May Contain Nuts Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: I can see something along the lines of 'We recognise the due diligence taken by Derby County however the rules are the rules and a penalty of X is applied, however in light of the due diligence taken this will be suspended/reduced etc etc, we have also reminded the EFL of their responsibilities and they have assured us they are instigating a thorough review of procedures'. Except when there's so much open to interpretation, the rules aren't the rules, they're just guidance and as such, we haven't even broken any rules to be punished for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I think you only have to look at the tv deals the EFL negotiate to realise they haven’t got a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramboy63 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Curtains said: The only problem is the EFL are the runners of the League and have ultimate power on this. 4 minutes ago, Curtains said: The only problem is the EFL are the runners of the League and have ultimate power on this. Yes correct you are and that is what concerning they certainly have a bee in there bonnet about something and surely unless they were 100% sure there was some wrong doing they would of not brought charges forward surely. Lets hope Mel as this all in hand as this could turn in to a right disaster and relegation if we are not careful,i dont agree with points deductions mid season if it turns out to be the case as its totally unfair and should be from the start of the following season to give teams not just Derby a chance to retrieve the situation. Even if its proved we did no wrong the EFL will make sure we pay in some way or other like long trips away mid week and the worst referees possible for our games etc you can just see it happening. These could be hard times for us guys get your tin hats ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: The thought did just occur to me that maybe the EFL are trying to stick something onto us so that they can then tell Steve Gibson to drop his suit against the league and instead file against DCFC? This is the road I’m going down an’ all, I can’t fathom the EPL’s apparent compulsion to placate Middlesbrough/ Gibson. Has Gibson got them bang to rights about something ? ? Changing the subject, SSN are reporting Marriott’s still unavailable. Where’s that rolls eyes emoji? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Dear EFL, I am writing to you to offer my legal services regarding the administration of Financial Fair Play and Profit and Sustainability regulations. I have no formal training in these issues, no recognised professional competence or experience. On this basis I feel I will integrate seamlessly with your current team. I am quite pompous and frequently referred to as an arse. As these are seemingly key skill sets in your organisation I believe I will add substantial value to the core mission of the EFL. My salary expectations are "ludicrous" and I will expect to spend most of my time doing other things anyway. I await your confirmation of my employment, Regards, Radioactivewaste Dear Mr radioactivewaste Thank you for your enquiry regarding a position within our organisation, unfortunately you seem to be way over qualified to join us. Yours incompetently EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Curtains said: The only problem is the EFL are the runners of the League and have ultimate power on this. Sort of. There’s the law as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 26 minutes ago, Abu Derby said: It appears that the elf is playing hardball these days look at Bolton, and even worse Bury. if this fails they are going to lose all credibility - but surely they’ve been through everything with a fine tooth comb. That’s ok as I’ve every confidence that the tooth comb Mel & Stephen Pearce have used to go through their processes & paperwork is much finer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Donny Ram said: Arguing the EFL representative acted ultra vires in this instance is a nonsense Ramnut. This must have been referred to the EFLs financial approval team and not just the cleaner! Can you seriously see Mel just ringing anyone and saying, “oh, that’s alright then”. Totally agree that it could be a face saving process but Derby have taken fair and reasonable steps to ensure compliance with EFL rules and more importantly financial accounting process that have been audited and signed off. The EFL cannot argue that an employee, if it was someone in their financial or audit team, acted beyond their powers nor can they retrospectively change their rules and apply sanction — but I bet they try.... this is going to be a long drawn out process that won’t be resolved this season me thinks. In the meantime, let’s all get behind the team, management and owner... COYR I never used the phrase ultra vires. simply that they may argue that any such discussion was outside the approval process, which follows full submission of documentation. it happens all the time in seeking planning approval under the town and country planning act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, ramboy63 said: Yes correct you are and that is what concerning they certainly have a bee in there bonnet about something and surely unless they were 100% sure there was some wrong doing they would of not brought charges forward surely. Lets hope Mel as this all in hand as this could turn in to a right disaster and relegation if we are not careful,i dont agree with points deductions mid season if it turns out to be the case as its totally unfair and should be from the start of the following season to give teams not just Derby a chance to retrieve the situation. Even if its proved we did no wrong the EFL will make sure we pay in some way or other like long trips away mid week and the worst referees possible for our games etc you can just see it happening. These could be hard times for us guys get your tin hats ready! It doesn’t do to fall out with your arbiters that’s all I’m saying. Points deduction can do the damage be we get to appeal and seek damages etc. Sheff U getting relegated and West Ham staying up was a point in question. West Ham didn’t suffer relegation but Sheff U did ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mihangel Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, RandomAccessMemory said: It was a fantastic statement by the club. I think the most pertinent part is the repeated mention of 'EFL Executive', if you read the FFP/P&S rules it makes 33 references to 'the Executive'. https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/ Important part from the rules: It sounds like thats exactly what happened here? Quite - It's entirely normal for any governing body or regulator to discuss, advise or even negotiate on such matters before they are decided. It's entirely NOT normal for them to go through that process and then decide there was a mistake and then to