Coronavirus

[maxjam]

Just now, BIllyD said:

There is no doubt restrictions will be lifted, but as I alluded to earlier those who refuse the vaccine could have a big impact on how far these go. Interesting that on this thread if you feel that the lockdowns have been justified you don't care about anyone else and are responsible for letting the government get away with it, refuse the vaccine though and that's your right and your managing your own risk and not having an impact on the lockdowns ?‍♂️

We can't be held to ransom by those that refuse the vaccine surely?

As for not caring about anyone else, if we open up in the Spring after all of the over 50s have been vaccinated I will be in the next most vulnerable group - the 45-50s.  The chances of anyone my age you younger getting seriously ill with covid in the summer whilst we await our turn in the vaccine queue when the R rate will be hopefully significantly under 1 will be remote. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, BIllyD said:

Arent they ? Based on what may I ask ?

Really?

As at 7 December a grand total of 192 people aged under 50 with no underlying health condition had died in England from Covid.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/28/60s-died-roads-last-year-no-underlying-conditions-coronavirus/

 

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

All major stats are down, ICU though is the one that the government will monitor as this is one of the key KPIs. It won't stop them from reducing restrictions - but they WILL be watching this metric like a hawk. The number in ICU will govern how far they release restrictions and the pace of release. 
 

There is no doubt restrictions will be lifted, but as I alluded to earlier those who refuse the vaccine could have a big impact on how far these go. Interesting that on this thread if you feel that the lockdowns have been justified you don't care about anyone else and are responsible for letting the government get away with it, refuse the vaccine though and that's your right and your managing your own risk and not having an impact on the lockdowns ?‍♂️

Seems only fair as if you oppose lockdown you don’t care about anyone dying from covid ??‍♂️

[BIllyD]

Just now, maxjam said:

We can't be held to ransom by those that refuse the vaccine surely?

As for not caring about anyone else, if we open up in the Spring after all of the over 50s have been vaccinated I will be in the next most vulnerable group - the 45-50s.  The chances of anyone my age you younger getting seriously ill with covid in the summer whilst we await our turn in the vaccine queue when the R rate will be hopefully significantly under 1 will be remote. 

So what's the solution to not being held to ransom ? You only have so many ICU beds, you have the largest NHS waiting list for years and you have the one most contagious virus ever to have hit this country. You open up the country and suddenly you have a large group that are at risk of continuing to put our health service under extreme pressure. The problem is then that the rest of the country is impacted, because I'm guessing you are not turning these people away ?

The way we have done the vaccinations then I can't see there being an issue with opening up in Spring, well I hope, but IMO it's clear to see why we aren't opening everything up straight away.

[BIllyD]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Really?

As at 7 December a grand total of 192 people aged under 50 with no underlying health condition had died in England from Covid.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/28/60s-died-roads-last-year-no-underlying-conditions-coronavirus/

 

So you only think that people in this age group (over 50) catch the virus and go into hospital ?

[BIllyD]

9 minutes ago, Archied said:

Seems only fair as if you oppose lockdown you don’t care about anyone dying from covid ??‍♂️

Don't think I have ever said that ?

[maxjam]

Just now, BIllyD said:

So what's the solution to not being held to ransom ?

If the vaccine take up continues to be high (and its currently running at 90%+) people that haven't been vaccinated will have a reduced chance of catching it.

 

4 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

You only have so many ICU beds, you have the largest NHS waiting list for years and you have the one most contagious virus ever to have hit this country.

You could argue a similar thing for cancer patients - we can only treat so many at a time, which is why we have waiting lists, why does person A thats never smoked have to be on the same list as person B thats smoked all of his life?

With specific regards to ICU beds however, I'm assuming that by next autumn/winter a good percentage of the country will have been vaccinated and we'll be down to somewhat normal levels of hospital admission rates again. 

[G STAR RAM]

8 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

So you only think that people in this age group (over 50) catch the virus and go into hospital ?

No, but the vast majority:-

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland12february2021

[BIllyD]

Just now, maxjam said:

If the vaccine take up continues to be high (and its currently running at 90%+) people that haven't been vaccinated will have a reduced chance of catching it.

 

You could argue a similar thing for cancer patients - we can only treat so many at a time, which is why we have waiting lists, why does person A thats never smoked have to be on the same list as person B thats smoked all of his life?

With specific regards to ICU beds however, I'm assuming that by next autumn/winter a good percentage of the country will have been vaccinated and we'll be down to somewhat normal levels of hospital admission rates again. 

It's a good point, but the rate of cancer (thankfully) is not threatening to overwhelm our health system. I'm not saying by the way they should be refused treatment, just that this is one of the measures that is going to impact the restrictions that the government lift or don't. 

Hopefully by next winter everything will be back to normal ?

[Albert]

40 minutes ago, maxjam said:

The Govt hopes to have everyone over 50 vaccinated by May - the 25% quoted being admitted were under 55, so a signifcant number of those will be over 50.

As discussed, the R rate is also now under 1, assuming we stay in lockdown until Easter it should in theory be even lower. Covid rates also dropped off remained relatively low during last years warmer months giving us plenty of time to start vaccinating the under 50s. 

IMO, currently there is no reason to stay locked down beyond the Spring.

As long as the R number stays below 1 through that reopening, of course. 

1 hour ago, Archied said:

Really ? Come on , what’s  the percentage number of healthy under 50 s who test positive for covid who die or are hospitalised?

As noted above, in terms of infections, the estimated rate is about 1 in 5000 people between the ages of 20 and 49 die. As others have quoted, we're looking at cutting the hospitalisation rate to about a quarter. 

