win rates

[Gritstone Ram]

7 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

I understand and appreciate all the criticisms. They're not misplaced.

But what manager could do better with the players available to him at the moment? Someone, please, name one. I'm all ears.

These squad is very, very poor and BIG questions need to be asked of the people behind our recruitment.

Would you have said a similar thing when NC was in charge with the team he had assembled. Then bring in Mac 1 and release the potential. We nearly and should have gone up.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

not having this. The squad that Mac1 inherited was deemed as the reason Nigel Clough couldn't get us playing well. All Mac1 did was bring in Dawkins and bin off Smith. Not saying you defended Clough with that, but plenty blamed quality of squad.

For me, this regime feels a little too Nigel-esque. Not playing hard enough to actually grab the win.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. No argument that Mac got the team playing at a different level to Nigel. The first line of my post pays homage to that and I'm not belittling what he achieved either. What I would say is that by your own assertion, he only brought in Dawkins (Eustace as a CDM too) which is why I believe he had a stronger squad. Plenty may have blamed the quality of Clough's squad but quite a few also saw the rudiments of a strong side. 

My point is not to belittle Mac's achievements but to ask whether the squad Cocu has inherited (also taking into account injuries etc) is remotely of the same quality. I don't believe it's even close. Put simply, would any of the current squad be a certain starter in the Mac1 team and equally, would Mac be certain to get the current squad to Wembley? 

[LeedsCityRam]

11 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Why did we sack Mac 2 again?

Because the team looked utterly clueless towards the end of his second spell culminating in a 0-3 panning at Brighton, every bit as grim as anything we've seen in recent years. It was clear then (as now) that we needed a clear out but Morris trusted Rowett to do that rather than McClaren, who is clearly gifted with an ready made talented and settled squad but distinctly ordinary when he inherits a poor situation and has to build.

And for that reason, bringing him back with the club in this situation would be madness. This squad needs work, a lot of work.

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, LeedsCityRam said:

rather than McClaren, who is clearly gifted with an ready made talented and settled squad but distinctly ordinary when he inherits a poor situation and has to build

pretty sure he inherited bottom half teams TWICE and got both into the play-off places within 2-3 months. 

[Andicis]

4 hours ago, Alpha said:

Mac 2 lost a lot of support when we slipped down the league a bit. No real acknowledgement that when he took over we were holding it up. 

Nobody gave Mac any of the same excuses Cocu is getting. It wasn't Mac's team, he hadn't enough time to do what he wanted, yet he was still preemptively sacked. Double standards between the way the two have been treated is massive. 

[loweman2]

12 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Why are we blaming the players?

Cocu changed system and personnel yet again tonight.

Imagine a band going on a 46 leg world tour.

For it to go smoothly, you need some semblance of consistency and organisation. Songs, band members, roles, for example.

If the band changed members one night after the other, would it have an effect? If the setlist changed one night after the other, would it have an effect? If each member had to do different roles from show to show, would it have an effect? Of course it all would.

Everyone blames the players, but Cocu’s tinkering is agonising.

You are just left thinking - who is the lead singer? Who is on bass? Where did the guy playing the accordion come from?

Total confusion for players and fans alike.

you are obviously to young to remember the Sex Pistols !

chaos but they changed popular music forever !

[LeedsCityRam]

7 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

pretty sure he inherited bottom half teams TWICE and got both into the play-off places within 2-3 months. 

And was nowhere near them when he was sacked the second time. Not entirely his fault, the squad was unbalanced but like I said, he wasnt trusted to rebuild.

Whether you accept it or not, the squad he inherited first time around was a key ingredient in his success. No other Derby manager has had that luxury since we came down, ergo his win rate.

[Mostyn6]

26 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

And was nowhere near them when he was sacked the second time. Not entirely his fault, the squad was unbalanced but like I said, he wasnt trusted to rebuild.

Whether you accept it or not, the squad he inherited first time around was a key ingredient in his success. No other Derby manager has had that luxury since we came down, ergo his win rate.

nowhere near? pretty sure he was about 4 points off a play off place.

[LeedsCityRam]

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

nowhere near? pretty sure he was about 4 points off a play off place.

9 points off a playoff spot with 8 games left to play. We were 10th.

