Coronavirus

[Comrade 86]

15 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

When I went into the hospital the other day I saw two terrifying things.  firstly a chap at the entrance getting people to change many masks to medical grade ones as there's were no longer considered efficient- since May we've been told to cover our faces with an old sock as long as it had a filter made from toilet roll and that would be ok .  Seems it isn't .  Secondly a bloke creating havoc as he'd put some self tan on his face and didn't want to wear a mask in case it left marks.  

Yeah seen a few opining that folk are stupid, pathetic, yadda, yadda, yadda. I just think they're selfish. That said, a bloke wearing fake tan is hinky enough, but after the summer we've had... Maybe folk are stupid after all ?‍♀️

[ramit]

24 minutes ago, David said:

I see a lot of people say this is all about control, but I can't see that, many world leaders don't get on, can you see Trump and Putin for example agreeing to create this pandemic to control? It just wouldn't happen.

And doesn't need to happen.  Politicians are reactive, not proactive, nothing new ever comes from them.  If this whole thing is about control, it is set up by the real powers in this world, big money.

[Chester40]

I think there are very few people who actively think its a conspiracy. There are even less who don't have sympathy for people who get seriously ill. 

If the choice was between say.. a 1 in 100 chance of serious illness and a 1 in 5 chance of severe financial hardship /job loss, then I would take the latter option. 

The fact that humans constantly put themselves at risk even when its totally unnecessary shows this wouldn't be an uncommon thought process. From speeding in cars, sunbathing, going on sun beds, not going to the Doctor with health concerns, smoking, drinking, eating meat, being overweight, climbing mountains ...the list is endless.

I see people stood outside hospitals (patients and nurses) smoking and it boggles my mind. Totally unnecessary risk being taken.

I have a couple of friends who are seriously contemplating selling their home and moving back to their parents'. That is devastating in its effect on them in every way. I have another with cancer who can't sleep for worry about exposure but at the same time is even more aware their treatment is being adversely affected. 

The reality is many many more people are having their lives adversely affected by the attempts to control the virus than there are people who are falling ill to it. Of course it looks very different when you are unlucky enough to be hit by Covid in its full force. 

No one can fail to be enormously sympathetic when you see a parent of a child who's died of a drug overdose on tv campaigning for safety, for bigger sentences for drug dealers etc and spend their whole lives on this crusade begging youngsters not to take risk. But every weekend thousands of youngsters will say 'yeh, sad but it won't be me' before heading out on a night out. 

If someone on this forum had lost a young child killed outside a school to a speeding driver would I think 'get over it'? Obviously my heart would go out to them. But would I still drive over 70 on the motorway later...be irritated by the pensioner driving at 17mph on the way home? 

As I have said several times before, we are all essentially skewed by the way things affect us personally. On a daily basis I can see infinitely more harm being caused by the restrictions than I can by the disease itself. So my heart goes out to those who have been unlucky and I hope I continue to be lucky. I would always apologise to those who see my views as heartless but my emotions are currently more skewed/affected by close friends and relatives who have lost their jobs, had to sack people and fret constantly about how their business or livelyhood is going to survive any further waves of lockdown. 

[Sith Happens]

2 hours ago, Chester40 said:

I think there are very few people who actively think its a conspiracy. There are even less who don't have sympathy for people who get seriously ill. 

If the choice was between say.. a 1 in 100 chance of serious illness and a 1 in 5 chance of severe financial hardship /job loss, then I would take the latter option. 

The fact that humans constantly put themselves at risk even when its totally unnecessary shows this wouldn't be an uncommon thought process. From speeding in cars, sunbathing, going on sun beds, not going to the Doctor with health concerns, smoking, drinking, eating meat, being overweight, climbing mountains ...the list is endless.

I see people stood outside hospitals (patients and nurses) smoking and it boggles my mind. Totally unnecessary risk being taken.

I have a couple of friends who are seriously contemplating selling their home and moving back to their parents'. That is devastating in its effect on them in every way. I have another with cancer who can't sleep for worry about exposure but at the same time is even more aware their treatment is being adversely affected. 

The reality is many many more people are having their lives adversely affected by the attempts to control the virus than there are people who are falling ill to it. Of course it looks very different when you are unlucky enough to be hit by Covid in its full force. 

No one can fail to be enormously sympathetic when you see a parent of a child who's died of a drug overdose on tv campaigning for safety, for bigger sentences for drug dealers etc and spend their whole lives on this crusade begging youngsters not to take risk. But every weekend thousands of youngsters will say 'yeh, sad but it won't be me' before heading out on a night out. 

If someone on this forum had lost a young child killed outside a school to a speeding driver would I think 'get over it'? Obviously my heart would go out to them. But would I still drive over 70 on the motorway later...be irritated by the pensioner driving at 17mph on the way home? 

