Coronavirus

[RamNut]

Quote

5. I have already self- isolated for 7 days and been at work for a week, I have developed similar symptoms again, do I need to isolate again?

If you develop symptoms after the normal isolation periods, we would normally assume that this is a new infection and you will need to start the isolation process again unless you tested positive for COVID-19 previously. Please contact the Centralised Absence Reporting Line on 01752430000.

....in which case, there is no immunity.
 

https://www.plymouthhospitals.nhs.uk/covid-19-advice-for-staff

[alexxxxx]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not sure if everyone would agree or not, but I think population density is a factor in the spread of the disease.

So a quick stat that I found quite interesting:-

UK population density 727 per sq km - 32k deaths

Italy population density 206 per sq km - 30k deaths

France population density 117 per sq km - 26k deaths

Spain population density 91 per sq km - 26k deaths

 

UK population density is not 727 per sqkm, England is only 400 odd. Netherlands is nearly 500. 

I'm not sure there's a clear link between density and infection rate. 

 

[Angry Ram]

9 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Wrong. France 84% of net salary i believe. Chomage partiel as it is called allows staff to be rotated and has been in place for years. They did not need to come up with a scheme to protect workers.

That’s correct, I have direct contact with the French system and it’s very good. You can even have staff working for xxx hours per week at full rate and then claim the balance. Our system is good but not as flexible.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

Not sure that your numbers are correct.

 

Not my numbers.

Taken from:-

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Correct as at yesterday 

[alexxxxx]

NZ reopening schools, restaurants, cinemas this week. Looks like they've almost eradicated it completely. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

UK population density is not 727 per sqkm, England is only 400 odd. Netherlands is nearly 500. 

I'm not sure there's a clear link between density and infection rate. 

 

Yes, sorry, you are correct, I was looking at per sq mi.

The correct population density of the uk is 281 per sq km

[1967Ram]

19 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

UK population density is not 727 per sqkm, England is only 400 odd. Netherlands is nearly 500. 

I'm not sure there's a clear link between density and infection rate. 

 

You are right, it's not 727 per square km.

The population density in the United Kingdom is 281 per Km2 (727 people per mi2). https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/ (2020)

There are 33 1km² areas across Europe with a population of 40,000 or more: 23 are in Spain, and ten are in France. England's most densely populated km², in West London, has just over 20,000 people in it. Globally, the highest figure is close to 200,000, in Dhaka, Bangladesh. 

https://theconversation.com/think-your-country-is-crowded-these-maps-reveal-the-truth-about-population-density-across-europe-90345 (2016)

[Norman]

6 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

NZ reopening schools, restaurants, cinemas this week. Looks like they've almost eradicated it completely. 

I'm going to put it out there.... I don't think that is a good thing. Not in the long run economically. 

[Tamworthram]

10 hours ago, Needlesh said:

Public gatherings.

I very, very much doubt that plod is going to be putting his woo-woos on if you take the grandkids round to see grandma and sit apart in the garden for a cuppa.

Use our brains a bit and we'll be fine.

I agree. I was just outlining the actual restrictions. I’m also not sure back gardens technically count now.

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

....in which case, there is no immunity.
 

https://www.plymouthhospitals.nhs.uk/covid-19-advice-for-staff

It doesn't suggest that at all. It's well known that symptoms recede and then come back in some people.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

....in which case, there is no immunity.
 

https://www.plymouthhospitals.nhs.uk/covid-19-advice-for-staff

Or it could be the person thought they had the virus on one of the occasions (or both) but they didn’t. There are a lot of symptoms that are present with other conditions and, it’s natural to fear that you may have the virus when maybe you don’t.

There simply isn’t enough detail in this scenario to assume no immunity.

Also, aren’t you meant to self isolate for two weeks? What were they doing only self isolating for a week?

[RamNut]

39 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not my numbers.

Taken from:-

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Correct as at yesterday 

Well if it has jumped that much in just a couple of weeks, then there is your answer.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

17 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Or it could be the person thought they had the virus on one of the occasions (or both) but they didn’t. There are a lot of symptoms that are present with other conditions and, it’s natural to fear that you may have the virus when maybe you don’t.

There simply isn’t enough detail in this scenario to assume no immunity.

