Chester40 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, Paul71 said: The 1% can only go out because the restrictions are being eased not removed. If we had not had lockdown I wonder if the numbers that were being talked about of 500k dead would have come true? Surely its not 1% anyway. 2 million were asked to shield, and not all of those were old people. We have over 3 million over 80 in the UK who would also be more at risk, although I accept that some of those 2 million will be within those 3 million, but we are still feasibly looking at 4 or 5 million people just by my rubbish fag packet maths that would be in an enforced self isolation if lock down hadnt happened, or we lifted restrictions faster than we are. I agree the economy is vital though and you cant just go in indefinetly. Maybe its a good job that us mere mortals can just offer an opinion on whats happening, i cant imagine being in a position of having to make a decision, asking the question...So what it is it? 1 million unemployed of half a million dead? Hopefully most of those 1 million will find their way back into work as the economy recovers.....thats an easier task than bringing half a million people back to life. Good points as ever.... But how will the economy recover unless we let the vast bulk of the working population get back to work/normal life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Didn't I read that they decided to knock 5,000 off the total death toll last week? Because they died with Covid and not due to Covid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Good points as ever.... But how will the economy recover unless we let the vast bulk of the working population get back to work/normal life? Im not going to pretend I know how many are still on furlough, but people are returning to work. I have colleagues who have returned and those that i know that have businesses and furloughed staff now have them back. Of course my experience is purely anecdotal. It would be interesting to know how many were on furlough in say May compared with now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Norman said: Didn't I read that they decided to knock 5,000 off the total death toll last week? Because they died with Covid and not due to Covid? No, England adjusted how they measured deaths to match what the rest of the world seems to be doing. England were saying if you had Coronavirus is say March but got hit by a bus in July then it went down as a Coronavirus death. They have now changed it so it is only registered as a Coronavirus death if you had it within the last 28 days. The other home nations were already doing it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Good points as ever.... But how will the economy recover unless we let the vast bulk of the working population get back to work/normal life? I keep hearing this "normal life". Life has no "normal ". It evolves to suit circumstances. There seems to be an uncomfortable truth starting to emerge. If people go out less, and we realise that you DON'T need to physically shunt millions of people around each day for work (thus needing feeding etc), then what economic activity is going to emerge instead? Could it be we are starting to realise how overpopulated we are to be scrambling to find worthwhile things for all the coffee shop, cafe and similar workers to do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Paul71 said: No, England adjusted how they measured deaths to match what the rest of the world seems to be doing. England were saying if you had Coronavirus is say March but got hit by a bus in July then it went down as a Coronavirus death. They have now changed it so it is only registered as a Coronavirus death if you had it within the last 28 days. The other home nations were already doing it this way. Makes more sense. Crazy way of recording deaths if that's what they were doing. Makes you wonder what the actual total may be. Do we have any figures for the death totals below 60? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Just now, Norman said: Makes more sense. Crazy way of recording deaths if that's what they were doing. Makes you wonder what the actual total may be. Do we have any figures for the death totals below 60? I said in an earlier post I think the onus should have been on WHO to dictate how deaths should be recorded, they dont seem to have shown much leadership at all through it all. I dont know the breakdown of deaths to be honest. I would hope even with the removal of the 28 days and over rule that doctors still have the ability to overrule it if they feel the death was directly linked to the Covid19 the patient had. For example Kate Garraways husband has been covid free for a long time now but his body hasnt recovered, if he dies it surely has to go down as Covid related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: I keep hearing this "normal life". Life has no "normal ". It evolves to suit circumstances. There seems to be an uncomfortable truth starting to emerge. If people go out less, and we realise that you DON'T need to physically shunt millions of people around each day for work (thus needing feeding etc), then what economic activity is going to emerge instead? Could it be we are starting to realise how overpopulated we are to be scrambling to find worthwhile things for all the coffee shop, cafe and similar workers to do ? Struggling to grasp your tone? Are you saying its a good thing coffee shops are closing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 8 hours ago, rammieib said: No they are already leaving the house aren't they as the numbers are right down. However, surely you agree we can't screw the economy up for 1%? Put yourself in the shoes of one of the nearly one million people who have lost their job now and tell me what the answer should be? I responded as I did because your post seemed dismissive of the 1%. I think those people are important and should be protected where we can, but I also think we have a collective responsibility as a population to exercise extra caution on their behalf as we return to more normal activity, even if we as individuals personally are not at risk. I'm not very confident that some people get the need for that. However, I do agree with you that the country needs to function as an economy. I think we will have some sort of compromise situation for a long time to come and that some types of business and activity will find themselves in far less demand than they used to be. I couldn't care less about some of the things we may have to sacrifice (I am certain the world could survive without eyebrow threading, for example!) but other equally unessential activities, like my football experience, I am missing greatly. Each will have their own list of things that make their life enjoyable. If certain parts of the economy need a reset then maybe this is long overdue anyway. Much harder to reset people's values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, angieram said: I responded as I did because your post seemed dismissive of the 1%. I think those people are important and should be protected where we can, but I also think we have a collective responsibility as a population to exercise extra caution on their behalf as we return to more normal activity, even if we as individuals personally are not at risk. I'm not very confident that some people get the need for that. However, I do agree with you that the country needs to function as an economy. I think we will