As I have said several times before, we are all essentially skewed by the way things affect us personally. On a daily basis I can see infinitely more harm being caused by the restrictions than I can by the disease itself. So my heart goes out to those who have been unlucky and I hope I continue to be lucky. I would always apologise to those who see my views as heartless but my emotions are currently more skewed/affected by close friends and relatives who have lost their jobs, had to sack people and fret constantly about how their business or livelyhood is going to survive any further waves of lockdown. 

A very good reasoned post.

Genuine question for you,  do you think lockdown should not have happened?

For me personally I think the comparison of those affected by covid as an illness and those financially or other reasons is a difficult one to judge without access to a parallel universe or a sliding doors moment. 

Let's say we hadn't lockdown and half a million died as a result the chances are most of us would lost someone we loved or cared about.  Would you take your brother's finances over your mother's life (hypothetically speaking as I don't know your circumstances )

For me I think the fact most of us hardly know anyone affected is good, I'm not sure it's a greenlight to return to normality as we may well do if this second surge isn't arrested. 

As someone else suggested which recieved an angry response,maybe we lockdown the vulnerable and elderly, I've said it before as someone who had to shield I'll take that on the chin if it helps the country get through this.

 

[Chester40]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

A very good reasoned post.

Genuine question for you,  do you think lockdown should not have happened?

For me personally I think the comparison of those affected by covid as an illness and those financially or other reasons is a difficult one to judge without access to a parallel universe or a sliding doors moment. 

Let's say we hadn't lockdown and half a million died as a result the chances are most of us would lost someone we loved or cared about.  Would you take your brother's finances over your mother's life (hypothetically speaking as I don't know your circumstances )

For me I think the fact most of us hardly know anyone affected is good, I'm not sure it's a greenlight to return to normality as we may well do if this second surge isn't arrested. 

As someone else suggested which recieved an angry response,maybe we lockdown the vulnerable and elderly, I've said it before as someone who had to shield I'll take that on the chin if it helps the country get through this.

 

Honestly.. I don't know. I just do as I'm told and hope the government know what they are doing...

My feelings are just essentially personal. They became entrenched with the whole NHS love-in. Which felt a bit fake and overblown. 

I just know absolutely, that given the choice myself - between being a teacher (being sent into a 'risky' situation) and being a self employed handyman or owner of a hairdresser/cafe etc (being told to sit at home, protect others and wait), I would in a heartbeat select the former. So conversely that is where my overriding sympathy lies and we need to do whatever we can to try to be business as normal. 

As an aside, if I had a serous underlying health condition, then I don't think lockdown would majorly make a difference...I really wouldn't go out unless I had to. 

 

[Sith Happens]

17 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

I've just seen it reported that SAGE are claiming that only 1 in 5 infected people are actually isolating properly. Not sure what their working is, here, but if that's anything close to being true, then it's appalling.

just been reading this too.

what hope is there if people continue to act in such a selfish manner. 

it does stun me if true,  I'd have been appalled if it was 1 in 5 not self isolating 

maybe shielding those most at risk is the only way if people are acting like this.

 

[Sith Happens]

1 minute ago, Chester40 said:

Honestly.. I don't know. I just do as I'm told and hope the government know what they are doing...

My feelings are just essentially personal. They became entrenched with the whole NHS love-in. Which felt a bit fake and overblown. 

I just know absolutely, that given the choice myself - between being a teacher (being sent into a 'risky' situation) and being a self employed handyman or owner of a hairdresser/cafe etc (being told to sit at home, protect others and wait), I would in a heartbeat select the former. So conversely that is where my overriding sympathy lies and we need to do whatever we can to try to be business as normal. 

As an aside, if I had a serous underlying health condition, then I don't think lockdown would majorly make a difference...I really wouldn't go out unless I had to. 

 

Its tough.

I just wish people would stick to the rules.  I'm fed up of people saying they are too complicated or that they keep changing. Of course they do,  it's a fluid situation.  I would be more concerned if a government decided on an approach and stuck to it rigidly, things are changing so rapidly. 

I am in the at risk group but trying to live as normally as possible.  I will go to a pub, but would leave if I felt it wasn't safe to be there. 

I went in two pubs yesterday, and while I didn't feel unsafe as such in the first, the second was far better. 

the second one they wouldn't let you in without sanitizing your hands, staff with visors on. 

the first, they had the sanitizer on the door,  but we watched and almost every 'younger' person who entered ignored it  while the older ones did not.

there was also a large group of people,  clearly in a group of more than six, but split on two tables as though that was the way to 'get around it'

there was good space so I did not feel their actions affected me as such but an indication that people don't care, or think they know better. 

I'm not sure I would have felt as safe later as it got busier though.

[Van der MoodHoover]

20 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Norm for PM 

Not enough use of the medieval Byzantine language for my taste.?

