win rates

[wixman1884]

Posted this in the match thread when we were losing, but felt it warranted some discussion on it's own.

Incredible how far backwards we've gone over the last 5 years. Millions and millions later...

Mac1 win rate = 53.68%
Clement = 42.42%
Wassall = 50%
Pearson = 28.57%
Mac2 = 45.83%
Rowett = 43.33%
Lampard = 42.10%
Cocu = 31.8%

Hindsight is 20/20, but we've made some atrocious appointments over the last few years. The higher win rates here also happened to be by far the best football as well. 

Mac 3 anyone? ?

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, wixman1884 said:

Mac 3 anyone? ?

In a heartbeat. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

5 minutes ago, wixman1884 said:

Posted this in the match thread when we were losing, but felt it warranted some discussion on it's own.

Incredible how far backwards we've gone over the last 5 years. Millions and millions later...

Mac1 win rate = 53.68%
Clement = 42.42%
Wassall = 50%
Pearson = 28.57%
Mac2 = 45.83%
Rowett = 43.33%
Lampard = 42.10%
Cocu = 31.8%

Hindsight is 20/20, but we've made some atrocious appointments over the last few years. The higher win rates here also happened to be by far the best football as well. 

Mac 3 anyone? ?

Why did we sack Mac 2 again?

[SaintRam]

Just now, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Why did we sack Mac 2 again?

Two reasons.

One) Rowett became available.

Two) Our form became inconsistent and our performances a tad sluggish, and great swathes of our fanbase demand decisive action when that happens, so that we stop a slide before it begins.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Why did we sack Mac 2 again?

Cos he had a jolly laugh with Hughton when it was obvious how good they were. Mel never wanted him back.

[NottsRam77]

33 minutes ago, wixman1884 said:

Posted this in the match thread when we were losing, but felt it warranted some discussion on it's own.

Incredible how far backwards we've gone over the last 5 years. Millions and millions later...

Mac1 win rate = 53.68%
Clement = 42.42%
Wassall = 50%
Pearson = 28.57%
Mac2 = 45.83%
Rowett = 43.33%
Lampard = 42.10%
Cocu = 31.8%

Hindsight is 20/20, but we've made some atrocious appointments over the last few years. The higher win rates here also happened to be by far the best football as well. 

Mac 3 anyone? ?

I want Daz waz back Check out that win rate 

dazzle wazinhio

[IlsonDerby]

I don’t think we’ve had a worst squad than we’ve got now since we were relegated in 2008. 
I think that helps Cocu when looking at win rates. 

[Nuwtfly]

I understand and appreciate all the criticisms. They're not misplaced.

But what manager could do better with the players available to him at the moment? Someone, please, name one. I'm all ears.

These squad is very, very poor and BIG questions need to be asked of the people behind our recruitment.

[Comrade 86]

Loved Mac1 but if you are going to compare win rates then you need to compare the respective squads too. Chris Martin aside, and we should credit Cocu for not shipping him out like half of that list, only Bogle and Bielik would get anywhere near the team he had at his disposal and one of them is struggling for form, the other is out injured.

All inherited far stronger squads than Cocu, even Lamps had Mount, Fiks and WIlson. If Cocu could play just Jeff and WIll either side of Bielik we'd see some very different numbers.

[Jourdan]

Why are we blaming the players?

Cocu changed system and personnel yet again tonight.

Imagine a band going on a 46 leg world tour.

For it to go smoothly, you need some semblance of consistency and organisation. Songs, band members, roles, for example.

If the band changed members one night after the other, would it have an effect? If the setlist changed one night after the other, would it have an effect? If each member had to do different roles from show to show, would it have an effect? Of course it all would.

Everyone blames the players, but Cocu’s tinkering is agonising.

You are just left thinking - who is the lead singer? Who is on bass? Where did the guy playing the accordion come from?

Total confusion for players and fans alike.

[wixman1884]

I wasn't posting this to have a pop at Cocu - he's dealing with the accumulated mess of all the changes over the years. 

One of the more interesting stats for me was Lampard vs Rowett/Clement.

The end of last season was pretty exciting but large parts of the season were pretty dross and the odd Wilson wonder goal papered over some pretty horrible performances. 

That, and sacking Mac 2 for Rowett was a horrendous decision.

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Why are we blaming the players?

 

Nobody. What folk are saying is that this is a weak squad compared to those the listed managers had at their disposal. Even with a weak squad there was a pretty marked difference in terms of effort at least between the 1st and 2nd halves but midfield is the engine room and creative source and ours is weak as hell right now. That wasn't the case with the likes of Thorne, Hughes, Hendrick or a prime Bryso to choose from. You've posted elsewhere that Cocu should have the current team in the top 6. Other folk don't agree, myself included.

[Comrade 86]

12 minutes ago, wixman1884 said:

I wasn't posting this to have a pop at Cocu - he's dealing with the accumulated mess of all the changes over the years. 

One of the more interesting stats for me was Lampard vs Rowett/Clement.