have some sort of compromise situation for a long time to come and that some types of business and activity will find themselves in far less demand than they used to be. I couldn't care less about some of the things we may have to sacrifice (I am certain the world could survive without eyebrow threading, for example!) but other equally unessential activities, like my football experience, I am missing greatly. Each will have their own list of things that make their life enjoyable. If certain parts of the economy need a reset then maybe this is long overdue anyway. Much harder to reset people's values. Not disagreeing, but don't we have a collective responsibility to people who have invested their live savings in an eyebrow threading business..or a soft play centre, or a cafe/sandwich shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Not disagreeing, but don't we have a collective responsibility to people who have invested their live savings in an eyebrow threading business..or a soft play centre, or a cafe/sandwich shop? Or a cobblers, or a blacksmiths, or a newspaper? Life evolves and what we spend our money on evolves with it. I am sure mail order companies, hand sanitiser manufacturers and mask makers companies are all doing just fine. As long as we have a free market economy there will always be winners and losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester40 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 minute ago, angieram said: Or a cobblers, or a blacksmiths, or a newspaper? Life evolves and what we spend our money on evolves with it. I am sure mail order companies, hand sanitiser manufacturers and mask makers companies are all doing just fine. As long as we have a free market economy there will always be winners and losers. Fair point. Can't disagree.. But that is as similarly a harsh outlook for me, as saying we can't protect 1% at the expense of everyone else. And the changes aren't positive. Working at home, mail order.. replacing health spas/gyms, holidays, places to meet, sports events, social events/live music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Why does life evolve, who makes it evolve, if it's apple, I'm out. In with the old, out with the new. There will always be rich people getting richer and poor people getting poorer. I'm happier with life balance, fairness, it,s not all about winning and losing, it's taking part that's important. Spend your money on health not showing off your wealth I say. Let's face it the youth of today struggle to cross the road without looking at their apple phones, just a zombie walking nation, missing out on the wonderful nature around us. So on that note as I sup my morning tea using the kids kindle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chester40 said: Fair point. Can't disagree.. But that is as similarly a harsh outlook for me, as saying we can't protect 1% at the expense of everyone else. And the changes aren't positive. Working at home, mail order.. replacing health spas/gyms, holidays, places to meet, sports events, social events/live music. Totally agree. I work in mental health. Have decided to retire because I think life is changing. I am trying to replace things with a different type of the same. More walking, outside exercise, outdoor meetings with friends, local cricket, a UK holiday planned in October, when I hope it will be quieter. I am not missing eating out at all. Am losing weight. Winter is going to be tough but my parents maybe ate out twice a year. Businesses go to the wall all the time but they have to adapt and change to survive. My friend runs a small fashion shop, she home delivered goods during lockdown, started making and selling fashion masks too and is doing ok. Our local pub has done takeout since they were allowed. Customers now back in - I have been once at a very quiet time - but still buying the takeout rather than spending my beer money in a supermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, angieram said: Totally agree. I work in mental health. Have decided to retire because I think life is changing. I am trying to replace things with a different type of the same. More walking, outside exercise, outdoor meetings with friends, local cricket, a UK holiday planned in October, when I hope it will be quieter. I am not missing eating out at all. Am losing weight. Winter is going to be tough but my parents maybe ate out twice a year. Businesses go to the wall all the time but they have to adapt and change to survive. My friend runs a small fashion shop, she home delivered goods during lockdown, started making and selling fashion masks too and is doing ok. Our local pub has done takeout since they were allowed. Customers now back in - I have been once at a very quiet time - but still buying the takeout rather than spending my beer money in a supermarket. We had a few meals from Morley Hayes delivered during lockdown. I was surprised that more businesses didnt look at take out/delivery. Although I didnt go a neighbour of mine went regularly to get take out beer from the holly bush in Milford. He told me that despite obviously selling it cheaper the landlord was turning a really good profit because of the reduced overheads, good on them I say. Surely a lot of pubs etc had the same opportunity but chose not to take it for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 19 hours ago, TexasRam said: Fair enough, but to me it’s a big difference because dying of it is extremely different to dying having it. You could have it, feel perfectly well but die of a heart attack because of your poor diet etc (probably not a good example). I’ve read and heard anecdotal evidence that the latter would be recorded in the Covid death data. Maybe my view is also tainted as I don’t know of anyone who’s actually had it (luckily I guess) By saying it "makes little difference to me", I meant 50k-ish extra people died regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 anyway never mind tens of thousands dead and a million unemployed, Holly Willoughby has had to cut short her 7 week holiday to Portugal so she can quarantine... hope she will be ok, if everyone could perhaps say a little prayer before bed.. https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/16/holly-willoughby-forced-quarantine-cuts-holiday-short-amid-travel-restrictions-13135095/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Paul71 said: anyway never mind tens of thousands dead and a million unemployed, Holly Willoughby has had to cut short her 7 week holiday to Portugal so she can quarantine... hope she will be ok, if everyone could perhaps say a little prayer before bed.. https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/16/holly-willoughby-forced-quarantine-cuts-holiday-short-amid-travel-restrictions-13135095/ That is a quality article. Made me laugh a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: By saying it "makes little difference to me", I meant 50k-ish extra people died regardless. Oh, I guess my point is it isn’t 50k-Ish extra deaths, as a proportion unfortunately and sadly died of other issues but have been reported under Covid. So makes a big difference with the stance and actions taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfred84 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 The difference is about 5k lower according to ons i think so we still have one of the biggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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