Is this the most undercooked preseason you can remember?

[Duracell]

I’m not talking about performances or signings here - I’m talking about the amount of games we’ve played, who we’ve played against, and where we’ve played them.

This pre-season feels completely wrong. Compare it to last year and the steady increase in competitiveness and minutes for the first team players, and this is absolutely nowhere near.

We played an American pub team, we then played Bristol City at a sport similar to association football but not employing the proper rules, a decent run and sensible run out at Burton before the weirdly-timed Girona friendly with the kids/fringe players who had no other friendliest to get fit in and then the trip to Rangers.

It’s frustrating and I really hope fans realise that it will be harsh to judge Cocu in the first few games with such an under cooked group of players.

 

[Sparkle]

It does fell all rather strange

[RamNut]

Its been a badly planned mess.

add to that, everyone was out of the country for two critical weeks of the transfer window. 

Still.....Frank had a nice holiday.

[FindernRam]

The friendlies must have been planned months before Franks departure so it must be assumed he bought into the schedule unless he knew about Chelsea way back. Maybe his inexperience showing through!

[cosmic]

4 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Its been a badly planned mess.

add to that, everyone was out of the country for two critical weeks of the transfer window. 

Still.....Frank had a nice holiday.

Yeah but it was important to maintain a healthy relationship with Chelsea so we could get all these new loan sign...

Oh.

[TuffLuff]

14 minutes ago, Duracell said:

I’m not talking about performances or signings here - I’m talking about the amount of games we’ve played, who we’ve played against, and where we’ve played them.

This pre-season feels completely wrong. Compare it to last year and the steady increase in competitiveness and minutes for the first team players, and this is absolutely nowhere near.

We played an American pub team, we then played Bristol City at a sport similar to association football but not employing the proper rules, a decent run and sensible run out at Burton before the weirdly-timed Girona friendly with the kids/fringe players who had no other friendliest to get fit in and then the trip to Rangers.

It’s frustrating and I really hope fans realise that it will be harsh to judge Cocu in the first few games with such an under cooked group of players.

 

Losing that play off final always puts you at a disadvantage in terms of preseason I think. If you win, you don’t really lose any time in your preparations. 

Essentially you are behind every other championship side so you are a less attractive proposition in terms of being a challenge for others

 

[cheron85]

12 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Losing that play off final always puts you at a disadvantage in terms of preseason I think. If you win, you don’t really lose any time in your preparations. 

Essentially you are behind every other championship side so you are a less attractive proposition in terms of being a challenge for others

I've ranted about this several times over the years - I just think the top 3 should go up - The losing playoff final team is at a massive disadvantage as they can't start their preparations for the following season having not know which league they're in until 2 weeks after everyone else

[Igor Igor Whats the Score?]

Fully agree with all comments above.

[thekingofbuxton]

Huddersfield (our opening weekend opponents) have played 6 games in pre season with the early matches being used to get 'squad' minutes and the note recent seeing the likely first team players get more game time. 

They have played a variety of different teams and haven't lost.

Of course their results pre season will mean very little if we beat them next Monday,  however as things stand I fear that they may be better prepared for the season than we are.

Does anyone know if we are playing any 'behind closed doors' fixtures etc..? Less than 2 full games for our first team seems a bit short in preparation? 

[Ambitious]

This pre-season has been tough going in lots of ways: 

1) The amount of games we've played. It wouldn't be bad if we had a core squad of 20 players, but due to injuries and lack of senior signings, we've integrated a record amount of youth team players. It means the youth team players have had as many minutes as the more senior players for our first team, clearly with the view of having to rely on them from the off. I don't think the original plan was to play the kids against Girona, but it fell that way. 

2) The lack of signings. It's been said from every corner in Derby, by every fan in Derby. Initially, the problem was the Chelsea interest, followed by Lampard leaving. It was then Cocu going straight from Holland to USA to take the pre-season tour and to assess the squad. Now, the issue is waiting on other teams to finish their pre-season tour. I personally think we've been very wasteful with our time. We know our targets, we know our budget. We should've found this easy and if we make 2 or 14 signings over the next two weeks, it just means that we're going to struggle to rely on them early on as they integrate into the squad.

3) injuries. We've lost 2x key players to injury - Marriott & Holmes. We've had Carson & Wisdom miss the entirety of pre-season, two players capable and looking to push for a first team place - the latter at CB. Thorne broke down almost immediately after playing a game. Forsyth still not ready. 

All of the above mixed in with a new manager trying to put his own philosophy on the game. It's almost a perfect storm. I don't necessarily buy into the fact that we're definitely going to have a slow start, but I can't argue that we have left ourselves short.   

[TuffLuff]

17 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I've ranted about this several times over the years - I just think the top 3 should go up - The losing playoff final team is at a massive disadvantage as they can't start their preparations for the following season having not know which league they're in until 2 weeks after everyone else

I think the system needs looking at, then again I’m not sure if I have a definitive answer (personally I love the play offs).

Only way I can think is to give that side the first week off, and essentially play that game in hand on a random midweek. Essentially this season it would have given us an extra week to get another friendly in, but then is another team at an advantage for essentially getting an extra week of pre season? 

Dunno, think we just need to accept it’ll be a slow start up until the first international break!