launch proceedings. The only exception I can think of would be where there has been dishonestly in the process but that doesn't appear to be the case. As things stand, I think the club are in a strong position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 No matter what the outcome, if guilty I'm sure Derby will appeal it. The action taken by the EFL over this , the statement from dcfc will no doubt change football in the lower leagues, a big own goal has been scored by the EFL by admitting a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Fast forward to May 2020. Derby finish mid table but more than 9 points above the relegation zone: EFL: "listen Mel old chap. We've cocked up good and proper here. We need to safe face and close the loophole for other clubs. How about we do a deal? We'll deduct you 9 points but it won't actually have any effect. In recognition of the fact you tried to act in good faith, we'll not fine you or ban you from signing players" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Ramtastic ones said: Song for the day, Bob marley's don't worry.. Derby don't worry 'bout a thing 'cos Mel the king's gonna make it alright! call me... at 15:05... and I'll get the ball rolling. That tune is my ringtone! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 The only thing that worries me is , if the tax office makes a mistake and you under pay you still have to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, Curtains said: It doesn’t do to fall out with your arbiters that’s all I’m saying. Points deduction can do the damage be we get to appeal and seek damages etc. Sheff U getting relegated and West Ham staying up was a point in question. West Ham didn’t suffer relegation but Sheff U did ! Not unless you win and change your arbiters for good!!! If the EFL are proved to have made a right royal duck up of this, as other have suggested, it could be the end of them in their current guide\format ...... breakaways, no confidence votes or PL2 are distinct possibilities .... may appear far fetched to some but not necessarily so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, GenBr said: What are the clear signs in our case then? The EFL rules don't contain anything to inform us. If anything the signs on the parking space are telling us the opposite and that is totally fine to park where we want. Dunno. I’ve seen it on here that a possible argument on there part might be that it’s up to us to interpret the rules correctly, and check that the information we get is correct. If we end up on the wrong side of the rules then it’s ultimately us on the wring side, it’s us that has to face the consequences. like if you killed someone, but it’s not really your fault vos that other guy told you it would be okay. But you’re still the one that has to do the time. It’s up to you to realise the other guy is an idiot that doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: Having gone down this route surely the EFL has no option but to look at practices of other clubs. Leeds, despite their fans protestations, do not own Elland Road, it is owned by a company owned by their owner just as we have, likewise Forest rent from the Council. Why wasn't the Leeds deal investigated when the owner purchased the ground? Probably because it didnt actually put money into the accounts as a lump sum but it was clearly done that way for finance gain. Surely this should be investigated, how much do clubs like this pay to lease/rent, is it comparable with what other clubs have to pay for the mortgage/maintenance etc on their own stadiums. It may well be that Forest pay several million a year to rent the ground, and if so fair enough, I do always seem to recall it was something stupid like £1 but that could just be chinese whispers, but if it is just a nominal amount this has to be addressed too. Several red dog followers I know have stated frequently that their rent is £1 a year on a 100 year lease 1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Wonder who is going to be on the panel? "An independent panel comprised of Steve Gibson, Neil Warnock, 2 randomly selected posters from LTLF forum and the ghost of Don Revie" Actually Neil Warnock talks a lot of sense but usually when he isn’t under contract to a club 1 hour ago, I Bought the Tee Shirt said: Weren't Sheff Utd awarded some loot after being relegated from the Prem?, Tevez scored for West Ham keeping them up when he shouldn't have played...this took an age to sort out if memory serves me right. Sheffield United were relegated by the premier league in that situation but were able to sue West Ham United and received £5 million several years later which the owner stuck in a large pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 42 minutes ago, ramboy63 said: ...Even if its proved we did no wrong the EFL will make sure we pay in some way or other like long trips away mid week and the worst referees possible for our games etc you can just see it happening. That's just ridiculous! Have you any idea how difficult it would be to manipulate the fixtures for not just one, but effectively all 24 teams. You'd need to be able to use a computer and everyfink! Probably need to be good at sums and stuff too! It ain't gonna happen! Oh... and we already get those refs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: Not the best analogy, if you don't mind me saying. In Derby's case, there are no signs for Derby to have noticed, and there was no fire engine. I'll give you the bit about the parking attendant not knowing what he was talking about, though! ? Not exactly clear signs, but I think the EFL will day that we should have read the rules and used our psychic powers to interpret them correctly. The fire engine is the fact that we’ve set a bit of a trend now. So this isn’t a victimless crime, we’ve actually set a bit of a precedent here that has caused ripples and further issues. So that might count against us. See, I think out these analogies, they’re not just thrown together on the spur of the moment. The main thing, though, is that I suspect we may have taken our advice from the Saturday girl who just happened to be manning the phones on the day we asked the question. Like we said ‘can we do this.’ And the janitor at the EFL said, ‘yeah, makes sense to me, but...’ ’la la la, we’re not listening, you said it’s okay, you’re from the EFL, that’ll do for us.’ I actually trust that we’ve done a bit more due diligence than that, but I can see that being the EFL’s argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: ...like if you killed someone, but it’s not really your fault vos that other guy told you it would be okay. But you’re still the one that has to do the time. It’s up to you to realise the other guy is an idiot that doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Yes...Yes... it's exactly like this! Analogy of the day! ...said nobody... ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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