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A case for treading water

Gritty

By Gritty
in Derby County Forum

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ramsbottom

ramsbottom

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Posted

The problem with treading water and trying to develop a team that 'comes of age' in a couple of seasons time is that the more rabid, entitled members of our fan base won't buy into it.  The fantastic support we had during the Nigel years has morphed into the kind of 'We want it now!" mentality those mongs up the road used to have under Uncle Fawaz (ahhhh, remember those good ol' days).  With continued under par performances & results the public will vote with their restless feet, and crowds will drop along with revenue...  

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Curtains

Curtains

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3 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

The problem with treading water and trying to develop a team that 'comes of age' in a couple of seasons time is that the more rabid, entitled members of our fan base won't buy into it.  The fantastic support we had during the Nigel years has morphed into the kind of 'We want it now!" mentality those mongs up the road used to have under Uncle Fawaz (ahhhh, remember those good ol' days).  With continued under par performances & results the public will vote with their restless feet, and crowds will drop along with revenue...  

We are doing ok with Cocu so what’s the problem. 
 

This article is just sensationalism 

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Curtains

Curtains

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7 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

those who rear there heads on here and on Twitter after we've drawn against the likes of Barnsley...

Yes went to Barnsley with the loyal Derby Fans.  The Mount was a nice pub near the ground. Lost count of the times I’ve watched the Rams at Barnsley.  Hope you went and if you did hope you enjoyed the evening lol. 

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RamNut

RamNut

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its true that the income isn't shared very fairly, but we knew that was coming when the premier league broke away. And that showed where the loyalties of the f.a. were.

on the other hand clubs have overpaid - and continue to overpay - on wages.

£1.5m a year for playing in the second divsion (championship)?

barmy.

 

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Raich Carter

Raich Carter

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16 hours ago, Gritty said:

I hope you're right.  But I think there is a chance we're in trouble next season

On what basis would Mel allow that? He’s been battling it for a few years and the stadium sale looks like it gives us headroom. Just can’t see Mel doing all that to just move the problem 12 months on. 

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Gritty

Gritty

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1 hour ago, Raich Van Carter said:

On what basis would Mel allow that? He’s been battling it for a few years and the stadium sale looks like it gives us headroom. Just can’t see Mel doing all that to just move the problem 12 months on. 

The stadium sale gives us headroom for 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20.  That headroom goes away next year

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europia

europia

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22 hours ago, RamNut said:

True but i doubt whether we could do what jim did now.

he already had quite a few players from roy macs team that finished around 7th from memory ...hoult, nicholson, yates, wassall, carsley, simpson, gabbiadini, sturridge, trollope, 

Jim had another two big players - craig short and paul williams - who he sold for big money, bringing in flynn, rowett, van der laan, daryl powell, and ron willems.....then he subsequently signed ward, chris powell, stimac and carbon for more big money: £1.5m stimac, £800k powell, £1m for ward....what would they cost now? At least 5x that? Thats £16.5-17m

so assumng that we are losing 13m just on wages, we'd then have to spend another £17m - a total of £30m in one season?

we'd get busted.

 

 

 

Yes it has to be said that even having a wealthy, benevolent owner isn't enough. The financial side of things is hampering our hopes of ever getting promoted. Looking back more recently than the Jim Smith days, we really needed to win under Mac at Wembley v QPR. That was our big chance really. 

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Jourdan

Jourdan

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I think a mid-table rebuild is a fairly reasonable expectation at this point and something the fans would understand if the club laid out a clear plan or a vision for the future, and most importantly gave a manager time and scope to work under those conditions.

If signings in the Duane Holmes mould became the norm - small fee, promising player climbing the ranks, at a good age with a lot of upside - no-one would complain. I think it's those kinds of signings that fans appreciate and get encouraged by.

But let's face it, we'd probably have to overhaul entire departments and change the whole club ethos to make that happen. Something that requires time. Similarly, if the club is going to adopt a 'sign - develop - sell' strategy, then realistically it's probably 2-3 years away from happening too.

Let's be honest, no-one is going to take the idea that we are dialling things down very seriously. What about searching high and low for further investment, appointing Philip Cocu, bringing Wayne Rooney to the Championship, and spending up to £10 million on a former Arsenal academy player who has only looked the part in League 1 says this is a club that is (or is about to be) treading water? We are still very much trying to compete.

The reason why I don't see us attempting to change tack is because I don't think we can really rely on that strategy at the moment. Fans' expectations are too high. We were in the bottom six for a few days and people were ready to send the manager back home on a ferry with his Eredivisie medals and a gift wrapped electric shaver in tow.

I also think that the club isn't really developing players to the extent that we could do what Brentford, Bristol City, Preston, Barnsley et al do on a consistent basis.

Look at our recent signings for significant money - Bielik, Marriott, Waghorn, Malone, Jozefzoon, Lawrence. It's probably close to £30 million we have spent. I think we will be struggling to get a significant return on any of them, personally. Marriott is in and out of the team. Lawrence is inconsistent. Bielik seems one violent sneeze away from a serious injury. The other three have probably reached the peak of their values as they are good but not exceptional Championship players in their late twenties.

In my mind, Jayden Bogle is our only genuine asset. The one player you could actually see teams paying £10-15 million for. If we want the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Lowe, Mitchell-Lawson, Whittaker and Buchanan to go in the same direction, this will take time.

You can't change a club's ethos overnight.

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angieram

angieram

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I agree with a lot of what you have said above @Jourdan and it does seem that our first team situation at the moment is a curious mixture of trying to reign in the expectations and having one more push at it with the more experienced players.

What gives me hope is the excellent progress that our younger players are making at their level - our under 23s clearly benefitting this season from the players who did so well at under 18 level last year.

It does seem that most of them aren't quite ready for tough championship football yet. I would still like to see a couple more of them on the pitch at times as that is the best place to learn and adapt to the challenges they will face there.

However,  I am not sure our fans will give them the time to do this.  I am quite disappointed at the way a significant element of our support treat our players already. 

I feel the club is working towards changing its ethos but our fan base needs to get on board too if it is genuinely going to work.

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Spanish

Spanish

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3 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree with a lot of what you have said above @Jourdan and it does seem that our first team situation at the moment is a curious mixture of trying to reign in the expectations and having one more push at it with the more experienced players.

What gives me hope is the excellent progress that our younger players are making at their level - our under 23s clearly benefitting this season from the players who did so well at under 18 level last year.

It does seem that most of them aren't quite ready for tough championship football yet. I would still like to see a couple more of them on the pitch at times as that is the best place to learn and adapt to the challenges they will face there.

However,  I am not sure our fans will give them the time to do this.  I am quite disappointed at the way a significant element of our support treat our players already. 

I feel the club is working towards changing its ethos but our fan base needs to get on board too if it is genuinely going to work.

I don't think anybody can tread water for more than a season irrespective of the fans expectations.  There are exceptions but ,mostly, relegated sides will return with significant more resources to cope in a lower league; every year will get worse as parachute payments increase.  There are no guarantees but having wealth is likely to be an advantage.  If anything finishing 10th with noting to play for in the last 2 matches would give chance to properly prepare for the coming season for once and represents treading water for me.

My view on P&S is that if we don't prudently prepare for the end of players contracts we will be faced with another critical moment.  I've always seen P&S risk being related to poor amortisation.  We kicked the can down the road once it can't happen again.  Every 3 year headroom figure should be used to amortise player values as far as audit will require.  We need to sell early any that do not meet expectations, Zoon.

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