[Van der MoodHoover]

10 hours ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

When I went into the hospital the other day I saw two terrifying things.  firstly a chap at the entrance getting people to change many masks to medical grade ones as there's were no longer considered efficient- since May we've been told to cover our faces with an old sock as long as it had a filter made from toilet roll and that would be ok .  Seems it isn't .  Secondly a bloke creating havoc as he'd put some self tan on his face and didn't want to wear a mask in case it left marks.  

That all sounds a bit like those old WW1 documentaries which explain the reaction to the use of poison gas in the trenches. Started out as a hanky dipped in some chemical before you end up in 1918 with full respirators covering head and neck. You wonder whether the government daren't reveal the full truth too early - imagine if they had said "only full visors are effective - btw next delivery Feb 2021".

[Sith Happens]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54205353

hopefully a very large fine is being dished out

[alexxxxx]

Fully expecting this weekend to be the last weekend before national restrictions come back unfortunately. So many noises in the media. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

24 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54205353

hopefully a very large fine is being dished out

I get lost for words.  Trying to be reasonable here but a hundred  fine is not much more than a good night out in todays money for this type of risky mass mixing, Minimum £1000 fine and a few days in the local open prison for repeat offenders would stop it.  We need to get tougher with these idiots.  

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

Its tough.

I just wish people would stick to the rules.  I'm fed up of people saying they are too complicated or that they keep changing. Of course they do,  it's a fluid situation.  I would be more concerned if a government decided on an approach and stuck to it rigidly, things are changing so rapidly. 

I am in the at risk group but trying to live as normally as possible.  I will go to a pub, but would leave if I felt it wasn't safe to be there. 

I went in two pubs yesterday, and while I didn't feel unsafe as such in the first, the second was far better. 

the second one they wouldn't let you in without sanitizing your hands, staff with visors on. 

the first, they had the sanitizer on the door,  but we watched and almost every 'younger' person who entered ignored it  while the older ones did not.

there was also a large group of people,  clearly in a group of more than six, but split on two tables as though that was the way to 'get around it'

there was good space so I did not feel their actions affected me as such but an indication that people don't care, or think they know better. 

I'm not sure I would have felt as safe later as it got busier though.

Businesses have a lot more to do.  Drove past Mcdonalds yesterday near Burton.  The entire front entrance was blocked by at least 15 teenagers with bikes.  No distancing , no masks.  The people inside looked like trapped animals.  Had to walk throw them to get out.  The manager should have been telling them to jog on.  The problem we we have here is too much untouchable ignorance combined with too much reserved politeness.  I'm also guilty  to be honest, too polite  but I have started getting more vocal and peed off.   

I guarantee we are in for a hard winter.  A lot of front line staff in the hospital would rather quit than go through this again. There terrified, some have already gone, I've been told this and it's been on the radio earlier this week.  We are walking into a poo storm and have been since start of August when early indicators were brushed aside.

[Norman]

University of somewhere reckon a third of Covid deaths recorded  in July and August were actually due to cancer or car crashes. 

And it looks like another lockdown is imminent. 

The economy is about to buckle in most sectors. Scary. 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

University of somewhere reckon a third of Covid deaths recorded  in July and August were actually due to cancer or car crashes. 

And it looks like another lockdown is imminent. 

The economy is about to buckle in most sectors. Scary. 

I saw an official post from a health source that we’ve had 6000 deaths (maybe earlier than would have or maybe could have been prevented) due to cancer treatments not being given but the same article predicted another 40,000 over the next 12 months through treatments or diagnosis not taking place now.

We have basically swapped saving Covid and Cancer around and in the meantime we’ll be close to two million unemployed post November IMO.

[Ghost of Clough]

A group of 7 or 8  in their late teens on a train... all without masks on. 2 lads in their early 30’s are sharing a can of tramp’s piss as they think it gets them out of wearing a mask as well. 

 

Edit: they just finished their can. One still chose not to wear a mask, the other opted to use his to keep his chin warm. 

[ariotofmyown]

4 hours ago, rammieib said:

I saw an official post from a health source that we’ve had 6000 deaths (maybe earlier than would have or maybe could have been prevented) due to cancer treatments not being given but the same article predicted another 40,000 over the next 12 months through treatments or diagnosis not taking place now.

We have basically swapped saving Covid and Cancer around and in the meantime we’ll be close to two million unemployed post November IMO.

You know we had about 50k excess deaths during the Spring right? That did actually happen.

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

You know we had about 50k excess deaths during the Spring right? That did actually happen.

It doesn't matter. 

[Gone]

2nd wave you say......looks like it’s dropping already. Hold tight lockdown lovers 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

You know we had about 50k excess deaths during the Spring right? That did actually happen.

And you think the same is going to happen again or would happen again? I don’t think we’re asking for much to get our health care back up to the Pre Covid levels unless you don’t want that?