuff and it was entertaining to watch, so its not all about level.

I know we will never go back to the 70s, the world has moved on and Football has to compete with dozens of competitors, sport and non sport, but that makes it all the more important that Derby build a unique identity and style of play.

"Its in your DNA yoof!" doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

Another factor to bear in mind is accidental selective memory. I’ve been a Rams fan for over 40 years and, naturally, it’s easy to remember the good/exciting games whereas the drab and boring ones, of which I’m sure there were many, quickly fade from our memories.

Same applies to the atmosphere at games. The older generation amongst us like to remember the good old Baseball Ground but I don’t think all games were played in front of packed, vibrant and supportive crowds.

Having said that, I do think you’re right to an extent but doubt very much if it’s only applies to Derby.

For me, some of the biggest factors are:

All seater stadiums. I don’t want to get into a debate as to whether safe standing should be introduced but, IMO they don’t help with the atmosphere. Back in the old days, the “singers” would tend to congregate together and not be restricted by their booked seats.

Players cheating and refs falling for it. How often is a match stopped and the flow of the game interrupted because a player appears to have been taken out by a sniper on the roof only for him to be up and running normally again a minute later?
 

Technology. I agree, it’s far to easy to disengage from the game and check our phones.
 

 

[angieram]

I think it's more about fans' perception of games than the actual nature of them. If we all went to football games with the mindset of a child and determined to clap and support our team then football would be the better for it.

You don't have to sit on your hands or play on your phone or groan at every slight mistake or sit back and wait to be 'entertained' or slag off the team but many choose to do just that.

Maybe for some they are so jaded with the constant onslaught of sport at the very highest level that they've lost the passion for the game they once had.

I was also there in the 70s and some of the football was pretty meh at times but many view those days with rose tinted glasses. Of course we were brilliant and at the top of our game but in general we were playing at a time when defences were nowhere near as good.

I don't know whether DCFC has a higher proportion of older supporters than other clubs and whether this affects the matchday experience or not but I recall the very last game we played before lockdown when we beat Blackburn convincingly. I said to the woman who sits near us and who complains loudly to me as she exits every match "that was great today, wasn't it?" thinking she couldn't possibly moan about that and she said "dreadful, I won't be coming back". For once she was right - about the not coming back, that is - but she says that after every match and I think she just comes along for the moan. Her and her racist husband really grind my gears and I wish they would stay away.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

Her and her racist husband really grind my gears and I wish they would stay away.

Is that something you'd be able to report?

[angieram]

1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Is that something you'd be able to report?

Probably and if he does it again I might be brave enough this time. It's really difficult when you're the newbies in the stand and to be fair to his wife she told him off so I kept quiet. 

Given what's been happening recently I now feel it's not good enough to do nothing.

[RoyMac5]

Wish there was still a standing section, that was always entertaining. ?

Well maybe not, but what I mean is if you compare it to going to a gig and sitting down or standing up dancing. Makes a difference.

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, angieram said:

I think it's more about fans' perception of games than the actual nature of them. 

I think the media haven't helped with this. So many fans have experienced football via tv & videos before going to a live game and being 'part of it' rather than 'watching' it.

[Xlor]

Ticket prices have killed atmospheres and ya age has killed your enthusiasm. It's a bit like xmas. Loved it as a kid, cant wait for to finish now

[FindernRam]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

I recall the very last game we played before lockdown when we beat Blackburn convincingly

Now you mention it that game was better. I had previously 90% decided not to renew for next year and I said to my wife as we sat in traffic. "Typical of Derby to put in a good one and put doubt into our decision." Usually we are in a slump as we approach early bird time.

Our last actual attended game, but now I have no clear recollection of that game at all! And that really makes my point for me! If the game is not creating memories why bother.

My personal view of entertainment issues, sort of sorted, but all interlinked:

Coaches/Sport Scientists all do same courses so tend to have similar biases in terms of how everyone plays the same.

Fear of losing outweighs joy of winning for players and coaches leading to sterile games

Poor Refs, and I don't want VAR. That's just another poor official.

Seated stadiums,  but I couldn't stand for 2 hours these days.

In game distractions like phones.

Radio Derby.

Age: less inclined to drag myself out on a cold winters night no matter what!

Non issues for me:-

Media- take it all with pinch of salt

Expectations based on watching elite level games. I've watch the Rams too long to have high expectations-- at least consciously.

Cost- I can afford it so it is only an issue if I feel lack of value for money, and we each have our own views on that.  

[FindernRam]

2 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

The game often kicks off without a real roar because too many are siphoning off the last beer. 

I blame the farcical walk out ceremony, false "I love you" handshakes and wannabee photos in the middle. Takes a good 5 minutes to get the game going. 

Run out, toss up and get on with it.

[europia]

8 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Might it be because we were one of the best teams in the country in the 70s, and now we're a midtable Championship side?

Yes the ch'ship is a tough league, so it's a real grind for a team like Derby. 

[Jayram]

As a young kid I was a season ticket holder in the early 80’s during the worst era of the clubs history and yet I barely missed a game. Despite the team being so crap I always felt that thrill of excitement on the build up to match day and couldn’t wait to get to the BBG despite how poorly we might have played in the previous game. Football was a much simpler game back then. Ticket prices were cheap and there was none of the overly commercial crap that ruins it now. Clubs weren’t trying to milk you of every last penny for every little thing; the club wore the same kit for 2/3 seasons before changing it, seasons ticket holders were actually rewarded for their loyalty with free cup vouchers instead of having to buy their own seats back for such matches as they do now and the matchday programme was genuinely interesting (anyone remember editor Harry Browns quest to end the gypsy curse on the BBG?!).
Nowadays I find that I am much more discerning about how I spend my leisure time and my money for such activities. Football is too expensive for the level of entertainment offered in return these days. I loath the commercialism and over exposure of the modern game; I’d rather boil my testicles in acid than watch West Ham v Brighton on Sky’s ‘Super Sunday’ for 3 hours and I couldn’t give a poo about whether some African superstar is going to leave AC Milan to join Arsenal. I fear that the Championship is turning into Premier League 2 and that the two promotion places will be contested forever by the likes of Norwich, Watford, WBA and Fulham while the rest of us desperately try to grab the crumbs of a playoff place.
On a personal level I find the possession based toothless football we currently play utterly tedious and even if I was able to attend matches I just wouldn’t bother at the moment because I want to be entertained not dulled into a coma. I am also bitterly disappointed at the way our club has been run for the last 5 years which doesn’t help.

To cut a long story short I have fallen out of love with the game generally and have not felt excited about watching Derby since the 2013/14 season.  That said I know I will tune into Radio Derby for the first game of the season, watch the our matches on Sky and scan this forum most days just to see what’s what. It’s a hard habit to break! ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

I mainly go to away games, so I usually get to see quite a few goals and good performances. 

 

 

 

From the home team....?

[ck-]

On 08/08/2020 at 07:21, Jayram said:

As a young kid I was a season ticket holder in the early 80’s during the worst era of the clubs history and yet I barely missed a game. Despite the team being so crap I always felt that thrill of excitement on the build up to match day and couldn’t wait to get to the BBG despite how poorly we might have played in the previous game.

100% agree with this. 
It’s changed. I too attended my first games in the late 70s/early 80s and had a fantastic time watching the rise back from the old 3rd division.