[Mostyn6]

11 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

9 points off a playoff spot with 8 games left to play. We were 10th.

and how far off were we when he arrived?

[GenBr]

Mac1 has the highest win rate of any manager we've ever had in our history except 1 guy who only managed us for 11 games.

I'm not sure how much you can really read into win rate percentages. We were champions of england twice with a lower win percentage than Mac1

[LeedsCityRam]

33 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

and how far off were we when he arrived?

You're moving the goalposts. You gave him credit for getting us into the playoff places in both spells here...my point was second time round that's misleading as we were nowhere near the playoffs when he left. Rowett had us 2nd at one point, as did Lampard...were we in the running for automatic promotion those years?

[Ambitious]

14 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

I don’t think we’ve had a worst squad than we’ve got now since we were relegated in 2008. 
I think that helps Cocu when looking at win rates. 

Agreed. Subjectively speaking, if I was tasked by Millwall to draw a line on the ability of Derby players then I could comfortably point to a number of areas to target. Players in the line up that would struggle to make a positive impact in League One. 

The truth is that now Keogh isn't here - we don't have one player that you can count on to consistently turn up and perform at Championship level. Bogle, Holmes & Bielik are the closest to the line, but they're all still 70% in terms of their performances. Martin isn't far away now he's seeing more game time. I don't mean good performances either, I just mean not a bad performance. We seem to have a lot of players with a very low floor, even if their ceiling is quite high - Lawrence, Marriott, Waghorn. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

14 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

I want Daz waz back Check out that win rate 

dazzle wazinhio

I'm not saying I want him as our manager, but it's criminal how he's seen as a clown thanks to two games, one of which was an absolute freak.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

I think Rowett would have got us up had he not ducked off.

[Andicis]

Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I think Rowett would have got us up had he not ducked off.

Really? He had bought a bunch of aging crap that was only getting worse over time, he just had the same miserable game plan of lump the ball into the box towards Cameron Jerome. I think he would have taken us even further backwards. The man sold Hughes for 4 million, not sure he had any idea what he was doing.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

20 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Really? He had bought a bunch of aging crap that was only getting worse over time, he just had the same miserable game plan of lump the ball into the box towards Cameron Jerome. I think he would have taken us even further backwards. The man sold Hughes for 4 million, not sure he had any idea what he was doing.

I'm a Rowett apologist. I don't think he would have kept buying old players, and his game plan was effective enough to get us into the play offs.

Maybe it's because I have great memories of starting to regularly go on away days, having just turned 18, as we were flying up the league table. By the time we started to slide, I had temporarily quit the forum to focus on A-Levels, so I missed a lot of the fan negativity.

[Andicis]

36 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'm a Rowett apologist. I don't think he would have kept buying old players, and his game plan was effective enough to get us into the play offs.

Maybe it's because I have great memories of starting to regularly go on away days, having just turned 18, as we were flying up the league table. By the time we started to slide, I had temporarily quit the forum to focus on A-Levels, so I missed a lot of the fan negativity.

Yeah, think you might have missed out on the negativity towards the end of those times. I hated Rowett. I'll never forgive him for selling Hughes and I hated his style of play.

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, GenBr said:

Mac1 has the highest win rate of any manager we've ever had in our history except 1 guy who only managed us for 11 games.

I'm not sure how much you can really read into win rate percentages. We were champions of england twice with a lower win percentage than Mac1

Brian Clough, the poor man's Mac1. Right?! ?

[YorkshireRam]

18 hours ago, wixman1884 said:

Posted this in the match thread when we were losing, but felt it warranted some discussion on it's own.

Incredible how far backwards we've gone over the last 5 years. Millions and millions later...

Mac1 win rate = 53.68%
Clement = 42.42%
Wassall = 50%
Pearson = 28.57%
Mac2 = 45.83%
Rowett = 43.33%
Lampard = 42.10%
Cocu = 31.8%

Hindsight is 20/20, but we've made some atrocious appointments over the last few years. The higher win rates here also happened to be by far the best football as well. 

Mac 3 anyone? ?

And you've aptly demonstrated the dangers of reading too much into statistics there. According to those, Darren Wassall is the 2nd best manager on the list and therefore a better manager than Brian Clough (47.7%)...