Trouble ahead?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

The big Prem clubs brought the rules in to stop others from doing a Man City and pushing them out of the Champions league places.

Think you've nailed it here.

The fact that nearly all clubs are making losses but they call it profitability and sustainability is a joke.

The only things that should be regulated are wage levels and debt levels.

[ram59]

11 hours ago, SimonBHA said:

Huh?! Our chairman paid for the ground, we don't rent it off anyone.

So it was OK for Brighton to do it, but not Derby? 

Interestingly, a brief look at the Amex's accounts show that Brighton are paying £1m per year rent for the next 120 years even though the ground running costs are over £6m. Like I've said about MM, it's another way of circumventing ffp and subsidising a club to the tune of over £5m in this case. 

There is much debate over the value of Pride Park at £80m, the Amex is valued at £147m on their books. They also have debts, mainly to linked companies, of £174m. So on the face of it, the Amex owes £27m more than its 'worth' and is happy to run at a loss of more than £5m a year and increasing over the next 120 years, hardly a good business model. 

As I've said before, big business uses creative accounting to suit their purposes. The outcry of what Derby have done, which is far from unique, is ridiculous. 

[The Key Club King]

15 hours ago, Abu Derby said:

It’s the parachute payments that should be looked at, never mind FFP. They ought to be reduced in order to permit a more level playing field. These payments are to help relegated clubs transition into the Championship. Instead they are being used recklessly to try and buy their way back up. Stoke City is a prime example. It’s nobody’s fault but their own if this strategy fails. 

This is true but what is interesting is how often this spending fails. Despite the enormous gap between PL and EFL, the teams that are promoted and relegated are just as varied as before the TV money went up so high in the PL. Obviously this is a big driver of EFL clubs overspending in the first place to compete. 

Until the TV money gap between PL and EFL is addressed, overspending and debt will continue despite attempts such as FFP to stop it.  

[SimonBHA]

31 minutes ago, ram59 said:

So it was OK for Brighton to do it, but not Derby? 

Eh? I didn't say that? I just replied to the comment saying Brighton didn't own their ground. There's no outcry from me here. I could respond about our finances, but to be honest I really can't be bothered to wade into some debate I had no intention of stirring up. My apologies and I will slink away!

[SimonBHA]

31 minutes ago, ram59 said:

So it was OK for Brighton to do it, but not Derby? 

Eh? I didn't say that? I just replied to the comment saying Brighton didn't own their ground. There's no outcry from me here. I could respond about our finances, but to be honest I really can't be bothered to wade into some debate I had no intention of stirring up. My apologies and I will slink away!

[RadioactiveWaste]

3 minutes ago, SimonBHA said:

Eh? I didn't say that? I just replied to the comment saying Brighton didn't own their ground. There's no outcry from me here. I could respond about our finances, but to be honest I really can't be bothered to wade into some debate I had no intention of stirring up. My apologies and I will slink away!

Take care and hope to see you next time there's mutual interest. One of our helpful visiting posters whenever we play BHA.

[ram59]

7 minutes ago, SimonBHA said:

Eh? I didn't say that? I just replied to the comment saying Brighton didn't own their ground. There's no outcry from me here. I could respond about our finances, but to be honest I really can't be bothered to wade into some debate I had no intention of stirring up. My apologies and I will slink away!

Sorry, I should have made it clear that my comments were not directed at you, but all those criticising Derby for doing something that Brighton has being doing for a number of years. 

Originally, I was trying to say that because of the sale of our ground, DCFC's accounts show a current 'cash' asset of tens of millions of pounds, whereas a number of other clubs who rent their grounds don't. And despite this asset, they will be treated the same way as a club who may be tens of millions in debt. Ffp is flawed. 

 

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

There is much debate over the value of Pride Park at £80m, the Amex is valued at £147m on their books.

To be fair - The Amex is a lot closer to the beach

[Van der MoodHoover]

57 minutes ago, SimonBHA said:

Eh? I didn't say that? I just replied to the comment saying Brighton didn't own their ground. There's no outcry from me here. I could respond about our finances, but to be honest I really can't be bothered to wade into some debate I had no intention of stirring up. My apologies and I will slink away!

Sounds as though its quite similar to what we have set up here in that BHA FC are paying rent for the ground (so don't actually own it) but quite probably the chairman DOES own the ground through a separate corporate vehicle, which helps the football club as long as they have a decent lease?

either way, still one of my favourite in terms of design and facilities, even if the transport links are a bit tiresome....

[Mihangel]

1 hour ago, HantsRam said:

Sounds as though its quite similar to what we have set up here in that BHA FC are paying rent for the ground (so don't actually own it) but quite probably the chairman DOES own the ground through a separate corporate vehicle, which helps the football club as long as they have a decent lease?

either way, still one of my favourite in terms of design and facilities, even if the transport links are a bit tiresome....

Actually, the University of Brighton and Brighton and Hove Council own the freehold, they receive rent from the club. The pile of bricks that was paid for mostly by the owner with honourable mentions to American Express and other grants is owned by one of the holding companies, very similar to, erm, DCFC.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I just wonder with Mel trying to challenge the EFL with regards to the tv deals, talking of breaking away etc whether we as a club has brushed up a few people in high places the wrong way and the second we may appear to be doing something that isn't quite ethical (but not against the rules) they are jumping all over us.

West Ham fielded an illegal player, who without would have been relegated, they should have been hit with a 30 point deduction and Sheff United reinstated to the prem...did that happen? Nope, a 10 million pound fine which was compensated a few years later with a ready made stadium.