Also, aren’t you meant to self isolate for two weeks? What were they doing only self isolating for a week?

On the subject of isolating for two weeks. My uncle had the virus and was hospitalised, but not in an ICU. After his condition started to improve and he went home his employer who is a well known retail brand told him to report back in within 7 days. When my uncle pressed them on isolating for longer because he still had symptoms he was told that if he wasn't back at work within 7 days he would face disciplinary action. 

I doubt that is the policy of the company and is likely just terrible management at a lower level, but it shows what a lot of people are up against with this and why it is difficult. 

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

On the subject of isolating for two weeks. My uncle had the virus and was hospitalised, but not in an ICU. After his condition started to improve and he went home his employer who is a well known retail brand told him to report back in within 7 days. When my uncle pressed them on isolating for longer because he still had symptoms he was told that if he wasn't back at work within 7 days he would face disciplinary action. 

I doubt that is the policy of the company and is likely just terrible management at a lower level, but it shows what a lot of people are up against with this and why it is difficult. 

Probably indicative of the culture within the company though. No doubt senior management are very hard on sickness records, making middle managers feel pressurised into forcing sick people to work. That culture starts at the top - it's the same at my place of work. Absence is always a disciplinary issue.

[RamNut]

44 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Or it could be the person thought they had the virus on one of the occasions (or both) but they didn’t. There are a lot of symptoms that are present with other conditions and, it’s natural to fear that you may have the virus when maybe you don’t.

There simply isn’t enough detail in this scenario to assume no immunity.

Also, aren’t you meant to self isolate for two weeks? What were they doing only self isolating for a week?

It was the fact that the hospital considers that to be possible evidence for a second infection that raised my eyebrows. That is, they think a second infection IS possible.

as for the 1 week or two week isolation, the U.K. advice is to isolate for 7 days if you have symptoms and for 14 days if a family member has been showing symptoms. In contrast to the U.K. 7 days, the WHO guidance is for 14 days. I am struggling to believe that 7 days is enough. But how long is someone infectious for?

for days 0-5 you will be asymptomatic but potentially infectious, and therefore will not be self-isolating, and a danger to others. At this stage there would be no reason to test.

for days 6-12 you will have symptoms and be infectious and therefore hopefully self-isolating and a danger to others. At this stage a pcr test should work. So should the ig m antibody test.

thereafter you are supposedly asymptomatic and recovered and supposedly not infectious. The pcr test should be negative. The antibody ig g test should be increasingly likely to work.

It all seems a bit hopeful, and idealised. 

I am also beginning to wonder what the point of the pcr test is? A negative test could get someone back to work, but there are apparently 30% false negatives due to the difficulties with swabbing correctly, and it takes so long to get the results that according to these timeframes, you should be at least half way to recovery by the time the results arrive.

[Rev]

38 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Or it could be the person thought they had the virus on one of the occasions (or both) but they didn’t. There are a lot of symptoms that are present with other conditions and, it’s natural to fear that you may have the virus when maybe you don’t.

There simply isn’t enough detail in this scenario to assume no immunity.

Also, aren’t you meant to self isolate for two weeks? What were they doing only self isolating for a week?

Isn't it if you think you have it, isolate for a week while other members of the household isolate for 2?

Presumably to give time for symptoms to show or not in the others.

[Ghost of Clough]

10 minutes ago, RamNut said:

It was the fact that the hospital considers that to be possible evidence for a second infection that raised my eyebrows. That is, they think a second infection IS possible.

That isn't anything new, is it? It's been a belief for a long time that some people could get it a second time. Chickenpox is a comparable example. The only question is how long typical immunity lasts

[RamNut]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

That isn't anything new, is it? It's been a belief for a long time that some people could get it a second time. Chickenpox is a comparable example. The only question is how long typical immunity lasts

It’s also possible that its the same infection and that 7 days isolation wasn’t long enough.

[Tamworthram]

59 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Isn't it if you think you have it, isolate for a week while other members of the household isolate for 2?

Presumably to give time for symptoms to show or not in the others.

Actually you may be right.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not my numbers.

Taken from:-

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Correct as at yesterday 

The population density of the United Kingdom is 272 people per square Km, not 727. I think that somebody was typing too fast.