BaaLocks Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: Helping people who have fallen on hard times is one thing & I don't think anyone on here would begrudge helping those who need a bit of help to get back on their feet - or examples like the homeless girl you mentioned. What you've chosen to ignore is that there are a large number of people who are quite content doing nothing & accepting everything they are "entitled to" and these are the ones who need the stick rather than the carrott. Not everyone is an opressed victim. I've never seen Benefits Street but see plenty of it with my own eyes and especially through Mrs Wolfie's line of work (Social Worker) I don't ignore it but I think the crux lies in three considerations. 1: Are they a 'large' number? I do think the demonization of certain types of people through programmes like Benefits Street does not help. I appreciate your good lady sees this on a daily basis, but it still holds true. 2: If we agree that we have some who play the system then do we structure to prevent them, recognising we will impact many who will suffer as a result. 3: Or do we focus on making sure the disadvantaged have every realistic opportunity to better themselves, recognising some will take advantage. For me, it's very easy to think you take the first of these paths. How many people shaking a Cancer Research tin outsdie a supermarket are doing it because they lost a loved one to cancer? My point is that it matters most when it is likely to affect you - we need to find ways to have it matter even when it won't happen to us but maybe to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: What was the answer to this out of interest? Think the posters answers must be blocked to me. Twas another FACT that turned out not to be a fact. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, BaaLocks said: Last night I went out for dinner with the family. We ordered too much and got some boxed up to take home. On the way back to the car I saw a young girl sleeping on the street so offered her the box, which she was grateful for. I don't know what happened to her to end up there last night on the street but I can assure you it was piggin' cold and she most certainly was not there because she was one of your fecking idle tossers. Didnt we have this discussion a while ago? You were clearly being disrespectful and should have given her money instead. Or at least I think that was the concensious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: https://fullfact.org/immigration/6-million-GP-registrations/ Are we sure that it is underfunding that is crippling the NHS? As far I can see, the link you posted leads to a fact checker that does a decent job of debunking the headline figure. It does seem to get raised on here quite often that NHS funding problems are mainly due to immigration or that increasing NHS costs are mainly due to immigration so I did a quick internet search to look for any evidence based research by reputable organisations. I found that over the past few years there’s been a Kings Fund report, a Nuffield trust report, and a more wide ranging University College London/Lancet commission review and report. All I’ve read so far indicates that the impact of immigration on the NHS is small compared to other factors such as rising costs/wages, non-immigrants getting older, new technology/expanded treatments. The UCL/Lancet commission report states that the rhetoric on this topic is political and not evidence based. These reports acknowledge gaps in the data base, the need for more research, and they obviously can’t answer every question about the future – but the evidence here seems to point to immigration not being a major factor when it comes to NHS funding. So, that’s what came up. I didn’t set out to deliberately select these particular reports or deliberately exclude other reports that might have come to different conclusions. Given the reputation of the organisations involved I’m sure that if the data had showed otherwise they’d have reported it. I’ve added some links below. The first two are links to a couple of news articles that have summarised this material (which I found useful). Also I’ve added links to the specific reports/organisations so people can follow up if wanted. If I’ve missed any evidence based research by reputable organisations on this topic then maybe someone could post up a link. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/high-immigration-nhs-crisis https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-immigration-health-issues-birth-waiting-times-infection-children-pregnant-unhealthy-a8669441.html https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/verdict/what-do-we-know-about-impact-immigration-nhs https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-facts-eu-immigration-and-pressure-on-the-nhs#are-eu-immigrants-driving-current-pressure-on-the-nhs https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(18)32114-7.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Didnt we have this discussion a while ago? You were clearly being disrespectful and should have given her money instead. Or at least I think that was the concensious? Ha - good point, I'd forgotten that exchange. Please don't go quoting me on what I said before, I struggle to remember what I had for breakfast these days (though I do know it wasn't restaurant left overs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Twas another FACT that turned out not to be a fact. FACT. What we need is a Big Fact Hunt. Like Boris.