QPR broke FFP rules massively, which gained an unfair advantage against the likes of Derby and made it to the prem. Did they receive the 9 point deduction that Brum received? Nope, a fine and a transfer embargo.

I can see Derby being made an example of, if there is any wrong doing found.

 

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I just wonder with Mel trying to challenge the EFL with regards to the tv deals, talking of breaking away etc whether we as a club has brushed up a few people in high places the wrong way and the second we may appear to be doing something that isn't quite ethical (but not against the rules) they are jumping all over us.

West Ham fielded an illegal player, who without would have been relegated, they should have been hit with a 30 point deduction and Sheff United reinstated to the prem...did that happen? Nope, a 10 million pound fine which was compensated a few years later with a ready made stadium.

QPR broke FFP rules massively, which gained an unfair advantage against the likes of Derby and made it to the prem. Did they receive the 9 point deduction that Brum received? Nope, a fine and a transfer embargo.

I can see Derby being made an example of, if there is any wrong doing found.

 

birmingham getting docked 9 points, no impact on their season

[Van der MoodHoover]

33 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

Actually, the University of Brighton and Brighton and Hove Council own the freehold, they receive rent from the club. The pile of bricks that was paid for mostly by the owner with honourable mentions to American Express and other grants is owned by one of the holding companies, very similar to, erm, DCFC.

well there we go - even one step removed from where we are. nothing to see here i would suggest ....

[Mihangel]

1 hour ago, HantsRam said:

well there we go - even one step removed from where we are. nothing to see here i would suggest ....

Quite - Certainly shouldn't be lectured to by fans of a club whose contribution to the build cost of their stadium is a grand total of zero.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, ShoreRam said:

Quite - Certainly shouldn't be lectured to by fans of a club whose contribution to the build cost of their stadium is a grand total of zero.

Good luck in the relegation scrap. Hope you get out of it.?

[Woodley Ram]

On 16/04/2019 at 23:37, BuckTaylor64 said:

The meeting of EFL clubs next week in Nottingham will see Middlesbrough Owner Steve Gibson pushing for investigations into the finances of Derby County, Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday.

 

He is basically implying that the three clubs are bending the rules to apply to profitability and sustainability rules which replaced Financial Fair Play.

 

If the clubs are in breach they could face one or more of the following sanctions.

 

a) Points deduction of up to 12 points.

b) A large fine

c) Banned from competing in the play-offs

d) Banned from being promoted

e) Transfer Embargo

 

Whatever the outcome, I think it's fair to say that rules will be tightened to prevent a repeat of owners selling themselves the ground.

 

Derby County are in a financial mess. Ignore those who are praising Mel Morris's claimed genius actions, the fact are!

 

a) The club is suffering heavy losses financially.

b) The wage bill need cutting by at least 70%

c) The club now has very few assets to offer interested parties that may want to invest or buy the club. Unless the Stadium was sold back for a nominal fee.

d) The manager will have tied hands and it will take some real magic in wheeling and dealing in the transfer market to keep us competing in the division.

e) If the owner were to sell it's likely that he would have to write off much of the money that has been loaned to the club.

f) Prospective buyers could sit and wait until there is a danger of the club going into administration before making an offer.

 

All in all the team needs promotion and the riches of the Premier League, if we are allowed to even take part in the play offs after next weeks meeting. 

There is a big misconception pointed out my many of here, that every year we have spent big, as others have already said, apart from one mad year we haven’t, in fact for most years we have been cost negative. Our problem is our wages, which is similar to the majority of clubs. If we had a league of teams wages v income, i doubt that we would be anywhere near the top of it.

I think that Gibson is trying to get some shots in early as it would not surprise me his team have problems with wages next year.  If we are looking at 3 teams finances then we should look at them all.

I do agree with FFP and understand the need for it , but lets look at every bodies not just because someone decides to pick 3 clubs that he thinks (and think is the only word he can use) are cheating.

[BuckTaylor64]

On 17/04/2019 at 08:39, DRBee said:

Recycled garbage and perhaps wishful thinking on your part. Perhaps little more can be expected from a 'new' poster.

Wishful thinking? Garbage? OK then show me the queue to buy our club? Morris has clearly stated that he wants his money back! Would be willing for payback over a period of time! He's in cuckoo land if he thinks he's getting it all back. 

Now go take a look at all companies attached to Derby and add up all of the debt! 

[Mazzaram]

On 18/04/2019 at 17:08, Woodley Ram said:

There is a big misconception pointed out my many of here, that every year we have spent big, as others have already said, apart from one mad year we haven’t, in fact for most years we have been cost negative. Our problem is our wages, which is similar to the majority of clubs. If we had a league of teams wages v income, i doubt that we would be anywhere near the top of it.

I think that Gibson is trying to get some shots in early as it would not surprise me his team have problems with wages next year.  If we are looking at 3 teams finances then we should look at them all.

I do agree with FFP and understand the need for it , but lets look at every bodies not just because someone decides to pick 3 clubs that he thinks (and think is the only word he can use) are cheating.

Any news on how this meeting went? Wasn't it scheduled for today? Does anyone have any news?

[RamNut]

56 minutes ago, Mazzaram said:

Any news on how this meeting went? Wasn't it scheduled for today? Does anyone have any news?

On Wednesday, i think. 

[BuckTaylor64]

Hopefully we will get away with it, but any future purchases will have to be funded by sales! People may laugh at the moment, but anyone who thinks this club is in a good position financially is seriously deluded and in for a massive shock. Years of wasteful spending is coming back to bite us! We will need Frank to pull off some quality loans again next season should we not go up!