39 minutes ago, Archied said:

How many times do I need to say it ? I’m extremely lucky in relative terms through this  , heres one for the adverts

can I look someone in the eye whose lost they’re business, job ,livelihood and say we are all in this together ?

when I sit in my garden with my family can I look a parent or single person in the eye as they are locked indoors in a flat with they’re kids or isolated alone and tell them ,we are all in this together?

Lap tops for kids ?, how many poor even have semi decent broadband?
 

I could go on with more examples but the bottom line is I do not want anybody to have they’re lives destroyed a minute longer to cut the risk of me catching covid,

if anybody wants to tell me they only order what they need rather than what  they want so others risked are minimised and they don’t use they’re garden as they want us all to be in it together and a whole host of other stuff then I will tip my hat to them and show the respect that deserves but that’s not what I’m seeing and hearing 

I’m hearing the work from homes happy to be saving on travel costs , perhaps tax relief or more expenses too , I’m hearing the special home beer deliveries roll whilst anybody who may think pubs should be allowed to operate covid safe is one totally selfish villain ?,the list could go on and on 

anybody sitting in a decent position and claiming we are all in this together is the height of selfishness

 

Again, people are in this together, but they're acting like they're not. Far more could have been done to prevent this situation, but at the same time, far more could have been done to support people through it too. 

[BIllyD]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, but the vast majority:-

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19weeklyinsights/latesthealthindicatorsinengland12february2021

We wasn't talking about the vast majority though were we ? You said the young and healthy weren't really at risk from COVID. I suppose it depends on what is considered young, average age of 60 in ICU seems low to me but maybe that's not for you ?‍♀️

[Archied]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

As long as the R number stays below 1 through that reopening, of course. 

As noted above, in terms of infections, the estimated rate is about 1 in 5000 people between the ages of 20 and 49 die. As others have quoted, we're looking at cutting the hospitalisation rate to about a quarter. 

Again, people are in this together, but they're acting like they're not. Far more could have been done to prevent this situation, but at the same time, far more could have been done to support people through it too. 

People are not in this together , the threat from the virus is not the same for all and the threat from lockdown is not the same for all ,now you can keep on denying it and claiming some kind of paper thin facade as much as you like if that’s what you need to do but it’s false but some are acting like it’s true

 

 

[Tyler Durden]

When do the pubs open again that's the most important question on here 

[uttoxram75]

Got a text today asking me to book my vaccination.

I'm 60. I'm really not sure I want to have it. I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies and I don't trust the government.

My family are all putting pressure on me to have it. My work will expect me to have it.

I just don't feel raite about it. Is the mRNA vaccine a true vaccine as in the ones we had as kids for Polio and TB?

 

[jimmyp]

17 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Got a text today asking me to book my vaccination.

I'm 60. I'm really not sure I want to have it. I don't trust the pharmaceutical companies and I don't trust the government.

My family are all putting pressure on me to have it. My work will expect me to have it.

I just don't feel raite about it. Is the mRNA vaccine a true vaccine as in the ones we had as kids for Polio and TB?

 

Thought this was an interesting stat regarding the mRNA vaccines.

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

We can't be held to ransom by those that refuse the vaccine surely?

As for not caring about anyone else, if we open up in the Spring after all of the over 50s have been vaccinated I will be in the next most vulnerable group - the 45-50s.  The chances of anyone my age you younger getting seriously ill with covid in the summer whilst we await our turn in the vaccine queue when the R rate will be hopefully significantly under 1 will be remote. 

In my personal opinion, if people choose not to have the vaccine then that is their right, but it's no longer the government's responsibility to look after them. The people who refuse vaccines shouldn't be considered when unlocking. 

[uttoxram75]

2 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

Thought this was an interesting stat regarding the mRNA vaccines.

So is the mRNA vaccine a true vaccine as we have had for years? 

[Albert]

12 minutes ago, Andicis said:

In my personal opinion, if people choose not to have the vaccine then that is their right, but it's no longer the government's responsibility to look after them. The people who refuse vaccines shouldn't be considered when unlocking. 

The issue is that the more people who don't have immunity, the easier it will be for the disease to keep spreading. There are people who will not develop an immunity, or can't develop an immunity, even with the vaccine, and this group of people will be impacted by such selfish choices. This, in effect, forces the government to take into account these people when making such decisions. 

8 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

So is the mRNA vaccine a true vaccine as we have had for years? 

Define 'true vaccine'. There are many different types of vaccine. 

[uttoxram75]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

The issue is that the more people who don't have immunity, the easier it will be for the disease to keep spreading. There are people who will not develop an immunity, or can't develop an immunity, even with the vaccine, and this group of people will be impacted by such selfish choices. This, in effect, forces the government to take into account these people when making such decisions. 

Define 'true vaccine'. There are many different types of vaccine. 

I really don't know. That's why I was asking.

I believe I had the virus early last year, as in January. I have been at work all through the so called lockdowns, I have been in close contact with many people who have tested positive yet not had another bout.

I was told by a surgeon last March to have a glass of water after having contact with people. He said even if the virus was present, flushing into your gut would render it harmless. I have followed that advice for the last year, ate sensibly with plenty of Vitamin C in my diet, done some deep breathing exercises every day. 

Why would I need a vaccine that has not had any long term adverse symptom testing?

[Andicis]

16 minutes ago, Albert said:

The issue is that the more people who don't have immunity, the easier it will be for the disease to keep spreading. There are people who will not develop an immunity, or can't develop an immunity, even with the vaccine, and this group of people will be impacted by such selfish choices. This, in effect, forces the government to take into account these people when making such decisions. 

Agreed, immunocompromised patients will ultimately be the ones who suffer here unfortunately, seems to be a decision that will inevitably screw them. With the current uptake of the vaccine, the hospital admissions and deaths are soon to fall surely though, and at some point you have to accept an inevitable degree of risk here. You can't get 100% uptake.