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Twas another FACT that turned out not to be a fact. FACT. Judging by the choices available … … whatever the result of the election is - the country will be FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Its a good job Jeremy plans to build all these affordable homes as it looks like a lot of renters will be looking for somewhere else to live as landlords choose to sell up because of the proposed second home tax changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Its a good job Jeremy plans to build all these affordable homes as it looks like a lot of renters will be looking for somewhere else to live as landlords choose to sell up because of the proposed second home tax changes. No bad thing if a lot of (bad) landlords sell up because their gravy train of exploiting those who cannot afford their own home becomes suddenly less financially attractive. There has to be a rebalancing in the housing market somehow. It's fundamentally knackered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Its a good job Jeremy plans to build all these affordable homes as it looks like a lot of renters will be looking for somewhere else to live as landlords choose to sell up because of the proposed second home tax changes. I thought the buy to let market had already had some tax reliefs withdrawn? Why were there tax reliefs given in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: I thought the buy to let market had already had some tax reliefs withdrawn? Why were there tax reliefs given in the first place? It was the tax before mortgage that was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: No bad thing if a lot of (bad) landlords sell up because their gravy train of exploiting those who cannot afford their own home becomes suddenly less financially attractive. There has to be a rebalancing in the housing market somehow. It's fundamentally knackered There are a lot of private landlords who have a single property that could be affected. I don't understand why investing in your future is a bad thing. People seem to find it offensive. I will either pass the cost onto my tenants, which is not good for them or i will sell up, which is also not good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 hours ago, BaaLocks said: Last night I went out for dinner with the family. We ordered too much and got some boxed up to take home. On the way back to the car I saw a young girl sleeping on the street so offered her the box, What makes you think I haven't done the same.What do you want a medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 5 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: If I've not been blocked, could you explain your logic behind this? You are blocked but I had a peek and here goes. Your question was why reducing employee taxes benefits employers. YEAR ONE: Mike earns £50k but pay 20% tax so takes home £40k. In the election the winning party agrees to not charge any tax on the first £10k YEAR TWO: Mike earns £50k but pays 20% only on £40k so takes home £42k. Mike is happy as he is £2k better off. Indeed everyone in the country earns an extra £2k as it is a blanket deal. Tax back to the government is down by £8k. YEAR THREE: Mike was expecting a pay rise of 3% but his employers tell him that his real take home pay has gone up by £2k so in real terms he's better off so no pay rises this year. Mike also finds out that as he has more money in his pocket (Keynesian economics) the price of his weekly shop has gone up by 2% due to general inflation. So Mike is effectively around 5% worse off than he would have been. Employers are 3% more profitable (wrt to Mike), 2% more profitable (wrt inflation). Tax back to the government is down by £8k. YEAR FOUR: And so on..... YEAR FIVE: Mike's wife is baking cookies for the school fayre because they can't afford books for the children to write on and have their funds cut by £32k in the past four years (OK - a bit dramatic but intended for illustration) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Paul71 said: There are a lot of private landlords who have a single property that could be affected. I don't understand why investing in your future is a bad thing. People seem to find it offensive. I will either pass the cost onto my tenants, which is not good for them or i will sell up, which is also not good for them. I guess if loads of people like you sell though there will be a lot more houses for sale, bringing the price down and making it cheaper for people who can currently only afford to rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, King Kevin said: What makes you think I haven't done the same.What do you want a medal? I would like to hope you have not been out for dinner with my family. Sure, send a medal over - thx for the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I guess if loads of people like you sell though there will be a lot more houses for sale, bringing the price down and making it cheaper for people who can currently only afford to rent. Quite possibly yes. I suppose the downside of that is it could push a lot of single property homeowners into negative equity. I can't believe that would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: You are blocked but I had a peek and here goes. Your question was why reducing employee taxes benefits employers. YEAR ONE: Mike earns £50k but pay 20% tax so takes home £40k. In the election the winning party agrees to not charge any tax on the first £10k YEAR TWO: Mike earns £50k but pays 20% only on £40k so takes home £42k. Mike is happy as he is £2k better off. Indeed everyone in the country earns an extra £2k as it is a blanket deal. Tax back to the government is down by £8k. YEAR THREE: Mike was expecting a pay rise of 3% but his employers tell him that his real take home pay has gone up by £2k so in real terms he's better off so no pay rises this year. Mike also finds out that as he has more money in his pocket (Keynesian economics) the price of his weekly shop has gone up by 2% due to general inflation. So Mike is effectively around 5% worse off than he would have been. Employers are 3% more profitable (wrt to Mike), 2% more profitable (wrt inflation). Tax back to the government is down by £8k. YEAR FOUR: And so on..... YEAR FIVE: Mike's wife is baking cookies for the school fayre because they can't afford books for the children to write on and have their funds cut by £32k in the past four years (OK - a bit dramatic but intended for illustration) Literally never heard of this happening. Is it even a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Its a good job Jeremy plans to build all these affordable homes as it looks like a lot of renters will be looking for somewhere else to live as landlords choose to sell up because of the proposed second home tax changes. As Liz Truss will tell you, planning to build the homes is the easy bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said: As Liz Truss will tell you, planning to build the homes is the easy bit. Yep that one worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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