[therealhantsram]

4 minutes ago, thekingofbuxton said:

Huddersfield (our opening weekend opponents) have played 6 games in pre season with the early matches being used to get 'squad' minutes and the note recent seeing the likely first team players get more game time. 

They have played a variety of different teams and haven't lost.

Of course their results pre season will mean very little if we beat them next Monday,  however as things stand I fear that they may be better prepared for the season than we are.

Does anyone know if we are playing any 'behind closed doors' fixtures etc..? Less than 2 full games for our first team seems a bit short in preparation? 

In Cocu's post match interview yesterday, he specifically said no more games, a week to prepare and focus on tactics.

[Mick Brolly]

Or

[EnigmaRam]

[LazloW]

It does all seem a bit low key and disjointed (even without the Lampard issue disrupting the pre- pre-season training period, I agree about the number and type of games we have played).  It may make no difference at all to how we start, but I think it will be slow- particularly as he will need to integrate any new signings we do make without any friendlies to do it in.  Feels a bit unsatisfactory, but not PC's fault and I hope that if we don't start well, the fans recognise the context of all this and have a little patience.  The constant changing of managers (the last two not Mel's fault either) and the consequences of FFP were bound to hit at some point... this season might be that point!  I just hope that PC shows himself to be a good manager and - if this is a true 'season of transition' - he sticks around to see it through (and the fans give him the chance to do that). 

[Alph]

Yeah. 

I might have been wrong to slate Frank for not being back for the first day and maybe nobody at Derby could do much more to ensure the players came back to a management team. But they should have come back to a manager. 

Then the first time Cocu and Co meets everyone is in Florida. He'd had no chance to evaluate the players and work with the folks at Moor Farm. He may have had a pre season plan but it wouldn't have been as detailed as Frank would have had. Already a week behind and now he's shaking hands with them for the first time. 

The games start and the first Bristol game is a farce. Not our fault but we are now disrupted again. What real benefit did we get out of that? The "it's not safe to play so just let all the players hang around on the pitch keeping warm" logic. The next meeting is the next day in what seems like a "fancy a kick around tomorrow"

Back home and then Cocu and Co can start looking for somewhere to live. Can meet all the people at Moor Farm. So now it starts how it should have started a fortnight ago. 

Burton was a good. Not because we won but because it was at the end of a weeks work at Moor Farm where Cocu has been able to work in the environment he will have all season, sort his personal life and communicate with all staff that make up this club. 

Girona was fine. More days to prepare and build. But we've got a game set for Sunday so now you've got to be careful not to drain too many players. So Girona and Rangers kind of block each other out. 

It feels Florida has got in the way? Sarasota were only a workout. 

Probably would have been ok for Lampard because him and the squad are picking back up where they left off.

For Cocu I can only see one positive from Florida and that's the time spent with players to get to know them personally. But other than that everything looked wrong about it. 10 days out there. 1 spent on Sarasota, 2 wasted kickabouts v Bristol. 

It was a pre season for a man who knows his squad. 

Performances and results aren't a massive issue. It's about getting the graft in. About experimenting and doing the homework. For a new manager I think it's fine if it doesn't all click on the pitch. 

The worry is that between flying out to Florida, playing no games for 10 days and then 3 in 5. Flying home, settling into a new country and a new work environment, 1 game at the end of the week then 2 more games at the end of the next. Just seems like he's not had the time to really get stuck into the players and see what they need and what they can do. 

I mean wouldn't it be better for both the Girona and Rangers games if Rangers was tomorrow?

[RoyMac5]

39 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I've ranted about this several times over the years - I just think the top 3 should go up - The losing playoff final team is at a massive disadvantage as they can't start their preparations for the following season having not know which league they're in until 2 weeks after everyone else

On the other hand, how soon would most teams season be over without the play-offs? We could have just accepted we weren't making top 3 and lost a few more then we wouldn't have had the PO final, so much better?

[cheron85]

24 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

Only way I can think is to give that side the first week off, and essentially play that game in hand on a random midweek. Essentially this season it would have given us an extra week to get another friendly in, but then is another team at an advantage for essentially getting an extra week of pre season? 

I think it's about the preparation overall though - Things like our manager was on holiday later because he'd been working 2 weeks further into summer than others - We're 2 weeks behind everyone in the transfer window - We're now even further behind with signings etc

I think it's reassuring to see that Cocu isn't being forced to make Lampard/Mel chosen signings though - The lack of movement on transfers says (to me) he's being given his own time to work things out with the squad, what he needs and where he wants to go for those signings

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

On the other hand, how soon would most teams season be over without the play-offs? We could have just accepted we weren't making top 3 and lost a few more then we wouldn't have had the PO final, so much better?

There is that - It does make the season more exciting - And losing playoff finalists have traditionally done pretty well if returning to the playoffs the next year so ?‍♂️

[RadioactiveWaste]

My thoughts are the preseason was obviously planned by the Lampard team. It may well have been OK for a continuation, as a lot of things would've carried over and just needing getting back up to speed.

However, after the Chelsea drama, what we needed to do in preseason was a lot more, and we had less time, but stuck to what we'd arranged. I don't know his feasible changing the plans would have been, but circumstances have clearly not helped.

 

[Srg]

I mean we have played the exact same number of games as last year.