The end of last season was pretty exciting but large parts of the season were pretty dross and the odd Wilson wonder goal papered over some pretty horrible performances. 

That, and sacking Mac 2 for Rowett was a horrendous decision.

Not sure anyone's suggested that you are bud.  You've posted some stats and invited comment and folk are simply responding with their thinking, aren't they? 

[Millenniumram]

54 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I understand and appreciate all the criticisms. They're not misplaced.

But what manager could do better with the players available to him at the moment? Someone, please, name one. I'm all ears.

These squad is very, very poor and BIG questions need to be asked of the people behind our recruitment.

I think every single other manager on that list would have this team higher than 16th - other than the ostrich, of course. And that’s damning for Cocu, cause a few of them aren’t very good.

But if he goes, so does all the recruitment team. Every single year our squad gets worse and worse - that is a major contributor to the sliding scale of those win percentages. The manager choices have been very poor, but the recruitment has been absolutely criminal.

[Jourdan]

8 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Nobody. What folk are saying is that this is a weak squad compared to those the listed managers had at their disposal. Even with a weak squad there was a pretty marked difference in terms of effort at least between the 1st and 2nd halves but midfield is the engine room and creative source and ours is weak as hell right now. That wasn't the case with the likes of Thorne, Hughes, Hendrick or a prime Bryso to choose from. You've posted elsewhere that Cocu should have the current team in the top 6. Other folk don't agree, myself included.

I see that, but you could use that defence for every manager we’ve ever had.

If Pearson had player X, Y, Z, he would have been a riproaring success.

Is our squad the strongest it’s ever been? No. Is this division the strongest it’s ever been? Also no.

My point is that people are quick to say the squad is poor and use it as a defence for Cocu, when there is just as much if not more evidence to say that it is actually the squad that is being poorly managed and someone else could get more out of them.

I accept that other fans don’t think these players are good enough. 

But hand on heart, do you look at the quality of the sides in the division and think 16th is our rightful place?

[wixman1884]

I also think it's hard to say who has the better/worse squad, as management teams are responsible for getting the best out of players and assisting their development. It's easy to say our 13/14 squad was significantly better than what we have now, but they were part of a cohesive settled system they were able to grow into and thrive in. Vydra looked like league 1 material under mac2, then went onto win the golden boot the following year.

There's so many variables involved that I don't think it's fair to say Mac1 had the best squad and Cocu has the worst. 

[Reggie Greenwood]

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Why are we blaming the players?

Cocu changed system and personnel yet again tonight.

Imagine a band going on a 46 leg world tour.

For it to go smoothly, you need some semblance of consistency and organisation. Songs, band members, roles, for example.

If the band changed members one night after the other, would it have an effect? If the setlist changed one night after the other, would it have an effect? If each member had to do different roles from show to show, would it have an effect? Of course it all would.

Everyone blames the players, but Cocu’s tinkering is agonising.

You are just left thinking - who is the lead singer? Who is on bass? Where did the guy playing the accordion come from?

Total confusion for players and fans alike.

So you ignore having to play a second string midfield and defence due to injuries , sacking and some players being so far out of form they have rendered themselves unpickable. No doubt Wisdom not fit enough yet to play  3 games on the trot. Cocu is being forced into tinkering I doubt he wants to do. 

[Jourdan]

20 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

So you ignore having to play a second string midfield and defence due to injuries , sacking and some players being so far out of form they have rendered themselves unpickable. No doubt Wisdom not fit enough yet to play  3 games on the trot. Cocu is being forced into tinkering I doubt he wants to do. 

I am not ignoring the injuries at all.

Like I said in another post, the injury situation has been brutal.

But since Middlesbrough at home:

We have changed the goalkeeper (Roos for Hamer)

We have changed left backs (Malone for Lowe, and Lowe for Malone)

Wisdom and Dowell have been in the side and now find themselves out of the side again.

Marriott and Waghorn have been in the side and then out the side, rinse and repeat.

Even our most influential player Chris Martin has been in, out, and then in again.

Cocu is choosing to tinker!

[Mostyn6]

7 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Loved Mac1 but if you are going to compare win rates then you need to compare the respective squads too. Chris Martin aside, and we should credit Cocu for not shipping him out like half of that list, only Bogle and Bielik would get anywhere near the team he had at his disposal and one of them is struggling for form, the other is out injured.

All inherited far stronger squads than Cocu, even Lamps had Mount, Fiks and WIlson. If Cocu could play just Jeff and WIll either side of Bielik we'd see some very different numbers.

not having this. The squad that Mac1 inherited was deemed as the reason Nigel Clough couldn't get us playing well. All Mac1 did was bring in Dawkins and bin off Smith. Not saying you defended Clough with that, but plenty blamed quality of squad.

For me, this regime feels a little too Nigel-esque. Not playing hard enough to actually grab the win.

[Alph]

Mac 2 lost a lot of support when we slipped down the league a bit. No real acknowledgement that when he took over we were holding it up.